The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Publication order

La Fortune des Rougon (1871)
La Curée (1871-2)
Le Ventre de Paris (1873)
La Conquête de Plassans (1874)
La Faute de l'Abbé Mouret (1875)
Son Excellence Eugène Rougon (1876)
L'Assommoir (1877)
Une Page d'amour (1878)
Nana (1880)
Pot-Bouille (1882)
Au Bonheur des Dames (1883)
La Joie de vivre (1884)
Germinal (1885)
L'Œuvre (1886)
La Terre (1887)
Le Rêve (1888)
La Bête humaine (1890)
L'Argent (1891)
La Débâcle (1892)
Le Docteur Pascal (1893)

A recommended reading order

La Fortune des Rougon (1871)
Son Excellence Eugène Rougon (1876)
La Curée (1871-2)
L'Argent (1891)
Le Rêve (1888)
La Conquête de Plassans (1874)
Pot-Bouille (1882)
Au Bonheur des Dames (1883)
La Faute de l'Abbé Mouret (1875)
Une Page d'amour (1878)
Le Ventre de Paris (1873)
La Joie de vivre (1884)
L'Assommoir (1877)
L'Œuvre (1886)
La Bête humaine (1890)
Germinal (1885)
Nana (1880)
La Terre (1887)
La Débâcle (1892)
Le Docteur Pascal (1893)

Today, I purchased the e-collection of Zola's works from Amazon that includes all the novels from the Rougon- Macquarts. It also includes his other works, illustrations, commentary, and annotation. I am quite happy with it. Stand-alone novels are usually free, but because it is a long project, I decided it was worth the investment. Besides, the price is quite reasonable - I only paid $2.99 for the entire collection.

My next question is when we can 'launch' this massive project. My initial suggestion is September 01, 2013.

Actually, I am more than happy to start as soon as possible, and if you want to read the first novel of the cycle in July or August, I am totally with you here:-)

I have edited the thread, and now you can post your thoughts about the Big Day. Obviously, we will be following the recommended reading order. As soon as you agree on the date, I will start working on the reading schedule. Do you prefer the Dickens Project pace (45-65 pages per week) or the one we use for our regular reads (75-95 pages per week, roughly a novel per month)?

I also got all of Zola for 2.99 in French after I saw that some of the series was not easily available otherwise. I am still amazed by the Internet in the fact that all those works downloaded in under 2minutes. Years ago when I studied and taught French, I needed to place international orders or go to a university library to access any work that wasn't a common one.

I am ok with starting any time, I would vote for the smaller number of pages per week since we will also be reading Dickens, and no doubt other things as well . But if most prefer more pages, I am ok with that.

Robin wrote: "I also got all of Zola for 2.99 in French after I saw that some of the series was not easily available otherwise. I am still amazed by the Internet in the fact that all those works downloaded in un..."

I envy you so much. My French is awfully rusty. I can follow news or modern TV shows in French, but when I last tried to read several pages of a classical novel, I had to use a dictionary 10-15 times a page. Argh .... I used to read Maupassant, Martin du Gard, and Druon in French quite easily, but this was 15 years ago. Sigh ... After my graduate school, I have not practised French much. Mea culpa ...

Dagny wrote: "A Zola Dictionary by J. G. Patterson is an excellent reference tool for the Rougon-Macquart saga. Free in numerous formats at Project Gutenberg, it contains a brief description of the twenty novels..."

Thank you so much, Dagny! We will keep it mind as a reference point but we will use it with caution.

Very useful link, thanks Dagny!

Really any time is fine with me, however I will have very limited internet access for July and August so my comments may be few during those months. I would prefer the Dickens project pace; with my other reads/groups, I find if I try to go faster than that I tend to fall behind or rush and don't get the most out of the novel.

Thanks for doing this, Zulfiya!

Cleo wrote: "Really any time is fine with me, however I will have very limited internet access for July and August so my comments may be few during those months. I would prefer the Dickens project pace; with m..."

