The Sword and Laser discussion

WARNING, THIS THREAD MAY GET SPOILER-Y!

I don't think anyone would disagree that they seemed out of place.(Or maybe you will, please feel free!) I'm curious what everyone thinks the point of publishing the codas was. I felt like they were just writing exercises, or DVD special features maybe? :) I wish I would have stopped reading for a few days to process the main story, then went on to read them later, if at all. Am I alone in this?

I enjoyed them. I always like knowing more about the people and places I'm reading about, and they felt like windows into the world that the main story only touched on otherwise.

Been reading comments since the book first came out, and many loved the codas best while many others hated them and wished they'd never been written.

It's a classic case of "Your mileage may vary."

I knew they were coming before I read the book, so it didn't come as a surprise. I don't remember feeling strongly pro or con, but then, it's been quite a while.

I enjoyed the first coda. I could have been fine without the other 2 though.

The anonawriter blog stuff had me cracking up a lot.

I admit, I did like the book 2% better once I knew Nick and Samantha ended up meeting. I feel kinda sappy saying that. :D

Deon wrote: "I admit, I did like the book 2% better once I knew Nick and Samantha ended up meeting. I feel kinda sappy saying that. :D"

I liked that part too. It was about the only part of that story I liked apart from when her sister set her up on a date with another woman.

[SPOILERS for sure.]

I disliked them a lot. I suppose I could consider them as behind-the-scenes looks, like special features on a movie, but that doesn't make me like them more. It actually makes me like them less since this is information and characterization that could have been woven into the story with more elegance.

They felt like an experiment that a student might try in a creative writing class. The real problem with the Codas (or my distaste for them, at least) is deeper than that. It has to do with overall structure of the book. Does the book deliver on what it's premise promised?

THE PREMISE
All the tertiary characters and extra members of a starship's crew--the Redshirts--seem to die at an alarming rate. One of the Redshirts, Andy Dahl, discovers something strange and very wrong is behind it all. Mutiny and hilarity ensue.

SCENARIO
Classic "ordinary dude with an extraordinary problem" story. Dahl is our protagonist, wants to save himself and his friends from untimely deaths, and has to stop the mysterious Narrative to do so.

ACT I
First 25% of book. Sets up characters, world, and establishes relationships between Dahl and the rest of the players. Lots of fun and games as we explore Star Trek tropes from a new perspective.

ACT II
25% mark to halfway point. Things get real as we explore the (literal and figurative) dark underbelly of this world. Jenkins helps us realize the danger. Still fun riffing off of old Sci-Fi situations, but with more tension and seriousness. The plan for their final showdown is set and the clock is ticking (6 days).

ACT III
Halfway point to 75%. Here's where I almost yelled out loud, "A time travel episode! Woo-hoo!" Scalzi makes this fun even through the "Finale". Dahl and team go storm the Narrative's castle in order to defeat their antagonist and survive. Touching moments as the original premise of the story is delivered. It feels complete.

ACT IV? / SPECIAL FEATURES? / CODAS
Last 25% of the book. Now we follow non-protagonists. Now we get meta. Now we read exposition about storytelling itself and explore moral implications. (There was a nice glimmer of worthwhile story concerning Jenkins at the end, but I put that aside. I had to work really hard to get through the Codas to find that golden nugget.)

Why didn't it work? Because I was sold the premise of one book and then was delivered something else. I expected Galaxy Quest 2. (Go watch Galaxy Quest if you haven't already.) I got that, somewhat, but then had to slog through these weird experimental, meta essays on Narrative And The Moral Quandaries Thereof.

It's like going to see Transformers and getting Transformers melded with 50 minutes of Rabbit Proof Fence at the end.

Anyway, that's my humble opinion. 3.5 stars.

Joshua wrote: "Why didn't it work? Because I was sold the premise of one book and then was delivered something else."

That was exactly why it DID work for me. Yes it's a bit dischordant but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Towards the end of the novella I was feeling very "meh, is that it? 2-3 stars". It was funny and entertaining but not particularly engaging.

