Chaos Reading discussion

Good point. There may, of course, have been many references that I never caught.

Derek wrote: "You can't really ignore "the whole dragon/tiger thing", because renaming "Borakku Dorragon" to "Black Tiger" is legitimate...."

I can and I shall. The point I was making was the use of the word, "Borakku". Sure, it's a Japanese/English term that translates to "black" in English. I was commenting that these days those mixed language terms are gaining legitimacy in themselves.

It seems like a lot of us enjoyed the book despite its many shortcomings. Simply a matter of nostalgia or something deeper at work? It's kind of a classic underdog tale and does tap into certain popular themes (the need to belong/be accepted; individuals/community vs. corporation/institutions, brains over brawn, etc.).

I didn't find anything overtly racist in the book, but I was amazed at the seeming lack of any black or African American cultural references (didn't rap/hip-hop really come into its own in the '80s?). It's definitely a very white, male kind of nostalgia (not exclusively).

Marc wrote: "It seems like a lot of us enjoyed the book despite its many shortcomings. Simply a matter of nostalgia or something deeper at work? It's kind of a classic underdog tale and does tap into certain po..."

I enjoy a lot of books that I would never argue are great literature. And a book that primarily relies on a lot of pop culture name dropping probably isn't going to go down as the Huckleberry Finn of a new generation :-)

As for the black cultural references, you're right. I suppose one could argue that 'Halliday just wasn't into that stuff', but that seems pretty disingenuous. Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five's 'The Message' was incredibly pervasive in the early 80's. And at the very least Run DMC and Public Enemy had break-through status as well. Seems like an oversight, but I have to say I thought Halliday's musical taste was pretty lame in general.

Ruby wrote: "Derek wrote: "You can't really ignore "the whole dragon/tiger thing", because renaming "Borakku Dorragon" to "Black Tiger" is legitimate...."

I can and I shall. The point I was making was the use ..."

I understand your point. But if one claimed to be renaming something from "Borakku Dorragon" to "Black Dragon", I maintain that IS racist. There's no need to mention it, since you AREN'T renaming anything, you're just changing the letters. It would have been done just to draw attention to the fact that it's difficult for Japanese to pronounce some English words. If he'd said they'd renamed "ブラックドラゴン" (assuming Google Translate hasn't lied to me, and I've just said something filthy) to "Black Dragon", it still wouldn't be true.

However, none of that turned out to be the case, because I'd totally missed the fact that they really did rename it.

Whitney wrote: "As for the black cultural references, you're right. I suppose one could argue that 'Halliday just wasn't into that stuff', but that seems pretty disingenuous."

How so? Halliday was a white, autistic, geek. He's a little younger than me, and a whole lot smarter, but otherwise, he's practically me. I certainly knew who Run DMC and Public Enemy were, but I wasn't listening to them. The video-game of my life will have few (if any) black cultural references, too.

If Halliday had been a black, autistic, geek, the overall story would have been more culturally balanced, but it would have still been extremely biased, because when we talk about culture, not many of us are really very multicultural.

And Halliday's musical tastes are lame, because most music in the 80s was pretty lame.

Derek wrote: "Whitney wrote: "As for the black cultural references, you're right. I suppose one could argue that 'Halliday just wasn't into that stuff', but that seems pretty disingenuous."

How so? Halliday was..."

I guess my response is, Halliday isn't just anyone. He's created a supposed all-inclusive virtual world. One would expect he would make an effort to be a little more inclusive.

I realize it's a little ridiculous to pick on one particular book for not having wider cultural references. I grew up with years of criticism that television and movies in this country were too exclusively white. The response was always that 'the setting we have just happens to be white'. Perfectly legit when looking at any one particular show, but it wears a bit thin when it applies to every show on the air. 'Happy Days' wasn't racist because it didn't have people of color, but when there are no people of color on any shows, it points to a culture of racism.

So, as I said, it's a bit cranky to point at any one, particular book. And Cline gets points for making an effort with the character of Aech, clumsy though it was. It would have been nice if he'd made more of an effort with the cultural references. And, no, I'm not advocating artistic affirmative action.

