The Sword and Laser discussion

Did anyone watch the new SYFY show Defiance? Idid and I think I like it even though I am afraid it could go sideways pretty easy...

Defiance is full of the usual tropes and clichés.
It feels hackneyed and generic. The Pilot had some eye candy but I guess they won't be able to afford that for the rest of the season.
At least it isn't as terrible as Terra Nova or Falling Skies.
Battlestar Galactica was the last great science fiction TV show. I'm still waiting for a worthy successor.

I watched it. It was OK. Not nearly as interesting as Orphan Black has been so far.

I'll probably give them till the end of the season to see if turn it into anything good.

I watched it and enjoyed it.

It's by the same guy who did Farscape, so I got exactly what I expected. (You could exactly line up the characters from both shows.) Carrying low expectations into it -- it's a SyFy series, after all -- I didn't hate it.

Nothing is going to touch how good Orphan Black is, though.

I enjoyed it, too. Definitely a good cast with strong actresses/actors in it. Will follow it. Will stop if it turns blah.

what's Orphan Black?

Although I enjoyed the pilot, I'm worried about this whole TV/MMO synchronization. From what I read, events in the TV series will affect the MMO, but there is a possibility of events in the MMO affecting the TV series.

Will have to wait and see.

what's Orphan Black?

A great Show on BBC that follows directly after Doctor Who about Clones

J4n3 wrote: "what's Orphan Black?"

Orphan Black is the new science fiction series on BBC America. It's about a small-time street hustler named Sarah who witnesses her doppelganger commit suicide by stepping in front of a train. She soon discovers that she's one of many clones... and someone is trying to kill them.

It's three episodes in and it's brilliant. The writing is terrific. The lead actress is playing multiple parts spectacularly well. We've already met a half-dozen clones (British, American, Canadian, German, Russian) and they all feel like real people. Not a caricature in the bunch.

I thought it looked great, but the writing seemed mediocre. There's a lot of fans of Farscape though. I still think the best sf on tv is Futurama.

Tamahome wrote: "I still think the best sf on tv is Futurama."
Agreed.

Remember The Lost Room http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost... on Syfy (Scifi)?? Now that was a smart miniseries. Maybe budgets and intelligence are inversely proportional.

Michael wrote: "Defiance is full of the usual tropes and clichés.
It feels hackneyed and generic. The Pilot had some eye candy but I guess they won't be able to afford that for the rest of the season."

Most SF series start out messy. They'll spend much of the first season throwing out a tonne of ideas, most of them cliched, trying to get a handle on the story and characters. If they're lucky, they'll have a compelling story or interesting characters before season 1 ends, hopefully allowing them to be renewed. New BSG and Lost are among the few in recent years to have strong openings. If you think the basic premise is interesting and has potential, try and give it a few more episodes to find its footing.

Tamahome wrote: "Remember The Lost Room http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost... on Syfy?? Now that was a smart miniseries."

That was surprisingly good. And for me, "hidden supernatural subculture with its own rules" stories can go either way, so it's nice to find ones on the good side of the divide.

Tamahome wrote: "Remember The Lost Room http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost... on Syfy (Scifi)?? Now that was a smart miniseries. Maybe budgets and intelligence are inversely proportional."

Loved The Lost Room.

Watched Defiance and I liked it.
On the other hand I'm loving Orphan Black.

Honestly I'm just glad Syfy has put a foot into the direction of a real sf show again.

I almost gave up hope for SF on tv because they don't seem to have a long shelf life on the more mainstream networks. Exception of Falling skys.

It seems like everytime I look at Syfy one of the shows I actually wanted to watch is gone. I was so pissed when they cancled Stargate Universe just as it finally got good.

It cost 100 million dollars! http://io9.com/defiance-is-not-as-goo...

Syfy is killing me. Wysyfy? Wy?

The acting was ok but the plot was weak. I will watch one or two more to see if it improves.

Stargate Universe got good? My mileage varies. I mostly gave up on it but checked in enough to be even more annoyed by it. LOVED the final shot, though, with Eli, last one awake, looking out at the universe and smiling....

