SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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Does writing reviews give you more insight?
I dunno if its helped me - my reviews seem to consist of either "it rocked" or "it sucked". Maybe I need to embrace that side of me...



But actively reviewing (which is more than thumbs up or down) isn't the only way to go. If you're participating in a thoughtful discussion it brings the same effect for me.

I mostly write reviews with the secret hope of writing one so good that the like count gets into triple digits.
But my general principle of rejecting random friend requests and keeping my friend count low, works against that.
Then again a few of my reviews how somehow hit on the magic algorithm Good Reads uses for non-friend reviews putting me in the top 5, which has in turn led to random people liking them.
And no that it's no longer a secret..it shall never occur.
Of course I can all but guarantee David Sven will like my reviews, no matter how bad I think they are ^_^

the other bonus, for me, is that i have a whole bunch of partially read series laying around that i might not get to the next book for quite some time. a review reminds me how i felt about the previous book in the series, which puts me back in the frame of mind to read the next one.



Move forward 35 years, and I joined a reading club - I found then that having to think and articulate what I felt about a book actually enhanced how I regarded that book.
Now on Goodreads I find that I am actually constructing parts of an intended review in my mind as I am reading the book. Looking at a book with a critical eye has enhanced my enjoyment of some books now.

On liking a book I'm not sure it's much easy, like characters, plot, book had me turning pages so pacing was good... But a book can have all those things and I might not have liked it.
Hopefully I'll get better with time. It is making me a better writer. I'm more aware of what I want to do (or not do) in my own writing.

OTOH, if you can SAY why you did or didn't like it, much useful discussion can be generated.

A single book may have wildly different reviews based on the person who reviews it and the criteria they use. I may find myself agreeing with their reasoning or disagreeing with it based on their justifications. Sometimes I will pass on a book because because of a positive review because I don't think the reviewer gave valid reasons for recommending it.
Of course writing a simple "I liked it. It was good." review is fine, but not as helpful as giving the reasons behind that assessment.

I'm never entirely sure what I think until I've written it down... sometimes more than once. It not only helps me figure out what I think, but upon occasion why I think it. Hence, I journal, write reviews of books I've finished, participate on the occasional message board. Things like that. It helps to coordinate the ideas, and sometimes even lead to conclusions that I might not have reached--or that would have taken a lot longer--in some other form.


That's a cool idea.


This. I learned what my likes and dislikes are where previously it was all just a blurry feeling. Now I can say with good precision what I like in a book, which helps a lot with finding similar books.

While writing reviews helps me to clarify my reaction, I don't know how much insight I get from the process-- my reactions shift too much. For me, blabbing about a book in a review controls my compulsion to talk about it 'irl', and since most of the people I know don't read fantasy, this is very helpful indeed. I also enjoy writing my response to what sometimes feels like a massive author-to-reader monologue.
Writing might not help me, but reading other peoples' reviews tends to give me a lot of insight into all the perspectives I missed. After I write my review, I tend to browse reviews to see what other people saw in the book.

Mind you, I have been pretty scathing about a couple of so-called classics, but that didn't matter, as the books were so well received and the authors were well and truly dead.
I never read other reviews before I write mine, and I always try to write mine as soon as possible after reading.
Interesting thread, Penny. Thank you.

Having read a lot of other peoples reviews after writing my own its also really interesting seeing what others pick up but you didn't prime example being my favourite books of all time The Dresden Files, now I'll openly admit I 5 starred every one of those books and I didn't think they could put a foot wrong. But where I found a lot of the main characters actions in my opinion to be chivalrous in nature in his interactions with the female characters in the early books. I found to my shock and awe, that a lot of others perceived his actions to be chauvinistic, and in future books it made me examine all the interactions a lot more closely.

Moreover, characters are not a mirror image of the author.
SF are future scenarios. Who can say if on 50 years everybody will be chauvinistic, or worse. I could easily imagine the US going back. Some politicians are fanatically fighting women reproductive and other rights.


One other beneficial aspect of writing reviews: it forces me to be more charitable and find what's good. Now, I don't hold back my punches on poor writing, especially manipulative writing. Writing, however, is really hard and it behooves us all, authors, reviewers and readers for reviews to be constructive. Don't gloss over issues, but just like that teacher passing out the red ink on mistakes and no ink on praise, we find what's right. This usually is easy. Sometimes it takes discipline. That discipline helps both our thinking and writing.

Sounds like something from the "Everybody Gets A Ribbon" school of thought.
While I suppose that's nice, it's the opposite of how I do it. I'm not the teacher or the editor. I'm the audience and consumer. Justify my purchase and don't waste my time.


I don't give a damn how hard it is to write. If someone has wasted my time, I'm going to call a spade a spade. I'm not to encourage them to keep trying, because that's not my job.
If you're in a writing group, that's one thing. Be encouraging and helpful and go-team. But in a published work? Nah. If an author asks me for constructive criticism, I'll give it, but just in a review of what I did or didn't like? I'm not going to hold anyone's hand just because their job is hard.