More than anything, this book is a love letter to geek culture which hit an apex in the 80's with the availability of video games, both for primitive home computers and early internet communities coupled with the 'loser wins after all' movies of John Hughes, the emergence of addictive RPG, as in role playing games, the rise of the internet, the literature that predicted advanced tech landscapes like Gibson’s Sprawl series and last the pounding, synthesizer based music of 80's rock bands. The above sentence is the opening of my review on Ready Player One and summarizes my feeling about this book. I don’t think this book was written with a specific age in mind but instead, a mindset. The book was written for the guys in The Big Bang Theory and for all of us who ever immersed ourselves in alternate realities be they Role Playing games, secret missions in cyberspace or questing heroes in video games.
I think the massive allusions to 80’s culture are necessary in order to give the reader a sense of the immense task Wade (Z) has undertaken. OASIS is by definition almost infinite and the player who hopes to find the egg will have to think like Halliday and to do that, the successful player has to be aware of the most arcane influences in Halliday’s landscape in order to find the keys and ultimately, the egg.
This book was also a trip down memory lane for me. I remember the excitement of watching the first actual video game – Pong, rapidly followed by all the historic favorites, Pac Man, Asteroids and Space Invaders. Wades quest reminded me of two 80’s favorites – The Sierra Online series Kings Quest and the Fred Pohl book Gateway (actually written in 78). Kings Quests was one of the first computer games with actual video graphics and gamer must work his way through a maze of riddles to win the tools (keys) that will help him win. Gateway is a hard Sci Fi story where the future earth, like Wades, has fallen on hard times. The hero has a chance to win billions of dollars by becoming a space pilot of alien vessels that may or may not return him and may or may not lead to vast riches.
Like many of you, I did feel the bad guys were over the top. I also felt that the end was almost too much. Cline kept piling on the disasters and yet our foursome makes it through. Outside of that I have no other issues with this book. It was great fun to read and encounter that long ago culture that was the 80’s.

Whitney wrote: "I guess my response is, Halliday isn't just anyone. He's created a supposed all-inclusive virtual world. One would expect he would make an effort to be a little more inclusive."

Ah, but he's autistic. Your feelings just aren't that important to him. I think that's really key.

I can't say I know how you feel, because I've grown up extremely WASP, and male. I'm the privileged class. That's why, if the author wants to be more inclusive, it would be important to actually make Halliday a minority. There's nothing wrong with the story (at least in its cultural aspects), as it's told from the particular points-of-view of Halliday and Wade, but you can shift the point of view. You couldn't make Happy Days much different with Richie Cunningham played by Ron Howard. But cast someone of a visible minority in the part, and the sky's the limit.

Yeah, Aech is very clumsy. (view spoiler)[I'd figured Aech was probably female, but there was no hint that she was black, and it wasn't remotely relevant to the plot. (hide spoiler)] Cline could have explored this in far more depth.

Karen wrote: "More than anything, this book is a love letter to geek culture which hit an apex in the 80's ... 'loser wins after all' movies of John Hughes, ..."


Oh, oh, oh! Molly Ringwald is now a jazz singer.



Still, Molly's not nearly as exciting as Ally Sheedy...

Derek wrote: "I can't say I know how you feel, because I've grown up extremely WASP, and male. I'm the privileged class. That's why, if the author wants to be more inclusive, it would be important to actually make Halliday a minority..."

Hey, I grew up the privileged class as well, thank you! And my generation (born 6 years before Halliday) may have been the first where white suburban kids walked around trying act 'black'.

I'm not saying the book should have been radically different to be more inclusive. Recent criticism of the show 'Girls' wasn't along the lines of 'they need to have more main characters who are black'! but more along the lines of 'it takes place in Brooklyn, at least have a few black people in coffee shops, or in the background, or something!" In a book with hundreds of cultural references, a few more wouldn't have been out of place. That's all. Just a mention or two.

And I beg to differ about the music. There's was lots of great stuff in the 80's. Unfortunately, most people focus on the bad pop crap when they talk about the era.

Whitney wrote: "Hey, I grew up the privileged class as well, thank you!"

