Christian Readers discussion
Mormonism: WHAT IS UP WITH THEM?
Chris quote:"The thief on the cross did not go to Heaven that day. He went to paradise."
Isn't this a fun verse? And a dangerous one? See what it leads to. All because of the placement of a comma.
Seriously think about that sentence: Who, while dying on a cross in extreme pain, makes the statement: "Truly I say to you today."
Yeah, I think we all get the idea that he said it that day. Jesus does not waste words. But anyway...
Paradise is a place where God dwells. Just like the Garden of eden, the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:3) and again (Revelation 2:7)
IF Jesus is God? (and he IS the one and only God) then death is to be with Jesus/God/Holy Spirit.
Chris quote:
"Deureronomy 4:29 teaches that if we seek God with all our heart then we will find Him. If you seek God with your heart..."
The problem with this verse is: It doesn't mention that many people seek God - but not with their hearts. They selfishly seek a god of their own understanding who will give them their desires and lusts.
Dueteronomy 4:28-29 And there you will serve gods of wood and stone, the work of human hands, that neither see, nor hear...But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your SOUL.
Many people lie to themselves.
Rod wrote: "Awesome, thank you Christopher. That is exactly what we needed to see. (a Mormon in action)Unlike many Christians: I do not respect other religions. I do not claim to be nice or respectful to any..."
I feel my heart burn when I read the Book of Mormon as well. The same way as when I read the Bible. Fruits of the Holy Spirit, as mentioned in the Bible, include love, joy and peace. Sure one may find temporary joy in other things, like riding rollercoasters or eating a cheeseburger, but the feelings I get when I read the scriptures leave a lasting impression and are fulfilling. I have sought God's direction in this and the Holy Spirit has testified to me in my heart and in my mind that it is true.
It should be noted also, that the Holy Spirit's ability to testify truth is not limited to times when one is reading the scriptures. It can happen during prayer or anytime we are seeking God's counsel. It can happen as you hear someone speak truth, as those who were converted on the day of pentecost. It can happen during prayer. Christ taught that the Holy Spirit would testify of Him. We could read something all day, but it is that witness that tells us it is true. You too can know that the Book of Mormon is true from a confirmation of the Holy Ghost. And actually, that is the only way.
Chris quote:"that the Holy Spirit's ability to testify truth is..."
You assume that its the Holy Spirit, why?
Every religion assumes they are right and the spirit of god is assisting them. God made Satan and demons for a reason. And they are busy fulfilling that reason. And people get the longings of their hearts by any means possible.
Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
There have always been dangerous times. That is why God gave us a Bible to remained focused. We need nothing more. The Word of God.
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Thanks Kymberly.Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it.
The next verse ROCKS!
10-11: "I the lord search the heart and test the mind. to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds...and at his end he will be a fool."
God warned us to be careful with our hearts and minds. He will test them and allow us our desires - to our own destructive ends. But he promises us we can trust his word.
Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.
That sounds simple and clear to me.
50 Christopher: Paul was Satan's advocate and he said by grace you are saved. That is not what Jesus said, He said you must be born again and that takes place physically, as Adam and Eve were changed physically when they sinned. Isaiah 14:13-14 Ezekiel 36:26-27 Happened to me after my heart that I was born with was removed and thirty days later I received the Holy Ghost or Spirit. St John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: (Jesus)if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (Paul)If Paul was of Lucifer who was Joseph Smith? How about the God Head being three seperated workers plus God who created all three. Spirit in Genesis, Jesus the Son of God, and the other Spirit or Holy Ghost not related to the other spirit. Instead of trinity quadruple.
There is no such thing as living His teachings you have to receive a new heart and after your body is clean to receive His Spirit (Holy Ghost) Ezekiel 36: 26-25-27 It was thirty days later that I received the Spirit. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new Spirit will I put within you:
Ummmmh Mickey? Quote:
"If Paul was of Lucifer who was Joseph Smith?"
