Into the Forest discussion

The Bechdel Test came from a web comic.

It was originally a rule-of-thumb to gauge how woman are depicted in movies.

There's three questions - which is really more like one long one.

a)Is there more than one woman?
d)Do they talk to each other?
c)About something other than a man?

Its actually really surprising how many movies and novels fail the test!

Melanti wrote: "The Bechdel Test came from a web comic.

It was originally a rule-of-thumb to gauge how woman are depicted in movies.

There's three questions - which is really more like one long one.

a)Is there ..."

and once you're familiar with it, you can never read a book or watch a movie again without applying it, lol. It's brilliant, really.

Sorry, meant to link that: Bechdel test. The Guernsey book has more than one named female character, and they do talk to each other (through letters), but so far it's been mostly about men. Still good, though -- I like the post-WWII setting, and the main character is a hoot. She throws teapots at rude journalists :)

I'll be interested to see what you think by the end but from my memory, I definitely think that it passes the test! The beginning section (with the teapot :) which I also liked) is quite different from the rest of it once it really gets into the Guernsey side of things.

Lacey wrote: I read "American Gods" (which is my favorite Gaiman book so far) when I took my second trip to the House on the Rock -- very surreal.

I lived for two years in Spring Green, WI many years ago and never went to the House on the Rock. We're going to go on one of the tours this summer. I also never went to Taliesen. That will be remedied as well. We're going to the Shakespeare festival, but that wasn't there when I lived there. It was a mime commune then, where I lived and studied.

Update after the trip: we went on the shortest, least expensive tour of the House on the Rock, we got to see the house, and the weird discordant mechanical instruments playing music oddly, and the infinity room. We didn't see the carousel, but we saw the dolls, well some of them, and carvings.

We only went to the gift shop at Taliesen, which was okay. We saw the building and other buildings in downtown that were designed by Wright or his students.

The Shakespeare festival, also modern plays, American Players Theater, but we saw a splendid "Comedy of Errors," it's on the same road as the resort for the House on the Rock. Where I studied mime is elsewhere in Spring Green.

I'm about a third of the way through Roses and Rot. Has anyone else read this? I only pop in here every now & then, so if it's already been mentioned, I apologize, but was interested in hearing any thoughts on it. My library has a 'sf' label on it, but I believe it is more fantasy (they probably don't have a fantasy label). From a sentence--"The day was Bradburyesque and golden". I think she might have coined that word (new to me anyway), but it made me realize that it did remind me of his writings. Something Wicked This Way Comes in particular, though it's been years since I read that. Anyway, rather than a typical 'wicked stepmother', there is a wicked mother, so I was intrigued and have been enjoying it so far.

Patricia wrote: "I'm about a third of the way through Roses and Rot. Has anyone else read this? I only pop in here every now & then, so if it's already been mentioned, I apologize, but was intereste..."

Someone mentioned it last month. Margaret, I think? But it sounds fantastic.

I noticed it went on sale yesterday morning (Amazon for $2) and snatched up a copy - though I haven't had time to read it yet.


I dabbled with reading a bit of The Original Folk and Fairy Tales of the Brothers Grimm last year, and noticed that in the first edition versions of the stories, it often was a mother, and not a step mother. That somewhat surprised me.

I started Someplace to Be Flying yesterday, but I don't have it in audio, only print.

So, for audio, I've been listening to a lot of short fiction from Audible's new Channels feature.
Next up on my list is Bartleby the Scrivener, which I'm looking forward to.

Yesterday, I attempted Hearts, Keys, and Puppetry, which claims it's by Gaiman, but he only wrote the first sentence. The rest of it is by "the Twitterverse" - meaning Gaiman's fans wrote it 140 characters at a time. It's not quite as disjointed as it could be - given that it has 100+ authors, but it's really not worth wasting your time on.

I signed up for a new audible membership an month or two ago, and I'm trying to decide whether to keep it or cancel it again. On one hand, most of what I've been "reading" lately has been whispersynced audio, so that's one good reason to keep it. But on the other, I've got several months worth of backlog to go through, so I don't really need it.

I was hoping the Channels feature would sway me one way or another, but it's turning out to be a bit like pot luck - some of it's really great, but other stuff isn't. Not enough to sway me one way or another.

Patricia wrote: "I'm about a third of the way through Roses and Rot. Has anyone else read this? I only pop in here every now & then, so if it's already been mentioned, I apologize, but was intereste..."

Yes, I read it earlier this month (or the end of last month), and really enjoyed it! Here's my review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

It would make a great group read, maybe if the Fae were ever nominated as a theme.

I finished Throne of the Crescent Moon yesterday, but didn't like it as much as I thought I would.