But female :-)

But, no, really there are huge parts of the continent where, certainly in the 80s, and probably still now, there are no significant visible minorities. I grew up in Northern Ontario, where the only minorities in most communities are linguistic. In the late 90s I worked in northern lower-peninsula Michigan, where I met exactly two brown people. Sure, if you set something in Brooklyn, you need some minorities, but none of Halliday's video game would be expected to show that, and Wade's upbringing is some place mid-US (Oklahoma?). Where, if there even are minorities, I'd expect no miscegenation.

And sure, there was lots of good music in the 80s. There was just a whole lot more bad pop crap :)

Derek wrote: "ut, no, really there are huge parts of the continent where, certainly in the 80s, and probably still now, there are no significant visible minorities...."

Sure there are. But Halliday didn't have to grow up in one of those areas, Cline CHOSE to make him the way he was. As I said, given that Halliday was presented as an inventor of a world of near complete equality and freedom, a little more diversity would have been nice. I'm not saying it was a deliberate act of exclusion, but more like a missed opportunity.

Derek wrote: "Still, Molly's not nearly as exciting as Ally Sheedy... ..."

I think that's very much a guy thing: Molly was for the girls, Ally was for the guys. At least in the hetero-world.

Ruby wrote: "Derek wrote: "Still, Molly's not nearly as exciting as Ally Sheedy... ..."

I think that's very much a guy thing: Molly was for the girls, Ally was for the guys. At least in the hetero-world."

Really? I related to Ally much more, but then I'm not very girly, and Molly's character was the type of girl I kind of despised (yes, I know - missing the whole unity message of the movie here). Ally was unique, artistic, and a little 'off'. The only disappointing thing to me was her transition at the end into cookie-cutter pretty girl under the tutelage of Molly Ringwald. Because catching the attention of a jock, THAT'S the important thing, right?

Whitney wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Derek wrote: "Still, Molly's not nearly as exciting as Ally Sheedy... ..."

I think that's very much a guy thing: Molly was for the girls, Ally was for the guys. At least in the hetero..."

LOL. I think as an adult, or even older teenager, I appreciate(d) Ally more. But at the time..... I just wanted that pretty pink dress :)

The book started with Oingo Boingo and then ended with Rush. Some pretty awesome tunes right there.

Karen wrote: "More than anything, this book is a love letter to geek culture which hit an apex in the 80's with the availability of video games, both for primitive home computers and early internet communities coupled with the 'loser wins after all' movies..."

You nailed it!

I was a geek growing up in the 80's, playing the early video & computer games (though my family had TRS 80s in the early 80s, and no dedicated game system like the Atari, so the games I played at home were specific and less-commonly talked about). In the mid 80s I went to the arcade and played Galaga, Centipede, Zaxxon, Tempest, etc., etc.
I watched enviously as other players mastered the gorgeous game "Dragon's Lair", which set a new bar for video games.

I wanted to play D&D, but didn't have the courage to approach the guys I knew who did play, so instead I bought the Dungeon Masters books and designed my own games, but never actually played. (pretty lame, but...)

And I have to disagree with all the people talking about the "lame" soundtrack - this was MY music! Almost everything mentioned in the book was something I heard and loved (especially Oingo Boingo). This was the music of 91X in San Diego and KROQ in Los Angeles - stations I listened to night and day.

And I always hoped the Loser would win in the end - after all, that's the person I most identified with...

I actually found the descriptions of the 'real' world of the 2040's the best parts of the book- the 'stacks' where the kid lived as well as his little physical hygiene routine he forced himself to do (yes, with a little help from the suit's program setting)before setting forth into the OASIS. I couldn't help imagining all those millions (billions I dunno) of people making ghost-trace motions in a physical environment while their brain is occupied in a virtual one. I know, the whole point of the novel is the Game,and the more time spent on it the better, apparently. But still... And yes, I love Molly too.

Yes I enjoyed the real world bits too.
Hated most 80s films and music though (though I adored Adam Ant - one of my first crushes - not sure if anyones heard of him outside the UK) - was living in an imaginary 50s- 70s during the 80s!

Andrea wrote: "I actually found the descriptions of the 'real' world of the 2040's the best parts of the book- the 'stacks' where the kid lived as well as his little physical hygiene routine he forced himself to..."