You are more than welcome. I am looking forward to this project. I guess I just like reading challenges:-)

I've got Dombey and Son and The Forsyte Saga starting in June so I'd appreciate August or Sept. And the slower pace. I don't have a reading device so I'm looking for the books online or the many summer booksales we have here. This is very exciting, Zulfiya.
Does anyone know whether one translation is better than the other?

Cynthia wrote: "I've got Dombey and Son and The Forsyte Saga starting in June so I'd appreciate August or Sept. And the slower pace. I don't have a reading device so I'm looking for the books online or the many ..."

I know that the new Brian Nelson's translation of the first novel in the series, The Fortune of the Rougons was published in 2012 as an Oxford World Classic. There are earlier versions, but I know nothing of them.

The Kindle bundle has the first translation by Henry Vizetelly whose goal was to appease prudish Victorians. I will purchase the original French version as well (my French is terribly rusty though)and then we will try to enrich the discussion by discussing the nuances of different versions.

Zulfiya, which bundle did you buy? Was it the Delphi version found here:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Works-...

Unfortunately, my French is inadequate to read Zola in the original language.

I would also vote for a slower reading pace, as this will not be my only classics project.

Christine wrote: "Zulfiya, which bundle did you buy? Was it the Delphi version found here:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Works-...

Unfortunately, my French is..."

Yes, it is the Delphi version, and it is available on amazon, but you can also purchase it from their site. They are identical versions.

I am going to read in English, but occasionally I will peep into the French version just to be sure that Henry Vizetelly's conformism would not warp the perception of the novel. From my personal experience I boldly state that translation is both art and misery:-)

I would also go for a late summer or Sept start and the slower pace-between D&S, this a likely another book for this group (not to mention my own TBR list!) it looks to be a very bookish autumn-lets hope for some rainy days!

Dagny wrote: "Adding to my mention of the Victorian translations, they're still way better than not getting to read the book at all if you can't obtain a modern translation."

It is true. Besides, generations of readers for more than one hundred years read Victorian translations because they were the only available ones. The new translation initiative started just three or four years ago.

Zulfiya wrote:
I envy you so much. My French is awfully rusty. I can follow news or modern TV shows in French, but when I last tried to read several pages of a classical novel, I had to use a dictionary 10-15 times a page. Argh ….

Don't feel bad, Zulfiya, I am the opposite. I have more trouble with TV shows, movies, etc, especially with a lot of slang. My training was more on classical reading. That being said, I did wonder if I could keep up with the number of pages, I'll probably have a translation too so that I can use it if I want to use any quotes and so on.(or if I get far behind!)

I'm in! I fell in love with Zola after reading some of his works in my 19th century French lit class. I'd love to be able to read the whole collection as intended. His descriptions of people and Parisian life are fascinating and draws the reader in.

Melissah wrote: "I'm in! I fell in love with Zola after reading some of his works in my 19th century French lit class. I'd love to be able to read the whole collection as intended. His descriptions of people and Pa..."

Great, Melissa. I hope you will enjoy the long reading journey!

It seems that only the Vizetelli translations are available in e-book format?

BTW I would prefer to read the series in the order in which Zola wrote them because that is more likely to show the progression of his thinking as well as the progression of the family. For instance, Wikipedia says about The Fortunes of the Rougons:

'After a stirring opening on the eve of the coup d'état, involving an idealistic young village couple joining up with the republican militia in the middle of the night, Zola then spends the next few chapters going back in time to pre-Revolutionary Provence, and proceeds to lay the foundations for the entire Rougon-Macquart cycle, committing himself to what would become the next twenty-two years of his life's work.'

Pacing-wise, I'm easy with either of the two suggestions. What's more important for me, rather than number of pages a week, is the spacing of each novel. I haven't taken part in a project like this before so I've no idea what the experience is like. What I'd hate to happen though is to get Zola overload with no time for reading anything else!!! (Yes, I know nobody will force me to read all these books, but I'd like to!).