What the codas do is transform it from a quaint story about self-aware characters to a story about the meeting of two worlds. They are different worlds with different fallouts and require different tones. That's why I like that they're separated, I couldn't imagine them working the same interwoven.

Maybe that doesn't work for some people but it certainly worked for me. I felt that the codas added a strange harmony and some welcome complexity. Definitely turned a soft 3 into a 5 for me.

I read the first one and skimmed some of the second and then quit :P. I only kind of liked the main story-so I couldn't bring myself to care about the "bonus" material.

That is a good point about the worlds requiring different tones, however you mention, Matthew, the fallout. That is something I didn't think we got to see in the world of the Intrepid. Granted "they all LIVE happily ever after" is kind of the ending, but when they continued on to allude to Hanson's role in the story, I felt like the whole ending had been pulled out from under me. Maybe that put me in a bad mood for the codas.

What the heck was up with that?! It seemed so silly, as if the author himself said "oh, whoops, I forgot about Hanson", and so thought up some mystical sounding, but in my opinion, discordant way to give him a larger role. The more I think about it, the less I like the book, honestly. I find the first of chapter 23 VERY telling..." “So what now?” Duvall asked. "

Heh, I'll quit complaining now. I really DID enjoy the read a lot.

I really liked them. I thought they wrapped the story up in an unexpected and interesting way. They give a different perspective on the fallout from everything that happened up to that point.

But since it was so different in style from the rest of the book, I can certainly understand why some people dislike them.

If it's a spoiler thread, do we need spoiler tags? I have no idea what anyone is talking about because I am on vacation and have to use the mobile app.

I remember thinking the joke was getting tedious in the first patt. The codas earnef the book an extra star in my opinion.

Good point, I edited to remove mine.

While I didn't mind the codas in and of themselves, I'm not sure I enjoyed reading them right after the story. It was a bit anti climatic, like how some people feel about the end of the "Lord of the Rings". I was already a bit let down by the very end of the regular story, so that probably didn't help either. I usually really think Scalzi nails the ending, but the whole meta protagonist thing just didn't do it for me on this one.

I think I would have agreed with you, John, had the ending itself not been so anti-climactic. I probably would have dwelled on that more, but then in swept the coda's and I loved them, especially the 1st one. I found them entertaining and thought they wrapped up things nicely; gave me more information on what happened next without disrupting the end too much. And they were fun. :)

Didn't care for the codas. As John said, it reminded me of the end of Return of the King - it just kept dragging on.

The codas threw me off as it was a complete switch of gears after the story ended. At first I didn't care for them, but sort of appreciated them more as I took them for what they were vs a continuation of the story (which I'm sure that was the intent).

Overall just so-so for me.

The codas were a little jarring at first because of the style change but I got used to it. I realized too that while the rest of the book was showing how what the present time "real" people did affected the "fictional" people, the codas showed how what the "fictional" people did affected the "real" people. Maybe the mood shift helped highlight that.

I was Googling this book and found this gem: three codas - tricodas

Hahaha

When I first started reading the codas I didn't much care for them. But as a writer, or someone who tries to right, I really appreciate them. They had a "Stop screwing around with your life/work and commit to it" message that I like. It was disorienting because I didn't see that coming out of a book that paritied Star Trek no-name characters dying. But that's why I keep coming back to Scalzi's books. They are goofy and fun, but smack you with something deep. I thought Nick and Samantha meeting up was stretching it, but the codas made sense to me.

Caitlin wrote: "I was Googling this book and found this gem: three codas - tricodas

Hahaha"

OMG how did I miss that! lol

I didn't care for the codas. I enjoyed the book, but the codas just kept dragging on.
I finished the main book in an afternoon, but i couldn't bring myself to finish the codas. Well, maybe another time.. .

I wasn't that crazy about the codas. It felt like he had some story ideas he really liked but they didn't fit with the regular novel, so he threw them in at the end.

But, I like the story of the last coda. I just think there could have been a different way to add it in.