Andrea, there's a story you might like in this anthology I read a while back, which your post kinda reminded me of. The story is "Next Door" by Rahul Kanakia - Set in a really interesting tech-based dystopia, in which the "haves" are so tuned out to reality, they are barely aware of the have-nots squatting in their private space. The eeriness of this has stayed with me ever since reading it. It's in: Diverse Energies.

Lee wrote: "I adored Adam Ant - one of my first crushes - not sure if anyones heard of him outside the UK..."

He was (and still is) huge here. He toured Australia a couple of years ago, and I think was genuinely surprised by how much love he was shown!

I am so glad to hear that, bless him

Fahrenheit 451 is also set in a future where everyone was is entirely wrapped up in a virtual world - only this time it's interactive tv.

Erica wrote: "Karen wrote: "More than anything, this book is a love letter to geek culture which hit an apex in the 80's with the availability of video games, both for primitive home computers and early internet..."

My daughter grew up in the 80's so much of this is shared experience. I have to agree with you on the music. I was just surprised that the losers anthem, Don't You Forget About Me by Simple Minds is not referenced in the book.

Lee, Adam Ant made a brief but memorable splash here in the U.S. (thanks to MTV).

I have a copy of Jubilee on DVD - Adam Ant's debut as an actor/singer in 1978. Along with Toyah Wilcox, Siouxsie Sioux, Richard O'Brian and Little Nell. I love that film.

Ruby wrote: "I have a copy of Jubilee on DVD - Adam Ant's debut as an actor/singer in 1978. Along with Toyah Wilcox, Siouxsie Sioux, Richard O'Brian and Little Nell. I love that film."

Oh my God - thank you! I had completely forgotten about this film! Having a copy makes you, I don't know, holy or something.

As an infinitely lessor aside, I do remember Adam Ant's appearance on the TV show "Northern Exposure", essentially playing a very annoying version of himself.

Whitney wrote: "Ruby wrote: "I have a copy of Jubilee on DVD - Adam Ant's debut as an actor/singer in 1978. Along with Toyah Wilcox, Siouxsie Sioux, Richard O'Brian and Little Nell. I love that film."

Oh my God -..."

Bahahaha! I knew you'd know the film :)

I had no idea about that Northern Exposure episode! I feel like I need to hunt it down now...

Whitney wrote: "Ruby wrote: "I have a copy of Jubilee on DVD - Adam Ant's debut as an actor/singer in 1978. Along with Toyah Wilcox, Siouxsie Sioux, Richard O'Brian and Little Nell. I love that film."

Oh my God -..."

Is it as funny as Boy George's appearance in the A-Team as Cowboy George?
I can still remember joining in with the Prince Charming (more of a strut than a dance) in the 3rd year school disco - our teachers must have been in fits!

Ruby wrote:The eeriness of this has stayed with me ever since reading it. It's in: Diverse Energies. Thanks for the link; I'll check it out, sounds good..
Has anyone seen the movie "Fanboys"? Didn't Cline have something to do with that? I saw part of it on TV the other night. I just watched a bit, but it made me think of "Paul" (which was very stew-pid and also hilarious)

Lee wrote: "Is it as funny as Boy George's appearance in the A-Team as Cowboy George?..."

Oh, yes! Another great 80's moment! I'd say the the Boy George appearance was funny mostly for it's WTFedness, Adam Ant's appearance was actually funny in the way it was meant to be. I found a clip on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hglG_t...

His character wants to record with the local natives since world music is so popular. You can witness some of his cultural sensitivity in the clip. The next day the locals all fail to show up, saying he is 'like a pebble in a shoe'. It still makes me laugh.

Feeling very uncool now - just had to google WTFness - now I know what it means I totally agree!! Thanks for the link - I must go dig out my copy of Kings of the Wild Frontier right now.

Andrea wrote: "Has anyone seen the movie "Fanboys"? Didn't Cline have something to do with that? I saw part of it on TV the other night. I just watched a bit, but it made me think of "Paul" (which was very stew-pid and also hilarious) ..."

