Pulp Fiction discussion

This month is Fadeout

That was a quick one! Good stuff, I really enjoyed it.

Agreed!

There was a lot to love about this book. I particularly enjoyed the large cast of characters potential suspects and Brandstetter's dad. (Does anyone know if he has a recurring role in the rest of the series?)

Writing about a gay investigator during a time period when literary sleuths were expected to be cavorting with as many bikini-clad or unclad females as possible strikes me as incredibly bold.

AND - I liked this line so much, I wrote it down: Some marriages should be called on account of darkness.

Fifty pages in. Really enjoying this so far. The prose is really smooth and the plot engaging.

Thanks for introducing me to another writer I'd not been aware of. Thought this was terrific - tight, expressive prise great characterisation, nicely plotted and the Hansen handles the homosexuality of the main character is superb and very, very clever. Completely matter-of-fact. Brandstetter's relationships (past and present) are written about in exactly the way a heterosexual relationship would be was making such a powerful point at the time - and, unfortunately, still is. Also the way this is paralleled by the events surrounding the investigation and the way the townsfolk throw around their prejudices, not realising they apply to Brandstetter too.

I couldn't help wondering if Val Kilmer's character in the movie Kiss Kiss Bang Bang - Gay Parry - is at all a reference to Brandstetter? If you've not seen that movie I highly recommend it.

I finished this last night and really enjoyed it. Great characters, each with a possible motive to muddy the waters. The writing was excellent and the story flew. Now I have another series to add to my TBR shelf. Great choice!

Paul 'Pezski' wrote: "... I couldn't help wondering if Val Kilmer's character in the movie Kiss Kiss Bang Bang - Gay Parry - is at all a reference to Brandstetter? If you've not seen that movie I highly recommend it. "

I'd not thought of that until now!

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is one of my favorite films and a totally neglected little masterpiece.
I've seen the movie twice and recently purchased a Blu-Ray reissue directly from Warner Brothers.

I love how the part of the lead character/private eye in the film-within-the film Robert Downey Jr is audtioning for is modeled after the Michael Shayne paperback entries even to the point of featuring mock-ups of those old Michael Shayne paperback covers.

Finished this last night and enjoyed it very much. I agree with all of the positive comments.

The only thing I found slightly disturbing was Anselmo. I was wondering if this was because the relationship was homosexual, but I think I would find it disturbing if he were having sex with a 17 year old girl also.

That aside though I really enjoyed the book. I had known about this series for a few years, but never looked into it, thinking that it sounded gimmicky to have a homosexual detective. I thought the homosexuality was handled very well.

Good point, Craig. Now I feel like a real sleaze for not having noticed and commented on the age thing.

No reason to, Melki. I may be more sensitive to such things as I am a school teacher (grades 8th through 12 / ages 13 to 18).

Craig wrote: "The only thing I found slightly disturbing was Anselmo. I was wondering if this was because the relationship was homosexual, but I think I would find it disturbing if he were having sex with a 17 year old girl also."

I think that also was deliberate; many detectives would have a fling with a young 'girl' (not counting the Sam Spade types who would sock her in the jaw) so, very much as with the relationship with Rod, having it as a gay relationship makes the reader either accept it as equivalent or question their own attitudes.

I don't disagree with the comment regarding reference to sex with minors, but as strange as it may seem since 1970 isn't that long ago, we are all more conscious of and culturally sensitive to such references now. I can think of three big budget Hollywood comedies of the 70's or 80's, that had jokes referencing sex with minors that wouldn't get by today: "The Blues Brothers," "National Lampoon's Vacation,(title?)" and "Animal House." I think you have to look at Fadeout the same way you might overlook references to race or gender in Hammett or Chandler, or Warner Brothers cartoons for that matter. We recognize the art and are conscious of how things have changed. Just a thought.

I agree, Jeff, to some extent. However, Dave does seem to indicate that Anselmo's age is a bit of a hindrance in their first meeting. Now, whether that is simply because of the difference in ages or that Anselmo is underage is unclear.

