The Pickwick Club discussion

Oliver Twist, otherwise entitled The Parish Boy's Progress, is our next group read. Obviously, as indicated by the title of this folder, this is the place where we will be discussing background information about Dickens' second novel, other resources, criticisms, historical context, derivative works, yada, yada, yada!

Please be courteous to others and avoid spoiling any part of this plot. In our Group Read discussions, you may freely discuss books we have read as a group, but avoid spoilers for any of Dickens' novels we have yet to read together. We have decided that works of that genre may be freely discussed, but I still maintain that one would not endeavor to spoil the ending or main event of even a well-known book without warning the other participants in some way, shape, or form.

Blah! Blah! Blah! Let's have fun and begin to get to the bottom of OLIVER TWIST! Much appreciation to all of you Pickwickians who are taking part!

Dickens' second novel, Oliver Twist, was published serially as was the first. Interestingly enough, in February of 1837, Bentley's Miscellany began publishing Oliver, while The Pickwick Papers were still being published until November of that year. At the time The Pickwick Papers was selling 20,000 copies per issue, 40 times what they had sold at the onset. Of further interest, Queen Victoria, who had just began her reign, called this work "excessively interesting".

Oliver Twist is believed to have had a vast impact on the diminishing of social injustice in the early to mid 1800s. In 1837, there were 428 thieves sentenced to death. Two years later, after Oliver Twist had been published, there were only 56. This is one of the topics covered in the book, and Dickens' widely read work is theorized to have helped deter capital punishment from being used for petty thieves. Throughout his life, Mr. Dickens was a staunch opponent of public execution.

In my Delphi Illustrated Classics Collected Works of Charles Dickens, the introduction to Oliver Twist says, "Dickens' portrayal of the cruel treatment of paupers in workhouses resulted in many such institutions being closed after the novel's publication." One of the things we take from this is the power Dickens displayed, who played a major part in a revolution of sorts without any violence or organized protest, and proved that, after all, the pen is not only mightier, but also more effective than the sword. It is as if the ladies and gentleman of early Victorian England would sit back and do nothing about the social injustices which were rampant everywhere during that time period, that is, until someone decided to tell the victims' story.

The second thing we will take away from young Oliver's workhouse experiences will be the correlation between the fictitious life of Oliver and the actual proceedings of the life of his creator. At the age of ten, young Charles was sent to work in a blacking factory. He would later summarize his feelings in those days, by recalling, "My early hopes of growing up to be a learned and distinguished man crushed in my breast."

Clearly, many of his main characters, such as Pip, David Copperfield, and even Little Dorrit went through the same traumatic experiences that the young man went through personally. A recurring theme in his novels is that of a young man from an unfavorable background making it his life's purpose to become a distinguished gentleman. Let's look for that trend to begin here in this work.

Jonathan wrote: "Let's have fun and begin to get to the bottom of OLIVER TWIST! Much appreciation to all of you Pickwickians who are taking part!"

Much appreciation to you, Jonathan, for having called into life this Pickwich Club, which gives us the chance of concentrating on the works of what is probably one of the most masterful and influential writers ever. Let's hope for interesting, inspired anf fruitful discussions of this novel and all the ones that will follow!

Jonathan wrote: "Oliver Twist is believed to have had a vast impact on the diminishing of social injustice in the early to mid 1800s. In 1837, there were 428 thieves sentenced to death. Two years later, after Olive..."

I, too, think that it is difficult to exaggerate the impact that some of Dickens's novels, especially the earlier ones, had on the amelioration of social wrongs and injustices. His third novel was similarly successful when it came to drawing public attention to the infamous Yorkshire schools.

Although Oliver Twist stands in the tradition of the Newgate Novel, which often romanticized the aspects of the lives of outlaw such as highwaymen, Dickens strikes an altogether new chord by focusing on the sordid details of criminal life of that time - as far, at least, as social codes of decency would allow him to -, although some of his characters in Oliver Twist are grotesquely overdrawn.