You have some seriously messed up theology there Mickey. Be careful how you read the Bible. Be sure to read the WHOLE thing. If it is really from God then the entire Bible MUST fit perfectly (even Paul's writings). And it does...
58 Rod: That is what you here from the churches but truth is hard to come by. There is no money in the truth. St John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: (Jesus) if another, shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (Paul) 44 How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another, and seek not the honor that cometh from God only? Isaiah 14: 13&14 tells us Satan is in all the churches I'm not just picking on the Mormons ---I (Lucifer) will sit upon the mount (all) of the congregation, (Churches or religious organizations)---. Joseph Smith even wrote his own Bible, I know what I'm writing about using the King James Bible of 1611. You say there is no flaws Luke said go by all the Bible. Luke 4:4 but St Matthew said go by what Jesus or God said 4;4 MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD. Peter said water baptism is all you need but Jesus said you need to be born again and receive the Holy Ghost St John 3:3-5 Ezekiel 36: 26-25-27 Ezekiel never wrote it in sequence but it happened to me exactly the way it reads. I don't have the same heart that I was born with.
Luke said Mary was blessed, Jesus said she was no better than the rest of us. St Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, (SAVED) the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Only those that become saved can understand Jesus. St Matthew 13: 11 ---Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Joseph Emulated Paul when he said he saw the light in the woods as Paul said he saw the light on the road, neither one has any relation to being saved. IT DOESN'T FIT AS YOU BELIEVE AND YOU CAN SEND THIS TO THE POPE, Mu'law, or Salt lake City, Utah.
Thanks Mickey, Crazy stuff - but fun!Mickey quote:
" Paul said he saw the light on the road, neither one has any relation to being saved."
Anybody else want to jump in? I don't want to hog all the action for myself. :)
It seems for every 5 Christians I meet on the internet (and in real life) maybe 1 of them has a solid Biblical foundation. God sure allows us to see the endless chaos of denial and confusion about his word. It sure keeps me motivated and blessed. Just observing spiritual blindness is a blessing - and a curse at times.
So what do you think about Billy Graham Mickey? I'm curious.
56 Rod: Jeramiah 17:9 Who can know it? Those that become saved, those are the ownes that know it. because they have had their heart removed and replaced. Proverbs 30 5-6 Where does it say we can trust His word? That is true you can trust His Word but half of the Bible was written under the influence of Satan. Paul added to the Word of God and will be found a liar at the end time. St John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: (Jesus)if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (Paul) Isaiah 14:13-14 I say Paul was a liar today but know one will believe me. They never believed Jesus either. St John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. I hope this sounds simple and clear to you.
Thanks mickey. Awesome! People need to read this.Mickey quote:
" That is true you can trust His Word but half of the Bible was written under the influence of Satan."
Mickey quote:
"Paul added to the Word of God and will be found a liar at the end time."
Mickey quote:
" because they have had their heart removed and replaced."
Just so everyone is clear. I believe Mickey thinks he has physically had his heart removed and replaced by God. If I am wrong please correct me. This is important information. It tell us alot about you mickey and your possible ministry.
I also heard rumor that you think you are Elijah. Is this true or false?
Either way Mickey. I hope we share an eternity in heaven together and that the Truth of the Bible will be in both our hearts (whether physical or symbolically?).
I asked God for an awesome front porch in Heaven. I just want everyone to drop by for tea (cold or hot) and chat with me about the Bible for eternity.
But I fear that alot of people don't want what God wants. That is why we have so much confusion and religions on our planet. Be very careful that you align your will with God's. We can't afford to be wrong!
