fiction files redux discussion

. . . since i finished 'west of here' i've been slightly obsessed with westerns, mostly because i hadn't read many before i wrote the book, and i'm fascinated to see how other modern writers treat the material . . . i'm reading a great western right now called "missy" by scottish playwright chris hannan . . .the irresistible voice reminds me a bit of matty ross from true grit, but a little bawdier . . . also, i want to read deadwood . . .

FYI, here's the publishers review coverage of "missy" which came out last june:

This wildly entertaining first novel from Scottish playwright Hannan takes place in the down and dirty Wild West and features one of the most bombastic, fantastic heroines in recent memory. Nineteen-year-old Dol McQueen is an intelligent, strong-willed hooker with a weakness for liquid opium, or "missy." "Sometimes when I'm gonged," says Dol, "I have an immense feeling inside me that I can govern Chaos." And chaos is just what she gets when a crate of choice opium lands under her bed, stashed there by a grisly pimp called Pontius who warns her to keep quiet. Dol carries on with her business and gets increasingly attached to that fortune beneath her bed. The real pandemonium is unleashed when a spooky, brutal gang enlisted by the rightful owners of the opium arrives in town bringing mayhem. Dol-along with her mother, Pontius and the opium-flees into the desert, the escape slowed by lack of water, mule-pinching Indians and Dol's withdrawal from her missy, an experience that leaves her clearheaded but vulnerable to the truth about what she has become. Hannan nails the setting, crafts a sizzling plot and, with Dol, gives readers a lovable, larger-than-life star.

Hmm, looks like Flannery O Conner is trying on her newest cowgirl hat, yee-ha?

It would be interesting to see how a Scotlander would do a regular American western.

. . . he handles it quite masterfully, as far as i'm concerned . . . it feels lived . . . the language is so wonderfully colloquial . . .

jonathan, have you read Warlock by oakley hall? sources say this may be the best western ever written. it is on my pile for the next group of 10... :D

. . . i'll put warlock on my list!

It seems obvious, but you have The Border Trilogy on your short list I would assume? Read it and turned around and re-read it this winter. The dialog is actually, hold the presses, funny in places; a very dry cowboy wit that Mr. McCarthy.

What is Zane Grey about?
How is Larry McMurtry (Lonesome Dive, Streets of Laredo)?

mm

JE - Deadwood is a great choice - Dexter is underappreciated - Doctorow's Welcome to Hard Times is also pretty good

I liked (and I think Ben liked)Tom Franklin's Smonk though it's a tad lurid

. . . okay, so deadwood makes the list, too, thanks, matt . . . i read welcome to hard times about five years ago and remember liking it quite a bit (though not as much as ragtime). . .

I don't think you can go wrong with McMurtry. Lonesome Dove is brilliant.

Michael wrote: "It seems obvious, but you have The Border Trilogy on your short list I would assume? Read it and turned around and re-read it this winter. The dialog is actually, hold the presses, fu..."

i was so excited to find this at a library book sale and snatched it up and didn't realize until i'd gotten home it was the 3rd book. :P

oh, and my hands-down favorite western (and maybe book): The Hawkline Monster A Gothic Western. but you've probably already read that.

I've tried a few novels by Louis L'Amour. The only one I could finish was Flint. It moved along without dragging; I remember the realistic descriptions of fist-fighting.

The Western Writers of America have voted on their favorites. It's cool that they include Willa Cather. I've seen Elmer Kelton recommended in different places. Never heard of Dorothy Johnson, yet they love her short stories; and at the moment that's the length I would choose to explore in this genre.

Best Westerns of the 20th Century

The site has details about their conventions, so you might want to arrange for an upcoming Dorkapalooza to coincide with such an event. Everyone could wear cowboy hats and crash the party. "We're the book-lovin' Dorks and we're an ornery bunch!" It would help if you could look menacing without giggling.

Adrian... "It would help if you could look menacing without giggling." I giggled just reading this.

dorothy johnson is really good, i read a collection of her stories last year. they feel very real; possibly because she makes absolutely no attempt to impress you with unimportant, scenic details of researched western reality. she's very streamlined... everything is character in action. it's really very good. i was a big fan.

Adrian wrote: "I've tried a few novels by Louis L'Amour. The only one I could finish was Flint. It moved along without dragging; I remember the realistic descriptions of fist-fighting.

The Western ..."

here's the thing about that list: for best non-fiction no Son of the Morningstar - how am I to take such a thing as anything other than farce

Carmen wrote: "Cormac McCarthy is good and i do like the border trilogy. Few western writers capture the landscape as well as he does in that series. Blood Meridian is a western but it isn't. Its in my opinion anti western. IF a western is described as a novel that is about a specific time period, place and ethos at work then I think McCarthy injects twentieth century nihilism into a time period which was every bit as brutal as he describes, but had a different value system. In a way it seems anachronistic to me. "

Interesting angle to Master McCarthy's writing.

I was struck in the Border Trilogy, maybe in an opposite sense than you mean, with the interjection of 20th century technology/products into the story. There is something about one of his characters popping down a bag of M&M's which can cause time-travel induced nose-bleed.

mm

You know, I felt the same way while reading Blood Meridian. I didn't feel that I could ever pin down an exact time period. Even if he said when it took place (I can't remember if he had or not) it still felt anachronistic to me.

. . . so has anyone watched deadwood the series? is it good? should i rent it?

I've been told it's excellent. I mean, there are people who swear by it. But I watched a couple of episodes, and while they were good, I wasn't blown away.

(PS: Can I take advice or what?)

. . .thanks, duke, and welcome back . . haven't seen you in these parts since myspace!

Yes, well, they're not exactly the same parts anymore. I mean, it's kind of like a town that used to be in Missouri, and now it's in Idaho. But I always liked the town, so I don't much care care where the hell it is, so long as it is.

. . . my motto is: we're the jews of cyberspace . . . we wander the virtual earth bringing our wares with us . . .

Deadwood is excellent. The writing is amazing, the characters jump from the screen. I really enjoyed it.

One of my favorite characters was the hotel manager, played by the guy who was the first Darryl on Newhart. He has these Shakespearian soliloquies that are just ... amazing.

And Calamity Jane. And the saloon owner whose name I can't recall just now.

At its core, I thought, it was about unbridled human nature, steeped in Rousseau's nasty, brutish and short assertions about us as a species, and the arrival of the rule of law/negotiation of the social contract... just as the series Rome was about the decline of a great civilization...

. . .okay, i'm totally sold, shel, thanks for the excellent breakdown . . . i always loved that actor from newhart, the dude was hilarious . . . it's the guy that was always a downer at the group therapy sessions, right? the guy that has sort of a charles grodin vibe?

Here's the cast:

http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/cast/

I'm referring to William Sanderson, who plays EB Farnum

Of course there's also Timothy Olyphant, always hot, wait I mean excellent; the doctor is great; Wild Bill is well-represented; and the character of Joanie Stubbs, I really liked a lot too.

You're making me want to bump up a couple of seasons into my Netflix queue.

the first year of the series basically covered the historical events surrounding the shooting of Wild Bill - which is also the subject matter of Dexter's Deadwood - in fact the tone is very similar in both and when I first saw the series (which I also enjoyed) I imdb'd around looking for some connection (to no avail)assuming Dexter's book had served as inspiration

. . . oh, i assumed dexter's book was the influence, as well!

I alway have been an admirer of 'Shane' a fine two sided novel that covered the western theme in slightly under two hundred pages. Even the bad guys, gosh they need the work!