What I especially like about the book is that Dickens seldom has recourse to sermonizing, but that he uses sarcastic irony instead. Even the full title mentioned by Jonathan already signals to us that Dickens's awareness of the social roots of evil (esp. when children are exposed to it) might well be more influential than ethereal ideas of good and evil. (view spoiler)[That said, however, one still has to admit that Oliver himself seems to be strangely aloof from his surroundings, which makes him a rather unlikely boy. (hide spoiler)]

Jonathan wrote: "In my Delphi Illustrated Classics Collected Works of Charles Dickens, the introduction to Oliver Twist says, "Dickens' portrayal of the cruel treatment of paupers in workhouses resulted in many such institutions being closed after the novel's publication." One of the things we take from this is the power Dickens displayed, ..."

Which is particularly amazing since at the time he was only 25 years old and not yet that well known.

Dickens may have had more influence in changing his society than any other novelist I'm aware of. In terms of social effect, his works rank up there with Sinclair's The Jungle and Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin. But Dickens is also greatly enjoyable to read, which I don't find with either Sinclair or Stowe, who for me, at least, are more of a duty than a pleasure to read.

Everyman wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "In my Delphi Illustrated Classics Collected Works of Charles Dickens, the introduction to Oliver Twist says, "Dickens' portrayal of the cruel treatment of paupers in workhouses res..."

I would certainly agree with you with regard to Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin, which, notwithstanding its general merits, is rather stilted melodrama.

I think that Dickens's success at making his novels impulses at social reform can partly be seen in his bitter and sarcastic irony. Somehow this is more shocking to the reader than any form of sermonizing can be - for a start, you don't begin to fight against drooping eyelids when reading Dickens.

Jonathan wrote: "The second thing we will take away from young Oliver's workhouse experiences will be the correlation between the fictitious life of Oliver and the actual proceedings of the life of his creator. At ..."

Tristram wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "In my Delphi Illustrated Classics Collected Works of Charles Dickens, the introduction to Oliver Twist says, "Dickens' portrayal of the cruel treatment of paupers ..."

Thanks for the background information and discussion to launch Oliver Twist. I'll be reading the 2004 Folio Society edition with an Introduction by Peter Ackroyd. I'm also at the point in Robert Douglas-Fairhurst's Becoming Dickens where Dickens is fresh from the success of Pickwick and turning to Oliver Twist. This is my first Dickens group read and I shall keep puttering along with Pickwick concomitantly.

Hi, I just discovered the concept of Goodreads groups, and I'm looking forward to rereading Oliver Twist and all the rest! (Have to backtrack to Pickwick Papers soon, too.)

A silly personal note. When I was six, my mother, who'd never read it, decided she'd read it out loud to me. Just as I got interested, she stopped. She'd lost the book. So, when I was older, I found the book, and read it on my own. (view spoiler)[( Let's see if spoiler tags work as advertised.) Later on, she confessed that she'd gotten a little worried, read ahead, discovered the whole Nancy/Bill Sikes situation, and decided that a strategic: "Honey, I don't know where the book IS" was in my best interests. (hide spoiler)]

Elisa wrote: "Hi, I just discovered the concept of Goodreads groups, and I'm looking forward to rereading Oliver Twist and all the rest! (Have to backtrack to Pickwick Papers soon, too.)

A silly personal note. ..."

That is a funny story, and yes, your spoiler function worked. Good job and welcome to the group!

Elisa wrote: "Hi, I just discovered the concept of Goodreads groups, and I'm looking forward to rereading Oliver Twist and all the rest! (Have to backtrack to Pickwick Papers soon, too.)

A silly personal note. ..."

Hi Elisa,

that's really a funny story, but as a parent I can really understand your mother's misgivings. Whenever I tell my son one of Grimm's fairy tales, I find myself dithering between wanting to stick to the original endings and the paternal duty to find some milder form of punishment for the tale's villain. But can we really send the wolf, or the witches and giants into anti-aggression-seminars? ;-)

But can we really send the wolf, or the witches and giants into anti-aggression-seminars?

You can do anything you want in a story, if you are the one telling it. And, then, years later, a bunch of your readers will argue about the question you posed and debate that topic on a website called Goodreads!