I'd also be happy to lead the discussion of one of the books in the series if you're short of people, but perhaps later on when I've seen how the pros do it :-)

I love the idea if this! I would love to participate, though I am also very active in another group and have a lot of reading for my own work. If it is okay, I will follow along perhaps a bit behind the main group. I am participating in a challenge that goes through the end of September so won't be able to start until October, but you should choose the time that works best for everyone else and I will try to catch up. A slower reading schedule works best for me, but again, my attention is going to be divided no matter what. I haven't commented in this group in ages and don't know whether or not I've introduced myself. I've been following some of the discussions though! Thanks for some great projects and book recommendations!

I am perfectly fine with both orders. I propose to read the first novel because it tops both lists; while reading, we can run a poll if the opinion of the members is not unanimous about the order. Actually, they are mostly stand-alone novels, so I do not think it matters that much.

MadgeUK wrote: "It seems that only the Vizetelli translations are available in e-book format? "

MadgeUK, Brian Nelson's translation of the first novel is also available as a Kindle book. It is actually slightly cheaper than an actual tree-book:-)

http://www.amazon.com/Fortune-Rougons...

Dagny wrote: "The pace or reading order doesn't matter to me since I've already read all but one.

Whichever way we go on the order, the main things are the same on both lists:
La Fortune des Rougon is first, st..."

Dagny, since you have read all the novels, would you like to co-moderate and moderate some of the novels and be a cultural guide for this project?

Jack wrote: "Here's a link to an interesting discussion on the best reading order for the Rougon-Macquart cycle. It doesn't give any firm 'best answer,' but some food for thought.

Apparently a major month-long..."

Looks like we are in good company!:)

I'm happy with the suggested reading order and starting in August. Although I will work with either reading speed I prefer the slower pace. This is my first time through these and I'd love to take my time! Can't wait!

Dagny wrote: "Sometimes one of the problems with finding a translation is the name change. Here's a list of known titles which I've come across over the years. This list is a few years old, so the newest transl..."

Thank you so much, Dagny. This post is valuable for many of us.

I am fine with either order and starting at any time. I would prefer the slower reading pace as I also have a lot on my plate right now and want to be able to keep up. Looking forward to it. :)

Based on your ideas, it looks like that we might start this project in August. Let's say the tentative date is August 04, 2013.

Dagny wrote: "Sounds good to me, Zulfiya.

Will there be a separ..."

Yes, I plan to open a sub-folder for every novel with the threads for weekly discussions.

Jack wrote: "Glad to start off on this grand adventure. Will be interesting to jump into this river with others by my side."

I am equally pumped about the project. And excuse my modern slang :-)

Exciting!

Dagny wrote: " Would any preliminary information, such as Zola's research and such, go in first week or will there be a separate thread? "

I plan to use the Dickens Project as a model for this one. There we have one general folder for all resources and a specific thread for each novel with the background resources, links, articles, and discussions.

I know, I know - it is not original, but so far it has worked well for the group:-)

I bought an e-book version that does have more than Vitzelly. I just finished The Kill that was by Alexander Texeira De Mattos and supposedly is much a much better translation than the newest translation. Most of them are Vitzelly, who is rather annoying.
The recommended reading list was recommended by Emile Zola before he died. So that is his recommended list.
MadgeUK wrote: "It seems that only the Vizetelli translations are available in e-book format?

BTW I would prefer to read the series in the order in which Zola wrote them because that is more likely to show the p..."

I just downloaded Brian Nelson's translation of The Fortune of the Rougons. Don't know that I shall be able to stay with this project, but I think it is wonderful that it is being undertaken here. I hope to dip in and out of the process.

Is anyone going to start right away? I'm in need of a book for my French lessons, and reading with the group as well would make a nice change. I tend to oversee details when I read in French, so commenting in English would help. Plus, I could keep a faster pace than when I only comment with my teacher. I tend to lose interest in the story if I wait from one class to the next.