I tried watching Defiance and quit the instant they cut from the ex-marine guy leaving the fight to getting it on at the bordello. It was such a hackneyed, obvious, male fantasy, piece of junk typical jump-cut that I couldn't keep watching. If the show got better after that, I won't know because I deleted it from my DVR.

Tamahome wrote: "It cost 100 million dollars! http://io9.com/defiance-is-not-as-goo..."


It cost 100 million to develop the series and the game. That's fair, considering MMOs are expensive to make. Rift (the companies previous MMO) cost 50 million, and it died a quick death.

So, If the game fails, where does that leave the show, or vice versa? I have enough problems with the shows I like getting cancelled as it is, this seems like betting on a lame horse. Still, I'll watch it in a day or two.

Comcast is always telling fans that no original SyFy show has ever made money. Probably why they are showing a bunch of licensed Canadian programming like Lost Girl and Continuum. Which I'm fine with, those are good, quality, Saturday matinee TV.

Daran wrote: "It cost 100 million to develop the series and the game. That's fair, considering MMOs are expensive to make. Rift (the companies previous MMO) cost 50 million, and it died a quick death."

Yeah, the game part seems like the really risky part of this venture. Betting on a declining game genre that's seen far more bombs than hits, based on an original IP when games based on established brands like DC Comics and Star Wars have failed? Seems like a really expensive gimmick to me.

Tamahome wrote: "Remember The Lost Room http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost... on Syfy (Scifi)?? Now that was a smart miniseries. Maybe budgets and intelligence are inversely proportional."

The Lost Room blew me away when I saw it - definately one of my favorite SyFy (although I think they were still SciFi back then?) efforts - besides Farscape that is! ;-)

If you liked Farscape, did you like Defiance because it's the same creator?

I really liked Farscape, and am giving Defiance a chance because of the creator. So far it looks more formulaic, but I'll give it a season to improve. Babylon 5 was pretty bad the first season, but was spectacular once they got into the main plot. Farscape also got more interesting once they introduced Scorpius as a regular character...

I'm just sick of these dystopian, earth is destroyed shows. Can't anyone make a SciFi show where humans are exploring the universe, interacting on different planets, or life on earth is improved compared to moden times. I don't understand why only bleak futures are considered for TV nowadays...

Sam wrote: "I really liked Farscape, and am giving Defiance a chance because of the creator. So far it looks more formulaic, but I'll give it a season to improve. Babylon 5 was pretty bad the first season, but..."

Same for me - I'll give it a chance and series often take a couple of episodes to settle in (to include Farscape) and sometimes even a season (which rarely happens anymore these days with series getting a "make or break" requirement of often only 1/2 a season!

I remember reading somewhere once the theory that movies and shows tend to mirror the collective mood of the populace they serve so maybe the current "mood" out there is influencing the dystopian overload these days...

Ratings...and what the people want to see.But,then again Firefly lasted only one season.

Charlton wrote: "Ratings...and what the people want to see.But,then again Firefly lasted only one season."

The exception that proves the gorram rule.

Sam wrote: "I'm just sick of these dystopian, earth is destroyed shows. Can't anyone make a SciFi show where humans are exploring the universe, interacting on different planets, or life on earth is improved compared to moden times. I don't understand why only bleak futures are considered for TV nowadays... "

We had that for a long time with the shows which take place in Star Trek universe, but I'm also tired of the (post-)apocalyptic setting.

I guess Star Trek was the 'Hair Metal' days, and now with Dystopian shows we're in the 'Grunge' days.

Watched the pilot last night - it was OK. I hadn't realised there was also a game until I read this thread - makes total sense of that battle scene now.

I have to say - the one thing that "irritated" me was them salvaging from a ship hulk that had only moments before burned in from the upper atmosphere - I think things would have been a little hot for a while...??? Not to mention the whole shockwave, impact crater, forest fires etc. that would result from something that size impacting the earth.

Someone else mentioned Babylon 5 and that's what it reminded me of as well. It'll start a little shaky but once the plot gets going it has the potential to be great.