I have had my heart removed and replaced physically. Ezekiel 36:26 thirty days later received the Spirit or Holy Ghost. verse 25 should be right after the new heart and before receiving the Spirit because it cleans your body as verse 25 implies. Than will I sprinkle clean water upon you, (born again) and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. That is true I believe I am Elijah. Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: A preacher asked me what is your message? Satan is in all the churches and religious organizations. Paul was the advocate for Satan (not) sent from God. St John 3:16 should not be in the Bible. Mary was impragnated by the spirit not the Holy Ghost it wasn't to be until after Jesus went to His Father in heaven. Water baptism and the sacraments are a waste of time. We are only to go by what is in St John, Matthew, Mark, Old Testament, and Revelation, Mary was not a blessed creature as Luke describes. Few will be saved only the chosen few. John The Baptist was only a witness that Jesus received the Holy Ghost and than they got it wrong it never, "lighting on Him" but it went in His mouth and down His throat. Only those that are saved will understand the parables or what Jesus spoke. This should be more than enough.
Good try J. :DI don't think there's anything you could possibly say to make Mickey give proper authority to the Bible. He's on his own.
I meet tons of people like this on the internet. The world is getting weirder by the minute. Makes me think my version of just basic Biblical Christianity is old and boring.
But it's NOT! It rocks. All 66 books...The Bible keeps getting more exciting everyday. (Even the writings of Paul.) :p
64 J: The Catholic church even prays to Mary because of that verse 28 That is what the preachers will tell you the spirit, Jesus, and God are the same. I have know idea how they can believe that when it says the Holy Ghost or Spirit will come after Jesus goes to His Father St John 16: 7 but Jesus received it as He was being Baptized by John. It was then that the Holy Ghost taught Jesus what to say and do, that is why He went into the wilderness for instruction and to be tempted by Satan. St Matthew 3: 16 & 4:1-11 My ordeal lasted two years.
Why is ok to blasphemy Jesus and God but not against the Holy Ghost? It is a Spirit that you must receive to be saved.
Does that make common sense, the one that created the heavens and earth can't let a person know if they are saved, I was saved physically that is how I know. Every thing that happened to Jesus was physical.
65: Rod, Yes the preachers make it look good, there is no money in the truth. St Matthew 13:10 And the disciple came, and said unto him, Why speakest unto them in parables? He answeared and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the (mysteries) of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 ---That many prophets (Preachers) and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see,and have not seen them: and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
What about Paul? St John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: (Jesus) if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (Paul) 44 How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another, and seek not the honor that cometh from God only? St John 3:27 John answeared and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
I never got this from Harry Potter.
You got some wonderful Bible verses there Mickey. But you seem to be reading them all wrong. Life is physical and spiritual. Many false religions throughout history tried to make things only spiritual. It would be wrong to make things ONLY physical as well.Mickey quote:
"Why is ok to blasphemy Jesus and God but not against the Holy Ghost? It is a Spirit that you must receive to be saved."
I try not to blaspheme any of them. :D
Mickey quote:"That is what the preachers will tell you the spirit, Jesus, and God are the same."
I take it you don't easily accept the Trinity Mickey? (One God in 3 persons - all equal yet performing different functions).
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Mickey quote:
"It was then that the Holy Ghost taught Jesus what to say and do."
So you think that Jesus couldn't of done anything if the Holy Spirit didn't descend on him? Do you think Jesus was NOT part of God before that moment?
Is it possible that the two were just working together at that point?
John 1:33 "'He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.' I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God."
Luke 4:14
And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee...
However, what about:
Luke 1:15 For he (Jesus) will be great before the Lord...and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.
So it appears the Spirit was not deifying Jesus - but joining him in ministry.
Mickey quote:
"I never got this from Harry Potter."
I wouldn't blame Harry Potter for your teachings and understandings Mickey, but I wouldn't give God the credit either.
Your teachings seem to deny thousands of years of ministry and understanding of God's word amongst historical theologians. Be careful that you are not using God for your own personal desires and lusts. You sound like you are attempting to do the same thing Joseph Smith did: Make a Church of your own understanding apart from the historical path God has been carefully directing.
God does not fail, his church does not fail (not totally - It may lose a battle but never the WAR!), His word does not fail. Be careful your god is not too small. God's plan is going perfectly - with or without you Mickey.