I've also started Summerlong by Peter S. Beagle, and while it started out slow, I'm enjoying it more and more the farther I read.

Today, I'll start a poetry collection give to me by a friend--Modern Life--and then I'll start Someplace to Be Flying.

Patricia wrote: "I'm about a third of the way through Roses and Rot. Has anyone else read this? I only pop in here every now & then, so if it's already been mentioned, I apologize, but was intereste..."

Yes, after Margaret mentioned it last month, I ordered it. It sounds like something I'd love. My library puts SF and Fantasy together too.

Margaret wrote:"It would make a great group read, maybe if the Fae were ever nominated as a theme "

Roses and Rot was the reason I nominated Faeries as a theme for the next group read. Let's try again next time!

Melanti wrote: "I started Someplace to Be Flying yesterday, but I don't have it in audio, only ."

I am currently reading The Orenda. It's very good, but not for the squeamish, which I kind of am in regards to torture.
I usually just read one book at a time, but I think I am also going to start Someplace to Be Flying. I need something a little more light and fun for balance!

Thanks for all the responses concerning Roses and Rot. I agree it would make a good group read. Maybe someday!

Jalilah wrote: "Roses and Rot was the reason I nominated Faeries as a theme for the next group read. Let's try again next time! ."

I'll keep that in mind next go around!

Melanie wrote: "I'll be interested to see what you think by the end but from my memory, I definitely think that it passes the test! The beginning section (with the teapot :) which I also liked) is quite different ..."

I'm about 3/4 of the way through and it's wonderful. It isn't what I expected at all -- it's so much better :)

I absolutely love that book! I read it so many times as a kid and then was so disappointed in the movie. I think their names are about the only thing the same!

Yeah, the basic premise of the curse is the same although it annoyed me in the movie how it would make her do impossible things like freezing in mid air. Hard to imagine how she could keep it hidden from anyone in that case. I much preferred the way it was handled in the book. (Although that goes for everything, haha) :)

Finished The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society; liked it very much. Whizzed through The Watchmaker of Filigree Street (5 stars!) and am now deep into Arcadia (wow...)

The polls are open to vote for books about dragons for the next group read starting July 15!
Here's the link:
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/3...

Finished Arcadia (wow just wow) and Widow Barnaby -- what a character that woman is! Now into The Custom of the Country. Apparently I have a sudden craving for 19th century high-society novels.

I've never read (or even heard of) the novel Arcadia, but I really like it as a girl's name. (With the nickname Cady.) Unfortunately it was too 'out there' for my husband so it was vetoed.

At least I got to use it for the name of the kingdom in one of my novels instead :) I suspect a lot of rejected names will end up in my books (my husband and I have very different tastes so there have been a lot of vetos!)

Does the wow mean the book was good or just mindbending?

The winners of the Dragon Themed Group Read July 15-September 14 are:

Margo of the Forty Dragons for the original tale
Where the Mountain Meets the Moon for the YA novel
Adult novel: A Natural History of Dragons for the adult novel

The links to the discussion threads can be found here:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...

Melanie wrote: "Yeah, the basic premise of the curse is the same although it annoyed me in the movie how it would make her do impossible things like freezing in mid air. Hard to imagine how she could keep it hidde..."

Wow, yeah, that sounds a LOT different from the book!

Michele wrote: "Finished Arcadia (wow just wow) and Widow Barnaby -- what a character that woman is! Now into The Custom of the Country. Apparently I have a sudden cravi..."

Ooh, Edith Wharton! I haven't read that one yet, but I approve!


I recently finished Summerlong, which I really enjoyed.
Definitely mythic fiction, and it incorporates some characters from Greek mythology (view spoiler)[Persephone, Hades and Demeter (hide spoiler)].

And then I read Penric's Demon, which is a novella set in the same world as her The Curse of Chalion. Lots of fun!

Yesterday, I started Don Quixote, which is funny so far. It's sort of like reading an episode of Monty Python.

I'm sure I'll get tired of it long before the book is over, but I've got several novellas lined up in case I need to take a break.

Melanie wrote: "Does the wow mean the book was good or just mindbending? "

Both :) It really was excellently done. Complicated, and there are times that you simply have to trust where he's taking you, but he's such a tremendous writer that he carries it off.

Melanti wrote: "I recently finished Summerlong, which I really enjoyed. Definitely mythic fiction, and it incorporates some characters from Greek mythology..."

Can't wait to get to that one. I love Beagle as a writer. His The Rhinoceros Who Quoted Nietzsche and Other Odd Acquaintances is one of my favorite short-story collections.

Melanti wrote: "Yesterday, I started Don Quixote, which is funny so far. It's sort of like reading an episode of Monty Python."