I'm happy to have found this project. I read 3 of the novels last winter - L'Assomoir, Nana, The Ladies Paradise - before I realized I want to read them all. I've gone back to the beginning and I plan to read in Zola's recommended order, so am happy there will be separate threads for each work.

Zola was inspired by Balzac, whose stories were of the French middle class (mostly). Zola chose a different perspective: to explore what happens in a family. Zola had a genealogy chart to plan his novels, which, apparently, he revised a few times. His original proposal to his publisher was for a total of 14 novels - apparently he had a few new ideas along the way.

The novels take place entirely during the Second Empire (1852-1870). The first novel is placed in the turmoil of 1848-1851, with some earlier background, and we're told of the coup d'etat of Napoleon III. (That's not a spoiler - we're told in the first few pages.) Zola was interested in his novels being accurate historically, so while the main characters are fictional, many real characters are peppered throughout.

Dagny wrote: "Probably THE biography of Zola in English is Zola: A Life (1995) by Frederick Brown. It's almost 900 pages in length, so even with skipping the specifics of the Rougon-Macquart series, there will b..."

Thanks for this suggestion. With your recommendation, and the very positive GR description, I can't resist. This is not available digitally, but I was able to find a good used copy for less than $12, which is on its way.

Dagny wrote: "Probably THE biography of Zola in English is Zola: A Life (1995) by Frederick Brown. It's almost 900 pages in length, so even with skipping the specifics of the Rougon-Macquart series, there will b..."

Thanks for this recommendation, Dagny. I posted in the Croissants thread that I received my copy today. Big enough a little red wagon to haul it around would be a good idea. ;-)

I haven't a plan for when to start it, but would be interested if the group chose to read it together - very slowly. In fact, a much more relaxed schedule than we have for novels. Is anyone else interested?

Hi Elizabeth,

That sounds like a great idea to give a clear context for the novels that we're going to be reading. I'm interested in doing this in tandem with the novels as well.

I will soon post the reading schedule for the first novel.

Yeah, I'm in too!

French literature, with exception of the standard Dumas and Hugo fare, is a 'gap' for me. All of your recent discussions about Zola's Rougon-Macquart series has me quite interested. I know that Balzac, Flaubert, and Zola were all big literary influences on the later fiction of Thomas Hardy, Henry James, and even Edith Wharton. And Zola seems to have been the first writer of this group to actually use the term "naturalism" for the style of writing that addressed social issues and conditions, frankness in describing sexuality, and pervasive pessimism.

Personally, I think it would be fun to set up a 'project' like our "Dickens Project" and spend two or three years slowly making our way through Zola's series (there's, what, twenty of them?).

Christopher wrote: "Personally, I think it would be fun to set up a 'project' like our "Dickens Project" and spend two or three years slowly making our way through Zola's series (there's, what, twenty of them?)."

20 novels and two or three years?! I think we can easily turn it into a Zola crash course. Let's say two or three months:-)

Jack wrote: "Hoping we'll start sometime in August."

Let there be Zola in August!

Sarah wrote: "Personally I'd prefer to read them in the publication order since this was how Zola intended them to be read...."

Sarah -- I don't understand your statement, since Zola himself published a slightly different recommended order (see earlier posts)?

Happy Bastille Day!

My reference for Zola's recommendation is Wiki, which says Zola gives his recommended reading order in the introduction to Le Docteur Pascal, the final novel in the series.

Jack wrote: "That's 'reading order'"

Jack -- do know that you can go back and edit your own posts by choosing "edit" in the lower right.

Jack wrote: "Thanks Lily. Didn't know that."

Jack -- believe me, I know how useful it (the editing feature) can be! [grin] And, sometimes it is better to do a second post, especially if someone has already commented or readers aren't likely to see the correction.

Edit? I'm more likely to be surprised if I don't have to edit a post.