Vaginal Fantasy Book Club discussion

Sometimes I get frustrated reading online book reviews since, of course, a main part of people's reviews center around their opinion of the hero or heroine. I often read conflicting complaints e.g. "this heroine was too [perfect | strong | wish-fulfilling]" or "this heroine was too [weak | flawed | doormat-like]". I get frustrated, with a sense that a hero/heroine can’t win either way.

Bella from Twilight is an obvious example of this. Now Twilight is, admittedly, an odd duck because of the polarity it's creates. You can't mention Twilight on the Internet or in person without getting a swoon or a sneer.

But the polarity of the Twilight audience, IMO, serves to highlight that polarity doesn't serve in our evaluations of heroes/heroines; my guess is most of us prefer a blend of strengths and weaknesses. It's also interesting that one reader can find a particular blend interesting and inspiring while another person can find the same blend degrading, demeaning, boring, etc.

So what do you look for in a heroine or hero? Also – can you name any heroines or heroes that push your boundaries of what flaws and strengths are acceptable (to you) in a hero or heroine?

I don't have a set blend of strengths and weaknesses that I look for in a hero/heroine. I like empathy, caring about the well fair of others and looking at the big picture. What I don't like is arrogance, vanity, and selfishness. Characters that have pushed my boundaries are Aislynn from Wicked Lovely, Nora Dearly and Akiva. Wicked Lovely's Aislynn was the friend who falls for a guy who will get them arrested but really didn't like that she is entered into a loveless union that I DNR the book and the series. Nora was an author puppet of what the author needed for the romance to happen that conflicted with Nora's character traits. Akiva was similar to Edward in the amount of emotion or thought is giving to why they love the heroine and the selfish responses to living without the heroine.

I think the hero or herowin needs to feel natural in the context of the world and story.

I've had the same issue. Strength does not equal likability and vice versa. Also, strength can mean a lot of different things and have different interpretations. Some people thought Bella was strong for choosing to keep her baby when everyone else urged her to get rid of it to save her own life. Or they thought she was strong b/c she risked her own life for others (i.e. her mother in the first book). Overall I thought she was a fairly weak character who threw away everything else to be with the object of her infatuation. She made numerous poor decisions which only worked b/c the book was set in a paranormal space in which the normal rules don't apply. Now, that being said I enjoyed reading the series and found it entertaining. The whole point was it's a fantasy book series where the normal rules don't apply. It was a lovely escape from the daily grind and had fewer calories than Ben & Jerry's. While Bella was a bit of a pushover at least she didn't whine endlessly.

Bella didn't get on my nerves as much as other heroines who are supposedly strong. Anita Blake, I'm looking at you. A character can have a good sword arm and/or be good with guns and still be weak. Anita Blake doesn't have the strength of character to have a full relationship with any 4 of her men let alone 1. She makes us all suffer endlessly through her daddy issues until I want to bitch slap her and sentence her to 10 years hard therapy.

As for favorite heroines, I tend to like Kate Daniels in the series by Ilona Andrews. She's strong, but recognizes her weaknesses and flaws. Kate can admit mistakes and is trying to figure out daily what actions she can or can't live with. She still has a paranormal aspect and lives in a fantasy world, but she's not dumb, whiny, or immature. Ilona Andrews wrote a smart character with whom I can relate.

the heroine in succubus blues was a good example of a fringe character. I didn't like all of what she did, she hurt people she fell in love with, yet I kept rooting for her and Seth. Dresden from Dresden files annoyed me with some of his attitude towards women.

Some people theorize that Bella's character works for so many people BECAUSE she is kind of bland and not very fleshed out. It makes it easier for the reader to insert themselves in the story.

One of my favorite characters is Lyra from His Dark Materials. She is not perfect but I found her very likeable and she mostly gets by on her wits, which I loved.

A good example of a character that stretches my boundaries would be Glokta from The Blade Itself trilogy. He is war hero turned torturer who does some pretty despicable things but I still found myself sympathizing with his character.

This is such an interesting subject - I've actually blogged about it several times, because I am the kind of person who gets a little turned off by the constant cries for spunky, fiery, strong heroines as though that is the only way to be strong.

I like people who are a bit shy but who have opinions, people who have been hurt and have depth rather than a witty come-back to everything. Don't get me wrong, I like that, too, but I feel like the (very valid) complaints against weak heroines and ingenues have almost pushed writers into a corner where they have to write a certain kind of strength to be accepted into a genre and I find that really limiting and not helpful to women at all.

I don't like heroines that are so confident they just have everything under control and never doubt themselves. I can't really empathize with that ;). I like people who feel real, who are kind and gentle and who have weaknesses.

I hate it when a heroine goes full princess leia; let's say she has a mission or purpose in life, yet she puts it all in stand-by because her guy was carbonised ( or any bad thing that might put him out of the picture)

Two things that annoy me:
1) When all of the character's actions and interactions point to him being one way, but the author loyally insists he's another way.
Case in point: Marco in Night Circus. Blargh. Would complain more but don't want to give spoilers.

2) First, I have to admit this only applies to heroines, for some reason: I get super annoyed when my heroines exhibit what Renee and Sparky of Fangs for the Fantasy brilliantly refer to as "spunky agency."

Here is their post on it: http://www.fangsforthefantasy.com/201...