For me, the Codas made the story beautiful.

i love the codas ! they go deeper into the implications of the plot premise, adding a substantial meaning to the book. also i founded extremely emotional, an conected with those caracters more that with any of the characters from the main story.

D3a, that right there, I believe, is why I didn't like them. They connected more, or in a way maybe a comedy doesn't allow for. I found the codas touching, when I wasn't prepared to be touched. I felt it was a bit invasive for the mood that was already set up.

Deon wrote: "D3a, that right there, I believe, is why I didn't like them. They connected more, or in a way maybe a comedy doesn't allow for. I found the codas touching, when I wasn't prepared to be touched. ..."

Note to Scalzi - Stop Touching me!

That is exactly it! He spent the whole book saying "I'm not touching you...not touching you...Iiiiiii'm not touching you!" Then WHAM!, touched. Finger right in the ear.

Nope, parallel ends there. A finger in the ear is never as good as a touching short story you weren't expecting.

I liked the Coda's. I thought it was a good way to show another side to the story which I hadn't expected to see. I kind of thought that it would get to the point where the Intrepid crew met the writers, told them to stop being dicks and killing off people for no reason, they would write them a happy ending and that would be that. I had not expected to see the aftermath of how the 'real' people they met up with coped after the fact.

The first Coda was definitely the strongest of the 3 as the writer coping with the guilt of killing so many and struggling with that was the most interesting story. I would actually have liked this to be longer.

I didn't get much out of the codas. It didn't ruin the book for me, but it didn't really add anything either. More than anything else the codas felt unnecessary.

I just finished reading Captain Vorpatril's Alliance since I'm trying to get through all of the Hugo nominations. It has an epilogue as well, but it seemed to hit me better. It was a bit more traditional. It first caught you up with the 2 main characters and then, through them reading letters, the rest of the minor ones. It was just a nice, short wind down.

I would agree with most. The codas don't fit in with the book. The primary story is the Union story and I think the reader simply isn't as invested in the "real" people.

But there is a beauty and depth to the "romance" that Scalzi sets up in the codas. It tells a very different story from the rest of the book. But I rather enjoyed that little extra emotion Scalzi tacked onto the end.

D3a wrote: "i love the codas ! they go deeper into the implications of the plot premise, adding a substantial meaning to the book. also i founded extremely emotional, an conected with those caracters more than with any of the characters from the main story..."

I think that's why I liked the codas themselves for what they were but I think they twisted the main section of the book off-center and in a discordant way. Each of the characters in the codas felt more real than Dahl, Duvall, Hester, and company. They had less "screen time" but felt more fully realized and I'm certain that was intentional.

The main characters of the book are still redshirts even through the end of their own book. They're characters whose humorous adventures we enjoy and then they go away. The codas are different. I felt like he used himself as a stand-in for Coda 1; wrote Coda 2 as a message to a college-age kid he knew; and wrote Coda 3 as a love note to his wife. I felt like Scalzi wrote the codas as if the characters were real but not the characters of the main section. Dahl is a typical blank-slate protagonist - did he ever do or say anything that made you say "I know that guy" as opposed to "I could be that guy"? Duvall was even more unreal to me - a funny and interesting character for sure but did she feel like any person you've ever met?

But, I think that Scalzi's story isn't complete without the codas. I might have liked it just fine without the codas but it wouldn't have been finished i his head. The codas take the meta all the way full circle by showing that the thinness of the "main" characters was on-purpose.

I loved them, for me the ending can make or break a good story, and just a regular ending following the redshirts would have made it redshirts and average, fun but unremarkable story, I think I understand when some people resent the Codas because of the change of pace and temperament in the narrative (specially the second and third one), but it allowed Scalzi to close those open topics and explore very interesting implications and ideas.

I was really moved by the second and third ones specially, and thought that it was very interesting that Scalzi was exploring the question of souls and identity in clones, specially because this is also explored in Pandora's Star which was another of the candidates for this month.

Deon wrote: "WARNING, THIS THREAD MAY GET SPOILER-Y!