Interesting source for videos Janice. Lots of info.It would be amazing to be able to talk people out of false beliefs. However, even Jesus throughout the Bible did not successfully change many people. But for those that do get touched by the Truth - EVERYONE IN HEAVEN IS REJOICING! Yaaaaayyyyyy.
Thanks J. :We fightin' the Good fight. :D
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Why Christianity is different from every other religion? You cannot work your way to heaven.
I enjoy that salvation video Kymberly. I've seen it a few times. It's fascinating.Were you saying you disagree with me on how to be saved? I agree with the Word of God. God chooses us and reaches out to us. Works only come after salvation.
It sounds like we agree.
The thief on the cross didn't really do any works. God reached out and touched his heart, then he responded. It was awesome!
I just bought a book By Ron Rhodes called: Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Mormons. Great stuff!I've read 10 books just like it. But this one is really well put together and deals with the practical issues you face when the Mormon missionaries come to your door.
I wonder how many Mormons attempt to read a book like this? It would change their life.
68 Rod: No I don't except the Trinity that way. It is God the creater and three helpers Spirit mentioned in Genesis, Jesus, Holy Ghost is a Spirit but seperate frome the other spirit. Jesus was a part of God and working together from Jesus birth for eturnity.
Luke I don't read there are too many discrepencies.
I'm a prophet I know what I'm writting about.
More about the subject later I spent to much time on a Church of Christ Minister.
68 Rod: The King James Bible of 1611 teaches that the Holy Ghost or Spirit is to be the teacher from God Himself, so Jesus had to receive the teacher to know what to say and do. But the Word was with God from the beginning of creation and Jesus was made flesh to present the Word to mankind. St John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. St John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,---. ;1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. To be saved mankind must receive the Holy Ghost or Spirit after your born again or your body is clean Ezekiel 36: 26-25-27 It was thirty days later that I received the Holy Ghost and it went in Jesus and my mouth it never, "Lighting on Him" as it reads in St Matthew 3:16.
St John 1:33 I believe it is God that determines who will receive the Holy Ghost. St John 14:16 And I (Jesus) will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, (Spirit) that he may abide with you for ever;
72 Kymberly; Does God Love you? Genesis 6:6 And it repented (grieved) the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth;---. Sodom and Gomorrow was destroyed because they couldn't find 10 righteous. The Love of God for mankind is a preachers money pit, there is no money in truth.
You are seriously messed up Mickey. I don't know where to begin. We could spend a year on all the things you have backwards and confused.I do realize that if you are spiritually blind - then nothing I say to you will get through. But i'm willing to try.
Mickey quote:
"More about the subject later I spent to much time on a Church of Christ Minister."
This could explain alot. Do you mean AS A C.O.C. Minister? Or WITH A C.O.C. Minister?
So we are supposed to believe you are a prophet of God who knows all things true and important - yet you can't even create sentences that make sense?!
If English is not your first language then I understand. OR possibly you are mentally handicapped. My guess is you are just dangerous and abusing scripture for your own desires.
But don't feel bad, I enjoy a challenging chat.
We can get into this later if you like.
No I'm not affilated with any church or religious organization. The reason that they don't make sense to you is, Jesus spoke in parables that most people don't understand. St Matthew 13:11 ---Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 16 but blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears for they hear. 99,99% of preachers understand the verses literally and that is why there are so many denominations and false churches. They learn most of the false doctrine from a divinity school. Jesus was a mental case as far as his frinds thought of Him so I'm in good company. St Mark 3:21 And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. To my knowledge it is the only verse in the KJB of 1611 that they capitalized He.
English was close to my last subject just above drivers training. I just barely made it thru high school. But those that take the scripture literally they are the ones abusing scripture and the churches are full of their corrupt congregations just like Satan said it would be. Isaiah 14:13 ---I will sit also upon the mount (all) of the congregation,(Churches and religious organizations)---. You will lose.
