Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion

thank you, michael.

Titilayo, thanks for the great questions and leading the discussion for this wonderful book. Selasi is an incredible young writer and I'm certain we'll be hearing more of her in the future.

Remember, the thread is alway's up and active so although the discussion has ended, you can still add comments and questions at any time if you like.

Thanks everyone!

Some really interesting essay-like responses the last couple of days.

Mina, I hadn't realized or thought about the fact that the family had not associated with any African Americans until you brought it up. Interesting. I wonder why that bothers me or should it?! I need to marinate on that a little more. Were you conscious of this while reading it or thought about it afterwards? Anyone else have thoughts on this?

i was aware of the fact that there is very little racialization in the novel except when kweku is fired (but then is it really racialized?) and with olu's wife's parents. otherwise, race is all but absent as a topic of discussion. i think that's a tremendous strength, because of course it's NOT absent, never absent in the mind of the reader.

jo wrote: "i was aware of the fact that there is very little racialization in the novel except when kweku is fired (but then is it really racialized?) and with olu's wife's parents. otherwise, race is all but..."

Good point, jo.

I did notice it while reading the book. I thought it was interesting and, perhaps, revealing of the author's own experiences. Of course there are plenty of African Americans in the Boston area, but there are also many Africans who choose not to associate with African Americans.

jo wrote: "otherwise, race is all but absent as a topic of discussion."

I'm a bit handicapped here, having returned my library book over a month ago. But wasn't there a short bit about "white girls' hair?" Wearing locs allowed Taiwo to go out in the rain without worrying about her hair. Selasi's one shot at the hair "issue."

I thought that there were a number of racial references sprinkled throughout the book, like the one I mentioned about ballet, but they were subtle and beautifully integrated in the story. They don't jump out and slap you in the face.

I was going to mention the hair thing too. What I loved about the book was the beautiful content within the sttory. As Mina mentioned. I seemed to find the sutble beauty in 1. Where she was going to house everyone. 2.How she told how each one stood when they entered the house. The uncle and the painting seemed to be a big one and as I mentioned before Mr Wei and Olu's conversation although the sat two I mentioned were probably bigger. I could identify with Sadie a lot I can remember growing up wishing my friends families was how I lived with.. I can also relate to opening my grandmas cabinets and going through her drawers. I bet she knew I was too. I remember she had a can of wizard air freshner that was Rose secented and I looked everyone I wen to see if she had gotten rid of the empty can. To this day My grandma's smell is Mentholatum and Listerine.
I appreciated her style that you had to search a bit within the story to find some very beautiful words and happenings. How did others feel about Khinde and Taiwo's fight he called her a Bimbo. Was he saying he thought she was better than that? Or maybe more that he thought she was? I was also curious about Sadie and her friend was her friendship with her more than longing for something she didn't have? I also had never even thought of Kehinde being gay that one slipped past me. THis book is definatley one I would want to read again because I want to pick up more than I know I did. I enjoyed reading this very beautiful and intelligently crafted book. Thank you Titilayo

Wilhelmina wrote: "I thought that there were a number of racial references sprinkled throughout the book, like the one I mentioned about ballet, but they were subtle and beautifully integrated in the story. They don'..."

i think it's okay when race slaps you in the face. sometimes it needs to. it's okay also when it doesn't. i kept expecting it to show up but it just never did in a really-big-deal kind of way. i'm curious to know how many here think that kweku's firing was unproblematically racist. it's clear that the relatives of the woman balk when he appears because he's black, but when it comes to firing him... well, he is the dude who performed the surgery and these are major league donors.

jo wrote: "i'm curious to know how many here think that kweku's firing was unproblematically racist. ..."
I did. If someone was going down for this, it was going to be the black guy.

Rebecca wrote: "I also had never even thought of Kehinde being gay that one slipped past me...."

I apologize - I seem to have missed that part of the discussion somehow. Which comment was that?

i feel too lazy to go back and check the discussion, but i don't *think* we ever discussed kehinde's alleged homosexuality.

I used the search tool for "Kehinde" and then looked for gay or homosexual. The point didn't come up until today.

But he was in love with a woman. There was nothing to indicate that he was gay. Instead there was that casual assumption that to be gay is shameful and that to be artistic is to be gay.