I don't think anyone would disagree that they seemed out of place.(Or maybe you will, please feel free!) I'm curious what everyone thinks the point of publi..."

Honestly, they were may favorite part and redeemed much of the novel for me. The first half got very stale with its parody and constant butting up against the arbitrary unfairness of the plot. The codas actually unpacked responses to that in dynamic ways, usually much less funny, but still keenly interesting. I never would have expected them to wrap up the way they did. Pretty much all of my fond memories about the book are actually about the codas.

I thought the Codas were well done. I liked the additional insight they provided on what were bit characters up to that point. Had the story ended at the the natural end point, I would have still liked the story, but the Codas take this book from like to love for me.

The emotion Scalzi brings to the story with the Codas really sold me on this book. The final Coda in particular was very moving. I listened to the audio book, and Wil Wheathon did an excellent job with the letter towards the end. I am not ashamed to say I shed more than a few tears, as that particular part really hit home with me in a personal way.

I can understand that some people find the Codas jarring, or unnecessary, but I feel they added a lot to the story.

I'm with John and Eddie. They summed up my feelings about the Codas better than I did.

I was really enjoying this book. I was expecting a fluffy satire of Star Trek, with a little bit of meta fun. It then turned out to be a very hilarious, thoughtful satire of Star Trek, with a very serious treatment of the meta premise. Then I got to the codas.

They seriously blew me away.

If the novel proper had been simple fluff, they would have been out of place. But the entire novel has fun with the insane premise while also taking it seriously and taking the time to examine how real the people are who are affected by all of this. And then we close by showing from the flip side how people are affected by this crazy fourth wall breaking adventure. And we are never given the kind of nonsense faux philosophical crap that we get with other fun fourth wall stories, like Stranger than Fiction. We just get some really great, honest, excellently written passages about how these characters have all been touched by what has happened.

It elevated this book from a really excellent piece of humor to a really great book, period, to me.

I'm with John on this. The codas helped complete an otherwise so-so story for me. Also, I usually enjoy getting more backstory.

I enjoyed the book, but not-so-much the first 2 codas. The last coda was a great story ending to the book and was by far the best portion of this entire book (for me). The moment she in the ocean with the ashes, was one of great clarity. I kind of wish there were more scenes like that in this book.

I totally loved the codas. I think they were some of the best writing in the whole book. Especially the last one. Very nice touch to the end of the book.

I thought the codas were kind of pointless. Didn't really add anything to the story for me other than extra reading time after it was already finished. Also, I thought the second and third codas didn't really fit the overall tone of the book.

For me, the codas elevated the book from amusing to emotionally engaging. The contrast really caught me by surprise.

I quite enjoyed the codas. Where the story was engaging and this awesome journey through characters, it wasn't much more than a breaking the fourth wall kind of episode in the television show.

I felt like the codas allowed the reader to explore the other universe in a way that wouldn't have been available had they not been there. In the story we followed the Redshirts in their Intrepid reality. Even when we went to the past(present) it was as outsiders. We saw those stories as minor characters in the main story.

I think part of the overall book is that while there is always a main storyline, the minor characters have their own storyline somewhere else. I thought the codas were a nice way to tie the characters into existence. It allowed me to have a connection to them as well.

Also the third coda made me cry, in a sappy and romantic love will conquer all, including dimensions and parallel universes sort of way.

It seemed to me the codas were a way of adding content to the novel without making an effort to re-write the story. In this case, the content was just more silly pranks.

I thought the codas were wonderful additions the added depth to the story. The main story shows the struggle of the redshirts and is hilarious. The codas show the consequences of creating that struggle that becomes all too real. I liked that extra layer of depth and felt it elevated the story.

I'm coming a little late to this party, but I just finished yesterday and want to give my two cents.

I liked the codas. They all involve real people taking a good, hard look at their lives because of interactions with fictional characters. I think this might be Scalzi taking a brief look at why we read fiction. We can find truth and though-provoking ideas even in silly science fiction stories.