A review is an expressed opinion, Trike. Any author who takes offence and makes his displeasure public is clearly not being very mature or realistic. A good author will recognise those reviews (if any) that are by trolls. Any valid criticism has to be valued for the positive effect it could have on future writing. You carry on telling it the way you see it, why shouldn't you? You're the paying customer, after all.


To address reviewing in terms of writing:
I'm not an author, but I am in the process of writing up my PhD. I'm a far better writer now than I was when I started and I attribute part of that progress to writing reviews. If I go back and read my first reviews, they were short and not very insightful. As time goes on, they get better (in my totally biased opinion!). The same is true for my work. Writing does not come naturally to me and I've had little practice since almost all of my previous studies were in mathematics. The extra practice has been essential in improving my ability to communicate ideas on paper which has made my thesis that much easier to write. More importantly, I no longer hide behind the idea that "I'm bad at writing". It may sound silly to some, but reviewing books and being active on this site has made such a big difference to my confidence in my ability to write, and communicating clearly is half the battle in a PhD. I might have to include GR in my acknowledgements :P
On the topic of authors responding to reviews:
I've never experienced this myself, but I've seen and heard some awful stories on GR about abuse after giving a bad review. I would throw my toys if it ever happened to me. It's bad behaviour of a type I could not tolerate. That said, I'm as quick to judge a reader as I am an author when reviews or comments are out of line. Being nasty just because you can or because you took some issue with something that was said or done or something you read on the internet is not acceptable behaviour. I think there's a difference between having a negative opinion and being unnecessarily mean.

To address reviewing in terms of writing:
I'm not an author, but I am in the process of writ..."
Your writing will be improving due to your reviews, Penny. Writing, rather like any creative process, is improved by practice, so the more you do, generally speaking, the better you become at it. Hope your thesis goes well.

I really enjoy readers who have taken the time to write a well thought out review. It does get me thinking. And I'm with Penny, when she said that Goodreads has made her a better reader, though, I think it's due to the various bookclub groups that Goodreads hosts.

Surveying the works that I like I discover that I just cannot bear a stupid protagonist. If the hero is unduly dimwitted, I am out.
Another thing that I often do is notice that other works are similar to this one. The old "if you liked LOTR you'll love X" thing.

In any case, it's important to be able to answer "Why?" to an opinion. It's fine to have an opinion, but if you can't say why you have that opinion then... well, that opinion probably doesn't matter much. After all, if you have an opinion, but can't support it with "Why?" then why should anyone bother reading it?
I think this is particularly important for negative reviews. Here is "Why?" I think that: being able to answer "Why?" to a positive review is nice, supportive, maybe even informative, but answering "Why?" to a negative review can be constructive, meaningful or even a warning to other readers. It's like learning from your mistakes. You do learn from your successes, but mistakes are more powerful to the learning experience.

Good suggestions, Brenda. I do notice that I usually have more to say on 3 star reviews because there's usually an element of 'It would have been great if...'
There is definitely an art to writing reviews. Sometimes I get more enjoyment from reading the reviews of a book then the book itself (the bad ones anyway).

So true, Gary. And those constructive reviews are the most helpful. I've noticed that some reviewers seem to attack the author instead of offering constructive criticism about the book and giving the 'why'. I find these types of personal attacks the least helpful as a reader who is trying to determine if a book is for me.

A book that is complete is like a kid that has graduated college and gone off to start their life. You may see them frequently and keep up on their doings, but you can't be responsible for their actions any more.

I did know an author who read her reviews and based on constructive criticism, she went back and tweaked her ebook, which I really admired.
On the flip side, the author had one lady who wrote quite a nasty review and then basically started stalking the author online: posting on every review site, blogs, joined the author's peer review and actually got kicked out of it because of comments, etc. In a case like this, the author is in a difficult position. I jumped in and engaged the nasty reviewer in conversation, but she was just overall, pretty mean-spirited and enjoyed tearing into people.

Eh, that's hard to do when the reviewer is stalking the author and making claims that all the good reviews were from the author's friends.

Yeah, personal attacks aren't very useful. "I liked it" or "I didn't like it" doesn't help me much as a reader either. I usually look for the negative reviews and see if the person gives reasons for not liking something that I can agree with. If they say something about a book that they didn't like but that sounds like a good idea to me then that's a great indication that I'd like it.
The tone and writing ability of the reviewer is often helpful too. If someone writes a negative review, but makes it clear through their writing style or verbiage that they are not the kind of person I'd likely listen to, then I take that as a positive review.
I had a friend once who always hated the best movies. Nice guy, but his taste in films was abysmal. He always hated the best aspects of a movie too. He was like the Bizarro world version of Ebert or something. If he hated it, I'd always go see it, and he was never "wrong" in that sense. It was amazing.

One point about not reading a book that has some bad reviews: bear in mind that there are trolls amongst writers as well as readers and it is not unknown for some of these to attempt to destroy a writer's reputation by simply lying about their books. Not a frequent occurrence, but something to keep in mind, I think.