I liked TNG, DS9 and Babylon 5 from the beginning, but I was young and impressionable back then and my access to science fiction content was limited.

Globalt38 wrote: "Sam wrote: "I really liked Farscape, and am giving Defiance a chance because of the creator. So far it looks more formulaic, but I'll give it a season to improve. Babylon 5 was pretty bad the first..."

It really is a chicken and egg situation. Shows start slowly to build up the characters before hitting the main plot arc, but this in turn leads to lower ratings so they get canceled before progressing far along the arc... Only HBO/Showtime seem to be able to avoid this issue.

Michael wrote: "Sam wrote: "I'm just sick of these dystopian, earth is destroyed shows. Can't anyone make a SciFi show where humans are exploring the universe, interacting on different planets, or life on earth is..."

I wouldn't mind a Blade Runner / William Gibson type future, but this whole loss of technology theme is annoying. There is so much great scifi that could be mined. Perhaps it is just too expensive to really make a believable world with improved technology.

Sam wrote: "Globalt38 wrote: "Sam wrote: "I really liked Farscape, and am giving Defiance a chance because of the creator. So far it looks more formulaic, but I'll give it a season to improve. Babylon 5 was pr..."
More control over their shows and less to no dependence on ad revenue with paid subscribers.

Charlton wrote: "Ratings...and what the people want to see.But,then again Firefly lasted only one season."

Firefly was ahead of its time, that's all.

I don't recall seeing the multiple alien races on Earth storyline before, so that part has me somewhat interested. And the only story I remember where Earth is getting terraformed by the aliens is the War against the Chtorr series. So I see some potential here.

Another show that improved over time--Alien Nation, really got into the alien culture in later seasons.

I've heard Merlin gets better in later seasons, according to Sfsqueecast.

Tamahome wrote: "I've heard Merlin gets better in later seasons, according to Sfsqueecast."

I'd agree with that, especially after Arthur becomes King.

I think there was an awful lot of set up. More so given that the variety of alien races and the back-story. And then you have the specific characters. So it ending up feeling like a check-list of setup scenes.

I didn't feel I was watching a story about the mine-owner for example as seeing reasons why he'd got a rivalry with the mob boss for example. The fact that the out-of-town loner has slept with the Madam and clearly likes the Mayor who just happens to be her sister...

I should probably care more about this than I do and I'm not sure why I don't.

And a lot of the "SciFi-ness" - the tech, the aliens, the backstory of the spaceships, the ravaged planet - it felt more like scenery than vital to the story.

But all that could change. Here's hoping.

After watching it, I liked it. It has the exact same plot as The Rifleman, but it was still good.

I think the effects would have been better if they hadn't put game world backgrounds in every so often, also the overhead shot of the city seemed to be taken from the game.

Honestly, I don't mind the tropes if they're used to tell a good story. Babylon 5 was Lord of the Rings in Space with European diplomacy, but it was good. If the characters keep interesting me,I'll keep watching. Even if I keep mistaking the Lawkeeper for Marshal Dillon.

Don,t get me wrong,I'll keep watching.But it bothers me on how often they plug the game.

So.. Anyone tried the game out yet? I've always loved getting all the background through books or games and then getting the visual on tv or movies.

I get the same feeling of a checklist from watching game of thrones sometimes but the characters and plots are so well done it doesn't really matter.

For the most part in defiance I thought the acting was decent the effects looked cool and the setting is there enough to make a game. I think that writing something that is going to be interactive is a whole different entity from writing to fit a story from the point of view of only a few characters. So if the plot gets a little better it should be good.

I still cringe everytime they say that Earth got "terraformed" by the aliens. How do you "terraform" Terra?

Fresno Bob wrote: "I still cringe everytime they say that Earth got "terraformed" by the aliens. How do you "terraform" Terra?"

Because "Earth has been planetary engineered" doesn't have the same ring.

Fresno Bob wrote: "I still cringe everytime they say that Earth got "terraformed" by the aliens. How do you "terraform" Terra?"

I had the same reaction (mentioned in the other thread). But I expected such things, given the source.