WOW! Rod's right You are seriously messed up! I feel badly for you - sad part is, you choose this nonsense over truth. :(
First, mormonism is in no way a Biblical faith. How can it be Biblical when it claims and teaches that the Bible is inaccurate? Christians believe in the Bible in its entirety. We believe that God is so powerful that He has sustained His letter to us through the ages without flaw. That is how powerful the God of Christianity is. Second, God is ONE entity of three parts. The Mormon claim that Father, Son & Holy Spirit are three separate gods is not a Biblical teaching. When Stephen saw The Father standing next to the Son, he was experiencing God's unique ability to be in more than one place, in more than one form, at the same time. This is the same for when Christ was baptized. Here the Father's voice came from Heaven while the Son was here on Earth & the Holy Spirit descended in the form of a dove. Nowhere in the Bible is it taught that God is anything other than ONE being made up of these three "parts". Even the Book of Mormon contains a story in which an evil attorney asked the prophet, "Is there more than one God?" The prophet's reply was "No". So a supposed prophet-one who mormons claim receives messages directly from God- claims there is only ONE God. The prophet said nothing about three separate gods. Mormon teaching that there are three gods is conjecture, not Bible based Truth.
If you study the verse you'll discover that the Greek word used for paradise means, "the very presence of God". Besides when Christ said that He had not ascended to His Father He didn't say ANYTHING about the whereabouts of the thief who hung with him. If Christ decided not to go to the Father that means HE didn't go to the Father. It does not negate His divine ability to send the thief ahead of Him. Nor does it negate the Father's power to reach down & draw the thief to Himself.
80 Taz: That is what I teach the Bible is inaccurate. I'm not a Christian but a child of God. Does this verse say how powerful God is? St John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: (Jesus) if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (Paul) The Bible says that a couple that gets married are one. I have always counted two but a married couple they should have the same goals. That is the same as the one God, with three helpers spirit in Genesis, Jesus the Son of God, and the Holy Ghost or Spirit that everyone that is saved must receive just as Jesus received it in St Matthew 3:16 It was the dove and it went in His mouth and down His throat, as it did mine. 20: 23 Ye shall drink of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with. St John 16: 7 ---for if I go (not) away, the Comforter (Holy Ghost) will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
That is true there is only one God that created three helpers with the same goals.
St John 20:17 ---I (Jesus) ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. HE did go to the Father.
Luke that can get a person in all kinds of trouble is the only Gospel that has anything about the thief going to paradise. If I was a betting person the thief never went anywhere. Most all the time it is refered to be the kingdom of god. Only one other place that paradise is used is in Revalation 2:7 The tree of life is those that are saved Ezekiel 36:26-25-27 7 ---To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst (a part of the kingdom of God) of the paradise of God.
Ezekiel 36:26 (happened to me physically) A new heart also will I give you, (After your body is clean) and a new Spirit (Holy Ghost) will I put (within) you: born again 12/1/1968 Holy Ghost 12/30/1968
And i will take away the stony heart (born with) out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. (From God)
I'm curious Mickey who your favourite theologians are? Is there anyone throughout history that you agree with or learn from? Anyone now even? for instance my favourites are: Ravi Zacharias, Chuck Swindoll, C.H. Spurgeon, Jonathon Edwards, R.C. Sproul, William Tyndale.
If God has not been protecting his church over the last 2000 years with great teachers - then he isn't a very useful God. So who are YOUR teachers?
83 Rod: The Holy Ghost or Spirit not related to the other spirit. I know none in history that I agree with except the King James Bible of 1611 St John, Matthew, Mark, Old Testament and Revalation. None.St John 16:7 St John 14: 16, 17, 20, 26,
Those mentioned above's father is Satan they never seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; ---. St Matthew 6:33 before they became theologians or teachers.
God can't protect His church. St John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not, (Jesus) if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (Paul) verse 44.