I read that as his feeling old and uncomfortable with younger men, as that is a recurring issue for him in other novels, but who knows? I just don't think "underage" was quite as sensitive issue on the social radar as it is now. Remember the Sinatra detective film "Tony Rome?' He tracks down a wealthy man's 15 year old daughter whom he finds passed out in a hotel room bed. Some guy comments "This is the one that's missing?" Rome's response: "She ain't missing much." Pardon my memory but that's close, I think. Again, would we see that in a mainstream film?

Jeff wrote: "I don't disagree with the comment regarding reference to sex with minors, but as strange as it may seem since 1970 isn't that long ago, we are all more conscious of and culturally sensitive to such..."


I think Jeff nails the question of age inappropriate relationships. Although the book was published in 1970, it's safe to assume it was originally written in '68 or '69. There are a couple of appearances by a family of dope smoking hippies so it's very much a late-sixties item.
As I said in my original review, the book makes a few dated pop culture references.What was acceptable then certainly isn't today.
Roman Polanski, anyone?

I was wondering if the name Polanski was going to pop up here. All I know is that if he had been a priest or that creepy guy down the block who lives with his mom, EVERYONE would have been screaming for his head.

But as far as the AGE thing goes...I don't recall ever meeting characters so obsessed with the ravages of aging. I assume this was a particular concern for the author, but it made for some interesting dialogue between Dave and his female friend, Madge.

Some days, looking in the mirror can be a pretty frightening experience.

As far as Polanski goes, a lot of people were screaming for his head, and he hasn't been able to re-enter the US since that time because of his actions.

But, otherwise, your point is well taken.

Well, for a while there, it looked like all might be forgiven. And I don't think not being able to enter the US has hurt his career much...but, back to the book.

Has anyone read any other titles in the series, or are you planning to?

So "Fadeout," besides its reference to film making, can also connect to the inevitable result of aging? It fits if what Melki is positing about the author.

Melki wrote: "...
Has anyone read any other titles in the series, or are you planning to?"

Yes -I read them all back in the '80s. I recall that they improved with each entry.
I eventually tired of reading the series after about six or seven entries. No idea why

I was struck by what you said earlier about the Brandstetter character's age obsession.
I think this was Hansen giving his character something quasi-existential to brood over the way Chandler had Marlowe brooding over whatever had happened that turned things sour between Marlowe and the D. A.'s office years earlier. That and various little asides about Marlowe being a recovering alcoholic.


It's coffee time again and I must stroll down these mean stairs.

Perhaps you should consider buying a Mr. Coffee for your bedside table?

I hadn't thought about the age theme, but the aged alcoholic mother (don't remember names and book isn't handy) certainly plays in there, as well as the surprising (to me) evidence of Thorne's father changing heart completely over the years.

Melki wrote: "Perhaps you should consider buying a Mr. Coffee for your bedside table?"

What!?

And miss having breakfast with my darling wife and the morning gambol for the New York Times?

(I live for Janet Maslin book reviews and Manohla Dargis film reviews plus the occasional if frustratingly infrequent pop culture commentary by the brilliant Megan Abbott)

Sigh...

I swear...every man on Goodreads has such NICE things to say about their wives. I think my husband thanked me once for washing his underwear, but a compliment...what's that?

They read about such alarming wives in pulp fiction that they appreciate more what they have!

That must be it!

I truly enjoyed this quick read. Well plotted, well written and bonus: the characters are realistic.

I looked at the Anselmo coupling with the fact of the time frame represented. Free love was rampant. Brandsetter's lapse was a selfish indulgence for both characters. So glad that Sawyer arrived to bring everyone back to reality.

Bought it read it enjoyed it, not the best I've ever read, far from the worst either

Brilliant! I come back after a few months and find people loving our group reads. This one was a real revelation to me back when I found it and again I'm so pleased you all seem to feel the same way.

The Anselmo thing felt very similar to Isherwood's reaction to the male student who he takes home in A Single Man, you all made very good points about age inappropriateness and the way heterosexuals tend to react if it was a female and I think the fact that two very talented homosexual authors make the same point backs up that theory. Being concerned about aging and wanting to be with fresh young bodies is something universal.

Personally I really want to read the full series but they don't seem to be readily available and there's only so many secondhand books a man can buy without actually reading some.