Jonathan wrote: "But can we really send the wolf, or the witches and giants into anti-aggression-seminars?

You can do anything you want in a story, if you are the one telling it. And, then, years later, a bunch of..."

I hardly think that my feeble little fables will ever make it into public. Even my son falls asleep when I tell them to him. But then that's exactly the idea.

Anti-aggression seminar! I love it!

Back to Oliver Twist, I went looking for a free Kindle edition on Amazon, and found one that's set up with the original serial sections marked. That's exciting, because I've always wanted to reread his novels while taking note of their form in the original serial publication.

Elisa wrote: "Anti-aggression seminar! I love it!

Back to Oliver Twist, I went looking for a free Kindle edition on Amazon, and found one that's set up with the original serial sections marked. That's exciting..."

Interesting find. I was looking in the Kindle store and the only O.T. I was able to find was unavailable at the time. On my Fire, I am reading from the Delphi Illustrated Classics version. I also have a Penguin Classics paperback, but it is based on the original manuscript.

I think this might be interesting as we go along: According to the edition I'm reading, the published episodes run as follows:

Ep. 1: Ch. 1, 2 Feb. 37
Ep. 2: Ch. 3, 4 Mar. 37
Ep. 3: Ch. 5, 6 Apr. 37
Ep. 4: Ch. 7, 8 May 37
Ep. 5: Ch. 9, 10, 11 July 37
Ep. 6: Ch. 12, 13 Aug. 37
Ep. 7: Ch. 14, 15 Sept. 37
Ep. 8: Ch. 16, 17 Nov. 37
Ep. 9: Ch. 18, 19 Dec. 37
Ep. 10: Ch. 20, 21, 22 Jan. 38
Ep. 11: Ch. 23, 24, 25 Feb. 38
Ep. 12: Ch. 26, 27 Mar. 38
Ep. 13: Ch. 28, 29, 30 Apr. 38
Ep. 14: Ch. 31, 32 May 38
Ep. 15: Ch. 33, 34 June 38
Ep. 16: Ch. 35, 36, 37 July 38
Ep. 17: Ch. 38, 39 Aug. 38
(Chapter 39 split between Ep. 17 & 18)
Ep. 18: Ch. 40, 41 Oct. 38
Ep. 19: Ch. 42, 43 Nov. 38
Ep. 20: Ch. 44, 45, 46 Dec. 38
Ep. 21: Ch. 47, 48, 49 Jan. 39
Ep. 22: Ch. 50 Feb. 39
Ep. 23: Ch. 51 Mar. 39
Ep. 24: Ch. 52, 53 --Apr. 39

Elisa wrote: "I think this might be interesting as we go along: According to the edition I'm reading, the published episodes run as follows:

Ep. 1: Ch. 1, 2 Feb. 37
Ep. 2: Ch. 3, 4 Mar. 37
Ep. 3: Ch. 5, 6 ..."

That's helpful. Is there any way to synchronize that with the reading schedule I proposed? Obviously, the layout of my book is different. It is found in the Oliver Twist thread.

Oliver Twist - Reading Schedule

Book the First

May 1-7 Chapters the First through the Seventh
May 8-14 Chapters the Eighth through the Fifteenth
May 15-21 Chapters the Sixteenth through the Twenty-Second

Book the Second

May 22-28 Chapters the First through the Seventh
May 29-June 4 Chapters the Eighth through the Fourteenth

Book the Third

June 5-11 Chapters the First through the Seventh
June 12-19 Chapters the Eighth through the Fifteenth

June 20-30 A Dinner at Poplar Walk - Dickens' first published work; this short story can also be found in Sketches by Boz. Giving ourselves 10 days to munch on this short work will allow the slower readers to catch up on Oliver Twist, as well as the rest of us to finish our discussion, as well as giving us time to get ready for Novel the Third. The down side is that going with this schedule will place us in the position of having to postpone Nicholas Nickleby from June 15th to July 1st. This became necessary in consequence of the schedule posted above. Fellow Pickwickians, I hope this is acceptable to all of you. Furthermore, I welcome your comments, complaints, acquiescence, and feedback.