So why the King James Bible Mickey? You do realize it was a work in progress do you not? Do you not agree with William Tyndale and those who translated it? I guarantee that you don't. So which version of the King James Version do you particularly like? You are aware that it has been endlessly revised?
Language changes. For instance: the word Unicorn has appeared numerous times throughout the K.J.V.. That word no longer has the same meaning it once did. So we change it.
I bet the version you have in your hand is quite different from the 1611 King James Version.
Your version of Heaven is going to be a very lonely place Mickey. Apparently just you and a few other will be in it.
Mickey quote:
"God can't protect His church."
Wow. Have you even read the Bible?
This is the weirdest conversation I've read in my entire life.
Yes, yes it is! Now you are a part of it J.S.. :DOther than weird - do you have an opinion?
Rod wrote: "Yes, yes it is! Now you are a part of it J.S.. :DOther than weird - do you have an opinion?"
I try to avoid giving an opinion on religious matters, because whenever I do, someone undoubtedly is going to say that I'm under the influence of Satan and in dire need of Jesus. I do need Jesus, so that's not the issue, but it does get a bit old when people say that my theology is demonically influenced. (For the record, I am not a Mormon. Or the reincarnation of an Old Testament prophet.)
I *will* say that it bothers me when I see such division among Christians. Everyone is going to interpret Scripture differently, because each of us sees the world differently, but are we not all members of the body of Christ? Should we not love one another? I look at Christian denominations like brands of breakfast cereal. Sure, they're all going to taste different, and maybe some aren't as delicious or healthy as others, but when you get down to it, they're all still cereal.
A Baptist is always going to tell a Methodist he is wrong, a Catholic is always going to tell an Anglican he is wrong, a Calvinist is always going to tell a Nazarene he is wrong, and a Pentecostal is always going to tell a Lutheran he is wrong. And if all are wrong, who can be right?
When in doubt, stick with Jesus, folks. I think He'd want it that way. :)
"Stick with Jesus" What do you mean by that? Jesus spoke in parables that His Father thru the Holy Ghost told Him what to say and do. Jesus said you must be born again to (see) the power of God, "physically." That is the nature of God we see that in His creation it is either matter or energy that we can feel, see, or touch. Why would salvation be any different? St John 3:33:5 You must receive the Spirit to enter into the kingdom of God. The Spirit is refered to being the Holy Ghost, Comforter, Spirit of Truth, and being a (He). What is ment by born again and the Spirit Jesus is no help, but in Ezekiel 36:26-25-27 it is explained as well as I could write it down. The new heart is given after the heart your born with has been removed as it reads in the 26th verse: And I will take away the stony heart (sinful heart) out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. (from God)
The reason this must be done is because of the original sin of Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 3
J.S. wrote: "Rod wrote: "Yes, yes it is! Now you are a part of it J.S.. :DOther than weird - do you have an opinion?"
I try to avoid giving an opinion on religious matters, because whenever I do, someone un..."
Totally agree, J.S., stick with Jesus!! :)
Yep, as long as someone sticks with the Jesus of the Bible they should be okay.But the problem is: many people really don't bother to learn or look at what the entire Bible has to say about Jesus - modern Church-goers seem to just learn a few verses here and there and assume Jesus is what THEY think he should be.
The weirdest thing I always hear is: "My God would never do that/ or my Jesus would never do that." Which tells me that most people have not read the Bible.
J.S. quote:"A Baptist is always going to tell a Methodist he is wrong, a Catholic is always going to tell an Anglican he is wrong, a Calvinist is always going to tell a Nazarene he is wrong, and a Pentecostal is always going to tell a Lutheran he is wrong. And if all are wrong, who can be right?"
All of these denominations are enough to make it to heaven. The problem is when they start abusing the Bible - it damages truth and ministry.
When someone accepts Jesus how much theology and information do they have? Probably just a very small bit. Same goes for the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.