Yes - I have a copy. Cline wrote it. It's quite sweet, particularly if you're into Star Wars. Knowing how bad those movies were kinda spoils it for me though. Anyone who invents Jar Jar Binks does not deserve that level of hero worship ;)

Lee wrote: "Is it as funny as Boy George's appearance in the A-Team as Cowboy George?.."

BAHAHA! That's wonderful! I was such a huge Boy George fan in the 80s! My room was covered in posters floor to ceiling, so I had to start tying strings across it to accommodate more posters!

Here's the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47puwe...

Ruby wrote: "Lee wrote: "Is it as funny as Boy George's appearance in the A-Team as Cowboy George?.."

BAHAHA! That's wonderful! I was such a huge Boy George fan in the 80s! My room was covered in posters floor..."

Hes got a new album out - heard a track on the radio the other day - sounded quite good

Lee wrote: "Fahrenheit 451 is also set in a future where everyone was is entirely wrapped up in a virtual world - only this time it's interactive tv."

Well, it was written before we had the Internet, or even personal computers, so "interactive TV" is probably just his word for the Internet :)

Derek wrote: "Lee wrote: "Fahrenheit 451 is also set in a future where everyone was is entirely wrapped up in a virtual world - only this time it's interactive tv."

Well, it was written before we had the Intern..."

I just checked out the relevant sections in Fahrenheit 451. It is pretty amazing. Montag's wife wants to hurry up and get "the fourth wall" installed so the TV parlor will be complete. And she has a script with her lines for the interactive play they will be broadcasting. Not a bad version of The Oasis for 1953.

Yeah, it's ... oh. ... 40 years since I read Fahrenheit 451, and I had forgotten the interactive TV until Lee brought it up, but it really is very like what we can do now, or Cline would have us do in RP1.

Ruby wrote: "For anyone else reading along, here are the links to the songs from Ernest Cline's "official soundtrack" to the book. Tonight I'm planning to turn off the telly and put this on while I read. Enjoy!..."

Ooohh -- I can't wait to hear this!! Did he include any Falco?

Wow. Having grown up with all of the 80's pop culture and nerdy Trash-80s, and having spent a lot of time playing Galaga and Tempest, this book was a total blast from the past. I saw it as a sort of "Ender's Game" meets D&D, but unfortunately the very end was much more predictable than Ender's Game and sort of anticlimactic after everything that Parzival/Wade had gone through to get that far.

Terri wrote: "Ooohh -- I can't wait to hear this!! Did he include any Falco? .."

He didn't, but I did on my tribute playlist! (Linked above)

I listened to this one on my computer. Read by Will Wheaton. Made it even more 80s geek-dom-ier.

Ruby wrote: "I have to say, I did think some of the references were obscure enough to please me greatly - particularly the Max Headroom ones. I am the only person I know who recognises (and reveres) Matt Frewer from that role. I nearly wet myself when I saw that first reference. .."

I've been binge watching "Orphan Black". Awesomeness occurs about half-way through when Matt Frewer joins the cast. (Not to say it isn't a good show up until that point, I would recommend it even without the added Matt icing.)

Whitney wrote: "Ruby wrote: "I have to say, I did think some of the references were obscure enough to please me greatly - particularly the Max Headroom ones. I am the only person I know who recognises (and reveres..."

I'll have to look that one up. I haven't heard of it..

Ruby wrote: "I'll have to look that one up. I haven't heard of it.. "

I mentioned it in post #49, because of Frewer…

I still haven't got around to watching the episodes after his first appearance.

Derek wrote: "Ruby wrote: "I'll have to look that one up. I haven't heard of it.. "

I mentioned it in post #49, because of Frewer…

I still haven't got around to watching the episodes after his first appearance."

Yes you did! I must have read that and then filed it subconsciously, because I also yelled "Max Headroom" at the TV. If you weren't hooked on the show by the time he shows up, it may not be for you, but after he shows up it definitely takes some turns for the weirder. I would watch it just for Felix.

I'm still planning to watch them all, but it's summer, and the TV hasn't been on since the last episode of Orphan Black that I watched. Last season's TV consisted entirely of Doctor Who and Orphan Black.

Weirder? It's pretty weird so far!