*chortle* Great description :)

I am reading something I like very much, so far (page 69) Doctor Who: The Shakespeare Notebooks. The Doctor, Jamie and Zoe are the three witches in "Macbeth," in this version, for example.

Finished The Custom of the Country (she is not a nice person, this Undine Spragg), then zipped through Ready Player One -- a total 1980s nerdfest. As a child of the 80s I highly recommend it (xyzzy!!!). Now, have just started Night Pilgrims.

After finishing Someplace to Be Flying by Charles de Lint, which was wonderful, I went back to finishing The Orenda by Joseph Boyden. The violence in this book is very intense, but it's an excellent read. After it, I was in the mood for something lighter, but not fluffy. I read The Servant by Fatima Sharafeddine for a challenge I'm doing to read literature written by Middle Eastern women, but it ending up being prefect for what I was in the mood for!

I am still deciding what to read next.

I also recently finished Someplace to Be Flying, and should finish The Book of Heaven: A Novel tonight. Next, I plan to read Where the Mountain Meets the Moon, then Teaching to Transgress: Education as the Practice of Freedom, and then A Natural History of Dragons. I also need something on my kindle, but I haven't picked out what yet. Too many choices!

Taking a break from Night Pilgrims for a little Wodehouse (The Inimitable Jeeves and The Code of the Woosters). Given the news over the past couple of weeks, I feel the need to lighten up a bit.

I forgot to mention that I also read Parable of the Sower this week--in two sittings! Thanks for recommending that one!

Michele, I've been having trouble with reading as well, given all the violence in the world. It's only been this week that I've resumed my usual reading pace. And, oddly, what snapped me out of it was Parable of the Sower, a post-apocalypse novel that at this point seems all too possible.

Margaret wrote: "oddly, what snapped me out of it was Parable of the Sower, a post-apocalypse novel that at this point seems all too possible. "

Ah yes, such a great book. I need to re-read that. Over on Literary Darkness we're doing a group read of The Handmaid's Tale this month -- another post-apoc that feels all too possible :/

I read Linger yesterday and today am reading Forever.

I remember liking the first in the trilogy quite a bit (Shiver) but just can't get into these two - though they're pretty quick reads.

It's a twist on werewolf folklore where instead of changing during the full moon, they change due to cold weather and are only human when it's warm out (late spring/summer/early fall). And when they're in wolf form, they don't have any human thought or awareness.

The "villain" of the trilogy is a father in the town who lost a child to the wolves and is now advocating killing off the local pack. Terrible for the local werewolf pack - but can you blame the guy? They've had three or four wolf attacks - including multiple human deaths and multiple mysterious disappearances - in the past few years in one tiny town. It's got to be obvious to anyone with a knowledge of animal behavior that there's something horribly wrong with those wolves.

And another character is furious with her mother for daring to ground her for one entire week! The crime? Getting caught sneaking a boy into her bedroom late at night. How completely unreasonable! And how dare her parents suggest that her teenage romance isn't going to last for decades! It's TRUE LOVE!


Is siding with the adults more than with the teens a sign that I'm getting too old to read YA?

Melanti wrote: "Is siding with the adults more than with the teens a sign that I'm getting too old to read YA? "

Nah -- just gives you a new perspective :)

Melanti wrote: "I read Linger yesterday and today am reading Forever.

I remember liking the first in the trilogy quite a bit (Shiver) but just can't get into these two..."

Over the past few year this series has bbeen mentioned and I have been wanting to read it. However when I look at the reviews, it books like the first book was great, but almost all of the ratings go down with the other books. Losing a child is tragic, so it does seem unfitting to make the villein someone who lost their child to wolves.

I noticed the same author was a series about Ravens. I wonder if it's any better?

About siding with the parents in YA novels. Sometimes. It depends on the book. Being a mom has definitely changed my perspective on things. A lot of the YA just seems unbelievable to me, and not because of the fantasy, but because the way the teens are portrayed.

I just started The Icarus Girl and enjoying the first few chapters. Wow, I did not know that Helen Oyeyemi was only 19 when she wrote it!

Jalilah wrote: "I noticed the same author was a series about Ravens. I wonder if it's any better? ..."

Shiver stands alone well, so you could easily read that one and not the rest. I don't remember a lot of the issues I noticed in the last two being in the first. It's possible that if I'd read the whole series back-to-back instead of waiting so long, I would have liked it better. There was more to the girl's relationship with her parents, for instance, and it's possible those scenes in the first book might make the scenes in the later ones make more sense. And the guy in question was anti-wolf from the start of the series even before some of the recent deaths/disappearances started.