But soon they will have to make a choice between the Bible as a whole and their denominational traditions and creeds. How many of these denominations have gone liberal? All of them in some areas. So enjoy them while you can (but not the J.W.'s and Mormons.)
92 Rod: "All of these denominations are enough to make it to heaven" (but not the J.W.'s and Mormons.) What does the Bible say about that. Isaiah 14:13 (Lucifer had it in his heart that God could see) I will sit also upon the mount (all) of the congregation, (Churches and religious organizations)How about none of the above. I know it is hard to believe but none of them have the doctrine of what it takes to truly be saved. Jesus spoke in parables so He is know help, but Ezekiel got it right but not in the right occurrence that it happens. 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, (Born again) 25 then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, (born again "new heart") and ye shal be clean: ----. 26 (30 days later I received the Holy Ghost) and a new Spirit will I put within you----27That is why I don't attend any of the churches.
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Ooh Mickey - You crazy as ever! What does your wife and family think of your shenanigans? You didn't breed did you? :D
The reason you don't attend any churches is because they WON'T LET YOU IN!
But it's not too late Mickey: start reading a real Bible from Page 1 to the end...I'll help you -
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens...
Don't come back until you are finished. You'll thank me later.
94 JD: What I ment is Jesus spoke in parables or allegorically. What that means is what He said, has a different meaning. a story in which people, things, and happeninings have another meaning. Jesus said except a man be born again, he cannot (see) the kingdom of God. St John 3;3 Like I said this is only half of the salvation plan the other half is receiving the Spirit or Holy Ghost found in the 5th verse. Most churches go by St John 3:16 that is simple enough and not complicated and not in parable form, that is what they believe. Genesis 6:6
95 Kimberly : That is right but the KJB of 1611 has chapters and verses in it that know one reads. Just the fact that Jesus the son, was born of Mary does that satisfy for instance St John 3:3-5 Except your born again and 5 receive the Spirit (Holy Ghost) they cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Ezekiel 36:26-25-27 is the explanation of 3:3-5
96 Rod; What about the Word that Jesus spoke for this dispensation, and you want me to read about the turtle doves and bullock for the sin offering, and two rams, and a basket of unleavened bread: in Leviticus, No thinks. My Dad was a preacher that became an alcoholic for the reason he was never saved in the first place before he became a preacher just like Billy Graham, Jake the fake, Jimmy Swaggart, Billy Sunday, Oldsteem.
My biblical name is Elijah the last prophet (if you want an Old Testament verse it is Malachi 4:5) if it wasn't for the missleading disciples in St Matthew 17:13 you might have heard of me. 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. They said John was Elijah and that is what the preachers like. John said he wasn't Elijah. St John 1:21 Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. Who wants to read about the truth? Revalation 2:17
I'll go with what was said earlier: "Come out of him!" :D
I'd say it's seeing Jesus' parables as no help if you can't read into the symbolism. If you can, you'd find a whole 'nother world. It's funny, people say they prefer surface material and not allegorical/symbolic stuff so they don't have to think, yet we read stories that are packed with symbolic stuff. Wonder who really is being of no help?
99 Jason; "People say they prefer surface material" What people want is not what they get, Jesus spoke most of the time allegorically and only those that become saved can understand what is said. ---"it is given unto you (saved) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them (Unsaved) it is not given. St Matthew 13:11 16 But blessed are your (Mickey's) eyes, for they see: and your (Mickey's) ears, for they hear. Jesus; because He spoke in parables, demonstrated in parables, spoke allegorically, used short stories in parables, used symbolic stuff Etc. and it was all approved of, His Father in heaven or God in heaven.
" O FATHER, LORD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH, BECAUSE THOU HAST HID THESE THINGS FROM THE WISE AND PRUDENT, AND HAST REVEALED THEM UNTO BABES. EVEN SO FATHER FOR SO IT SEEMED GOOD IN THY SIGHT. (AT THIS TIME JESUS RECOGNIZED THAT WHAT HE SAID WOULD NOT BE UNDERSTOOD BY THE UNSAVED or majority of people.