Kehinde, who we discussed probably less than any of the other characters, was probably my favorite -- especially of the siblings. Selasi gave us just enough of him to paint him (intentional) as a little mysterious. His homosexuality seemed to be implied more than anything. Thought the character might have been taken from that young, brilliant giant of the art world, Kehinde Wiley, who's lineage is Yoruba/Nigerian.

jo wrote: "i feel too lazy to go back and check the discussion, but i don't *think* we ever discussed kehinde's alleged homosexuality."

I think it was only a few words on. I tried but couldnt find it. Although I have been reading much quicker to try to wrap this one up.

The whole twin thing was another aspect we haven't touched. Their sleeping together as children head to foot, and being inside each other's heads until they went their separate ways.

That terrible uncle incident, I thought in some way Kehinde was trying to rescue Taiwo from a worse fate with the uncle.

Wilhelmina wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "I also had never even thought of Kehinde being gay that one slipped past me...."

I apologize - I seem to have missed that part of the discussion somehow. Which comment was that?"

I agree, Mina. I think there's absolutely no doubt about it. If Kweku's reputation is widely recognized as one of the best in Boston (yea, Boston where there's probably more top Dr's then possibly anywhere in the country) then why is he let go for this one botched surgery? Furthermore, shouldn't hospital insurance cover this? The family showed their true colors from jump.

Sarah was it that Taiwo and K could go in each other heads, but not after the abuse? When the abuse happened it talked about where they would each go and leaving their bodies.

Rebecca wrote: "Sarah was it that Taiwo and K could go in each other heads, but not after the abuse? When the abuse happened it talked about where they would each go and leaving their bodies."

That would also explain Taiwo's later promiscuity.

Sarah wrote: "That terrible uncle incident, I thought in some way Kehinde was trying to rescue Taiwo from a worse fate with the uncle."

That's what I thought too.

I finished last night. I read from 60% to the end. I couldn't stop. I have to agree on my final thoughts with Michael and jo the ending was necessary for illustration but was it appalling. jo I agree it was so disturbing and then to be sexual arousing disturbing on top. I had given my rating a 5 and took off for that too. Did anyone have any placement issues? I thought that the Olu making love scene was kind of odd. We didnt get to feel maybe how Fola felt after they switched their rooms back. Maybe it wasn't a big deal it just something I thought about. The ending wasn't as satisfying as I had hoped for. I think its a struggle when you have so much to tell to wrap it up. I think it would be hard to do.

I never assumed that Kehinde was gay...just traumatized and in seclusion from some as yet unexplained event..but his brother Olu did...remember the scene where he catches Kehinde staring at his wife and he remarks that he never knew him to appreciate females before and it creeped him out because he assumed him gay?

ha. that's who it was. i thought there was a moment in which taiwo thinks that he's gay, but i may be confusing this other moment you mention and attributing it to taiwo instead.

I thought the same. Thank you for the clarification. I couldn't remember either.

I remember reading Olu's thoughts, and putting that together with Kehinde's attraction to his (female) assistant, and it kind of made sense to me that Kehinde would abstain from any kind of sexual interaction with women (which short-sighted people might assume to mean "gay"), while Taiwo had the opposite way of compensating - a string of meaningless flings. They both were reacting to their experience at their Uncle's in opposite/extreme ways.

And that to me was what was so horrifying about their fight. He actually called her a "whore" before it got physical, I can't remember how "bimbo" fit into the argument it could have been there, too. But the horror is that Taiwo implied in her thoughts that her sexual affairs are related to her experience at their Uncle's, about which she feels at least partly betrayed by Kehinde, and he certainly feels responsible for what happened, cannot handle the guilt. So calling her a "whore" allows Kehinde to put the blame on her, and I am sure his subconscious would love to do that so he can escape the guilt, but they both know it is a lie, or at least they hope it is but the reality is all twisted from their experience, and the word is so powerful she cannot forgive him for saying it. And there is also the possibility that because Kehinde's response was abstinence, he is particularly threatened by Taiwo's non-abstinence, or just the idea of it. That is my current interpretation at least.

And so I'll ask the question I forgot to ask earlier, in case anyone is still around and wants to address it. Do folks think that the 3 words Kehinde thought he heard from Taiwo near the end of Section 3, and the 3 words she said to Kehinde, are the same? And that those 3 words are "I forgive you"? Is that where their interaction is going?