I enjoyed The Raven Boys but I don't remember it having much to do with actual ravens. "Raven Boys" is a nickname for all the kids that attend an exclusive all-boy school, and it centers on three or four of the boys and a female teen that lives nearby.

I actually don't remember exactly what it was about other than prophecies, ley lines and ritual sacrifice... And something about a teacher? Celtic mythology influenced, I think? It's possible there was more raven connections and I just don't recall.

Anyway, I did like it, but after how much I disliked Linger/Forever it'll probably be awhile before I try to continue on in the Raven Cycle.


I'm glad you're enjoying The Icarus Girl. And yes, Oyeyemi was very young when she wrote it!

I started The Fire Gospel last night, and am not liking it that much. I'm not too far into it but it's kinda cutesy and not really historically accurate or even plausible - and all of that is things I typically dislike. But I'm stubborn and I've been collecting that series so I'm determined to finish it. And it's short, so it shouldn't take too long.

I also started The Forgotten Garden, which I'm liking a LOT better. It's supposed to pay homage to The Secret Garden and fairy tales in general.

Melanti wrote: "Is siding with the adults more than with the teens a sign that I'm getting too old to read YA?"

Ha, I ask myself similar questions all the time. I think it just means that you haven't succumbed to arrested development. After all, at some point we *should* transition from siding with the kids to a more nuanced/mature perspective, right?

I belong to an "adults who read YA" book club, and every time we really rat on a book, the rant ends with something along the lines of, "Maybe that's just because we're too old and crotchety for this book." ;)

"Melanti wrote: "Is siding with the adults more than with the teens a sign that I'm getting too old to read YA?"

Ha, I ask myself similar questions all the time. I think it just means that you haven't succumbed to arrested development."

I agree with Lacey. YA books pepper my reading, especially the ones that were written when I was a kid. I love the language and it takes me back in time. I'm shocked at how many words and phases have fallen out of favor now -- really cool ones like 'Gee wiggles!' and 'golly', 'pell-mell', 'bitchen', and 'groovy'... Nineteen seventies anyone? ;-)

After Someplace to Be Flying something lighter was in order, so I'm reading The Girl Who Chased the Moon. Magical Realism floats my boat and I'm enjoying this, although Sarah Addison Allen is more sugary than I usually like. Then I got an audible credit and used it on The Secret Magdalene. It is very well written, feminist, complex, and hurting my brain a little.

Leann wrote: "Magical Realism floats my boat and I'm enjoying this, although Sarah Addison Allen is more sugary than I usually like. ..."

I agree! I like her work too, but I always save it for when I'm in the mood for something really light and happy.

Finished my initial Wodehouse digression, then read The Gallery of Lost Species which I had picked up off the "new fiction" shelf at my university library, knowing nothing about it. Not bad). Now back to Wodehouse: Jeeves in the Morning :)

Wodehouse looks like a fun digression!

The Spectator recently published a very funny piece called Jeeves and a Man called The Donald. If you like Wodehouse, you will appreciate it!

I've never read Wodehouse, but I'm thinking I should. :)

Leann wrote: "I've never read Wodehouse, but I'm thinking I should. :)"

You should. You definitely should. I suggest starting with The Inimitable Jeeves followed by Joy in the Morning. After that you will have met all the major players and can wander about at your own sweet will.

Alright. TBR'd. Thanks for the suggestions, Michele.

Katie wrote: "I have just finished the eighth Harry Potter book - Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. Enjoyed it very much."

Looking forward to it, very much!

I just finished The Icarus Girl and am trying to decide if I want to read A Natural History of Dragons or not.

I finished Teaching to Transgress: Education as the Practice of Freedom, and plan on starting A Natural History of Dragons tonight. I will let you know what I think!

Glad to know Harry Potter and the Cursed Child is good! A friend said he'd let me borrow it when he was done, so hopefully I'll be able to read it this week.

Jalilah wrote: "... am trying to decide if I want to read A Natural History of Dragons or not."

Awww, it's a fun book!

If it helps, it felt more like an alternate history rather than a entire alternate world.

It's basically Victorian era England and jaunts to Eastern Europe.
It seemed to me that Brennan basically just re-named her countries so that she didn't have to deal with people nitpicking history/geography and so she had a bit more freedom in her setting.

Finished The Gallery of Lost Species (well-written but rather grim), knocked off another Wodehouse (Jeeves in the Morning). Now embarking on Ken Liu's short story collection The Paper Menagerie and Other Stories. A friend pointed me to the title story when it was published in an SF anthology last year (?) and I was blown away by it, so am really excited to try more of his work.

Oh, I also finished Trigger Warning: Short Fictions and Disturbances and The Sleeper and the Spindle this week, and both were excellent. I imagine many here would enjoy them.