IF THE UNSAVED CAN'T UNDERSTAND JESUS/GOD THAN WHAT HE SAID; HOW CAN IT BE OF ANY HELP TO THE GENERAL POPULATION WHO DRANK, SMOKE, SCREW, SWEAR, SPORTS, CHILDREN, FOCUS ON THE FAMILY, FALSE DOCTRINE IN CHURCH, AND OUT OF CHURCH. Do you want me to say this someother way?
I tried to be of help, that is why I have spent $30,000 four books, over the last 30 years for people like Rod who has one thing on his mind. I'll bet he never listen to his mother either.
Mickey wrote: "99 Jason; "People say they prefer surface material" What people want is not what they get, Jesus spoke most of the time allegorically and only those that become saved can understand what is said. -..."No matter what one does to help, if they have a sour attitude of someone, and it shows, the help is useless and people see a hypocrite, not a real Christ-follower. It's really sad to see someone who has obvious head-knowledge about the Bible, yet isn't so obvious about heart-knowledge. If you do, don't feel offended, simply let us know. And I'm with J.S. on this. I'm living in Alva, Oklahoma. Extremely religious town full of religious conflict. And seeing this argument reminds me of Alva and shattered I wish of it; that there'd be civility, not a bunch of "I'm right, you''re wrong!" It's truly no wonder so many refuse to be a Christian. They don't really see a Christ-like Love in even the smaller matters (let alone the major ones), they see huge quarrels over petty issues that are the seeds of divisions and dissension. As well as a distinctive tactic. You were on the topic of Mormonism and got to something else entirely. How about getting back to it?
Dude you spent $30,000 on four books? Ouch! How's that working out for you?
I agree that it would be nice to keep this thread focused on Mormonism and how it does and doesn't align with Christianity.
102 Rod. In 2012 I made $2.88 with $1.22 taken out for the Irs. So $30,000 - $4 = $29,996 deficit.103 Rod: "Mormonism" I have proven Paul of The Acts was a false prophet St John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: (Jesus) if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive (Paul) Paul was a false prophet than who was Joseph Smith? He copied after Paul the light in the forest (I believe at the ripe old age of 14) and the light that filled the room.
When he got back from the forest with his tale, I believe even Joseph was surprised that his parents believed him, and than it all snowballed from there in which it is still snowballing. The closest thing to sex is dancing, and over the holidays the Baptist are doing that also in Florida.
Than Moron-I the angel gave Joseph the gold tablets that know one else ever saw, and God took them back to start His library.
Obama has always said he is a Christian, knocking down a few beers under the trees, toasting with kool-aid the dignitaries, and in the news paper of December 28,2012 it says he asked a (Buddhist monk for prayer in Thailand, to avoid the fiscal cliff. by Ann Rogers) To my knoweldge they don't even believe there is a God. The dallie Lama I believe he prays to his right foot, you can guess were the other foot is. No, not in his mouth.
Unlike many Christians: I do not respect other religions. I do not claim to be nice or respectful to anything that is a doctrine of demons.
1 Timothy 4:1
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons"
You brought up some great issues Chris that all Christians should be aware of.
Christopher quote:
"For example, which translation do you use?"
Use any translation that does its best to stay accurate with the earliest available manuscripts. And then compares those to all the other manuscripts. And almost all christian Bibles do this. That is why numerous scholars are required.
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Christopher verses
Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" (Luke 24:32).
Chris: "should we not trust that feeling? There are those in scripture who did."
The feeling proved nothing Chris. It was nice. A stirring of the heart. But this leads itself to easy false beliefs. Just like Mormons do - any religion can use this as guilt or proof of their doctrines. A very dangerous thing indeed.
The best part of Luke 24 is: "did not our hearts burn within us while he talked too us on the road, while he OPENED TO US THE SCRIPTURES?"
Yes, our hearts should burn when the scriptures are opened.