True enough, Brenda. Mind you, I reviewed 'Portrait of a Young Man', having found it puerile and self-obsessed and then confirmed it had been universally praised. I suspect 'Emperor's new clothes' here. But it does illustrate the point that universal acclaim ain't going to prove that everyone actually likes it.

I suspect that's an influence from the marketing mindset that seems to dominate our culture these days. It might be less the case for professional writers compared to others, but if so it is still a big influence. Marketing has transformed into a vapid "sales management public relations" process of pros and cons, black and white. The truth of public statements is not important, only that they support the product or not. Content is sublimated to the appearance of approval or disapproval.
What's more, we live in a time when the proliferation of opinions has exploded, and that's running headlong into the inevitable dilemma faced by the author. That is, the push-pull mindset of the artist, who must maintain a certain level of what I'm going to call "ego integrity" to work, but wants that work to go out into the public where it can be criticized in ways that could come back and haunt the artist. In order to create as an artist, you have to protect the mental bubble in which you create. That's particularly the case for writers whose process is more cerebral than other artists. Writers are almost entirely in their own heads where other artists have some sort of physicality to their work.
Imagine what Mark Twain might say if he were suddenly thrust into a world in which all the opinions of the high school kids who are required to read his books were suddenly thrust in his face. That famous, acerbic wit--and occasional braggadocio--could easily turn into a nasty target for troll bait.
Personally, my interaction with writers has been positive, and I'm more than a little surprised to hear about those writers who have responded badly to reviews from readers. It seems like a good way to expose a badly developed "ego integrity" and, therefore, someone who does not have what it takes to be a professional writer these days.
The first person who ever "liked" a review I wrote on Goodreads was Sharon Fisher regarding her book Ghost Planet. My review of her book was not particularly positive either (3 of 5 stars) so it took a well developed sense of "ego integrity" in order to support it.

How right you are, Gary, regarding the need to preserve the creative bubble in which we work as writers. Easily damaged before you reach that stage where your mental hide is Rhino thick.
I've received many very good reviews for my various works. In fact, I think I've only had one lower than 3 stars and even then the reviewer acknowledged that she was not a typical reader of the genre and had specific personal concerns that made parts of the plot difficult for her. So far, I've managed to avoid the personal insults typical of the trolls, so I guess I've been lucky.
I use quotes from reviews (naming the reviewer if possible) to entice new readers. I'd be interested in the opinions of other reviewers on this subject.
As for Mark Twain, I suspect he'd be equal to the challenge faced by most trolls: let's face it, the majority are not the most witty or literate of characters, are they?

They would be entertaining to read.... The young Sam Clemens would have been interesting. As an older man he become a bit of a crank, and those might have been a little rough.

They woul..."
I know him only from my reading of his work when I was a young man, too many years ago to contemplate now.

My issue with reviewing (and I actually did a lot for the LA Times Book Review in the 80s and 90s) was I am a fast reader---so sometimes, once done with the book, I'd have to go back and start picking it apart....which kind of bled the juice out of the whole reading experience (okay okay I got paid to do it!!). For a book I really liked---ooh it would be really hard to stay in my word count.....! For a book that really didn't' work for me, the same was true.
But the very hardest review to write (and still is)is for a book that was okay. All right. Somewhere in the middle. You don't want to damn it with faint praise---but you just don't know what else to say about it...(And then, once done, I'd look at it and wince: what a lame review). Did this help my writing? As someone said above, ALL writing helps you be more and more concise about your thoughts---except for reviewing!! For me anyway...I still review books for an online zine--mostly SF and fantasy...its called the Nameless ZINE. Sometimes I do read a book that just doesn't work. The plot doesn't, the characters don't. So what do you say? You voice your opinion. Its just yours---you aren't speaking for millions of silent voices...So a review is just one persons view (obviously) and I do find them helpful--because by the points they make you can say internally whether or not that resonates with you---and thus, make your own decision yeah or nay.

My issue with reviewing (and I actually did a lot for the LA Times Book Review in the 80s and 90s) was I am a fast reader---so sometimes, once done ..."
True, Arabella. Okay is...well, okay. Difficult to expand on that, as you say. I've never had to worry about word counts; I think I'd find that difficult. Though I was once asked by a publisher to become one of their reviewers. I prefer the freedom of just reviewing those books I choose to read; self-indulgent, I know, but great to know that whether or not you review is just your choice.
Books mentioned in this topic
Gone with the Wind (other topics)I Am Legend (other topics)
The Day of the Triffids (other topics)
The reason I give Goodreads so much credit is because I didn't think in terms of themes and world building and character development and so on before I started reading reviews on the site. That is not to say that every review is deep and thought provoking, but many are and narrowing that down is why having friends on GR is great.
I would have known that there were some interesting ideas in The Day of the Triffids and perhaps even thought more about it when it came up with friends, but writing a review gave me insight into my own thoughts that I may not have had otherwise. (This is a bad example since it's a club book so we'll be discussing it and that would have served to tease out a lot of interesting ideas, but still.)
Writing reviews, coupled with paying more attention to some aspects of the writing while reading a book, is how I feel that goodreads has made me a better reader.