That was my understanding. I think too they're at the correct age to have the epiphan

Sorry. Dumb phone. I was saying that it's often in our late 20's when we realize that not only can't we fix our family, we also can't trade them and shouldn't go without them. So you learn to accept them as you find them cause they're all you'll get.

i agree with michael that k. and t.'s trauma plays in all sorts of ways in their lives and between them. there is genuine love between them, but also all sorts of guilt, shame, rage, etc. it's normal for trauma.

i also thought the words were i forgive you. that would be beautiful.

i want to say that, unaccountably, i gave this book 3 stars. i just realized this. i really thought i had given it 5 stars! i upped to 4, to honor my former self and my current, more enlightened, still v. struck self. this book has truly stayed with me, in a way in which many many books don't. i also think it's a great work of art, in spite of some plot flaws. for a first novel, it's fantastic.

jo wrote: "i also thought the words were i forgive you. that would be beautiful. "

Just thinking about it again brought a tear to my eye. Their relationship really moved me.

What is "v. struck"? As in "more enlightened, still v. struck self".

very struck. by this book. which is staying with me, and striking me anew every time i think of it.

: )

thanks, just hadn't seen that notation before!

Michael wrote: "I remember reading Olu's thoughts, and putting that together with Kehinde's attraction to his (female) assistant, and it kind of made sense to me that Kehinde would abstain from any kind of sexual ..."

I agree with Michael.

Fraternal twins or ibeji are considered special human beings because they are thought to share one soul. Yoruba mythology maintains that twins can solicit special favors from heaven; because they are closely tied to spiritual world. They are supposed to be treated well so
that they bring these special favors from heaven. When you mistreat;fall out of favor with them you endure misfortune, loss, and distress...Remember what the Savage Uncle (the symbolism of that last name) said when asked to take them in and his angry words at Fola when he discovered that they had been taken away....

We all know that eerie bond that twins have sometimes defy the rules of nature. In Selasi's NPR interview she mentioned sharing a moment of terror with her twin sister while they were continents apart. I think she did a brilliant job at sharing the closeness twins experience; as well as the mirroring the isolationism [of abused people when they do not receive treatment/justice for the assault] of the twins with the break down of their family [isolation of Kweku from the others, immigrants in diaspora, the children's strained relationship, Fola's moving repatriation].

Titilayo wrote: "Michael wrote: "I remember reading Olu's thoughts, and putting that together with Kehinde's attraction to his (female) assistant, and it kind of made sense to me that Kehinde would abstain from any..."

Yes, sometimes I can't bear to think about it. It's bad enough what happened to them as sister and brother, but it is such an impossible tragedy for twins.

And now you're telling me Ms. Selasi is a twin! I need to go back and peruse all those links so I am caught up. My wife is also a twin (same-sex fraternal), and I can attest to the connection, both as a part of their identity, and also the occasional eery emotional/physical connection they have from a distance. It defies my scientific mind.

Just finished reading this book, and I really thought it was wonderful. Thanks to all who read it earlier, and shared their comments. They are much appreciated - even if belatedly.

That's good to hear, thanks for checking in!

Nina wrote: "Just finished reading this book, and I really thought it was wonderful. Thanks to all who read it earlier, and shared their comments. They are much appreciated - even if belatedly."
I am glad you loved it. look forward to reading your review.

Mary wrote: "Nina wrote: "Just finished reading this book, and I really thought it was wonderful. Thanks to all who read it earlier, and shared their comments. They are much appreciated - even if belatedly."
I..."

Nina, just noticed you live in Accra! Sounds like the book must have been particularly interesting to you, then.

Michael wrote: "Mary wrote: "Nina wrote: "Just finished reading this book, and I really thought it was wonderful. Thanks to all who read it earlier, and shared their comments. They are much appreciated - even if ..."

Yes, and I was privileged to attend Taiye Selasi's official Ghana launch earlier in July, plus a discussion she had on how she became a writer.

Kali wrote: "It took me some time to get used to her writing style. I was not a fan of the heavy use of parenthetical remarks. However, once I was invested in the actual story, I really enjoyed the book. It ..."

I felt the same way at first, then came to love the book.
I was on such a huge waiting list of 79 people! I finished it in July, so I'll add to this discussion this month.

Wilhelmina wrote: "I loved this book also. It was interesting to me that we have read 2 novels about family and migration lately - The Twelve Tribes of Hattie and this one - and how differently the two families appro..."

Good point!