The Sword and Laser discussion

I am not refering to comic books, of which I am a lifelong fan. I recently found the Ex Heroes series by Peter Clines and loved them. I also know about Adam Christopher's books and they are along the same lines.

Am I missing any in this genre? Other than the obvious comic tie in's?

Wild Cards - edited and partially written by George RR Martin (you know that Games of Thrones dude).

It started in the 80's and was at first a shared world collaborative by various authors. Every author had their own set of characters and told their own stories but there would be overlaps with others. Basically like comic books. A few books into the series though they tightened things up and just started telling one long story per novel instead of various short stories.

As the premise, basically aliens cause some human beings back in the 1960's to develop superpowers. The series eventually moves to modern day (80's since thats when it was written) and society is dealing with the fallout as some are heroes, some are villains, and many are flawed. Its pretty adult oriented as well.

Ghosts of Manhattan comes to mind and of course the upcoming novel by Brandon Sanderson Steelheart.

But if you start digging, there will be others: Soon I Will Be Invincible or Masked or Nobody Gets the Girl.
I guess if you create a shelf with those, there'll be more recommendations.

Yay, a thread my book qualifies for!

The Silver Ninja

Just as a disclaimer, it is a first time superhero book, so you might want to read the reviews first if you're hesitant to pick it up.

I'm actually quite amazed as to how rare superhero books are. It seems that creators just default to making comics rather than books, since superpowers are such a visual medium.

I haven't read this book but you might be interested in Sidekicked.

I read the premise and it certainly sounded interesting, I just haven't had the opportunity to pick up a copy for myself.

There is also the Ex-heroes series, it depicts a world that contains super humans that gets over run by zombies.

Christopher wrote: "There is also the Ex-heroes series, it depicts a world that contains super humans that gets over run by zombies."

Actually, he mentions this in the very beginning of his thread. "I recently found the Ex Heroes series by Peter Clines and loved them"

its cool. all discussion is welcome

Kdawg91 wrote: "Am I missing any in this genre? Other than the obvious comic tie in's?"

I tend to prefer original superhero books over novelized comics like Superman and Spider-man. I just started reading the third Clines book,
Ex-Communication and the opening chapter is quite good. Ex-Heroes was terrific, and while I thought the sequel Ex-Patriots was decent, it was just okay. It was more of "Biff!" to the first one's "KAPOW!"

Anyway, here are the other superhero books I've read:

Excellent:

Masked is an anthology edited by Lou Anders. The signal-to-noise ratio is very high on this one.

Devil's Cape This is terrific stuff, and the only book on this list where the sense of place is as important as any of the other characters. An alternative New Orleans but just as evocative. A really excellent book.

Really Good:

Sidekicks is a common title, but this is an uncommon book.

As I was reading I was struck by how much the main character, Bright Boy, is clearly an analogue of Robin, while his mentor, Phantom Justice, is Batman. Although Bright Boy is really a mash-up of Robin and Spider-man, and the story is not dissimilar from the Incredibles in some aspects... and at that point you have to realize that despite certain elements being similar to other superhero tales, this is its own beast.

Once all the game pieces fall into place, the story kicks into high gear and Bright Boy is backed into a corner in all parts of his life. There are twists and turns aplenty, but the overall impression from the book is one of fun.

My only minor nitpick is the ending. It feels a bit muddied to me, without the clarity of the rest of the book. It almost feels like it could use a second round of polish. But this is a slight thing to complain about. This was a delight to read and I ripped through it.

Prepare to Die! This book isn't brilliant but it *is* really fucking good. You can think of it like a Marvel Max with the adult themes and sex talk and Rated-M-for-Mature attitude. It's definitely lewd and crude, but Tobin doesn't do it to be shocking; rather, it's just the way some of these characters behave. I do wonder if some people might see some misogyny in parts of the book, but the reality is that both genders are treated equally: good sides and bad.

The fight scenes are brutally satisfying, and there is a definite moral ambiguity to much of the interaction between heroes and villains. Especially when some of them switch sides. One of the unintended consequences with the Comics Code Authority was that heroes weren't allowed to kill, but villains often were. This raises the question of moral absolutes versus situational ethics because, in the final measure, wouldn't the world be better off if Batman just killed Joker outright? In comics which examine the complexities of the world, we've seen that when moral absolutes and situational ethics collide, the outcome isn't always predictable. When the Kingpin is killed, it creates an anarchic vacuum that was far worse than what Spider-man and Daredevil faced when foiling Kingpin's plans.

Prepare to Die examines that same gray area of superheroing. Plus dollops of regret about the choices we all make as we get older. Those choice may have been right in the moment, but from another viewpoint sometimes they aren't the best path to follow. Problem is, you don't know until afterward.

All this, plus epic battles. What's not to like?

I really enjoyed the tone of the book, I liked the pacing, I liked the inventiveness of it and, ultimately, the preoccupation with sex didn't annoy me as much as it does in other books.

Good:

The Falling Machine is the steampunk Avengers. I know, steampunk, groan, sigh. I feel the same way. Fortunately this book is actually pretty good. I also like the fact that it's steampunk science fiction rather than steampunk fantasy. That by itself is refreshing. It's a bit fussy about the tech, but it's not that big a deal. My only serious complaint is that it's the first of a trilogy so there's more set-up than pay-off. I haven't read the sequels yet. Hearts of Smoke and Steam and Power Under Pressure.

After the Golden Age Its failings are rather minor, all things considered, as the main character is fully realized and the story itself is pretty interesting with a nicely superheroic conclusion.

Those Who Walk in Darkness The set-up for this story is that a supervillain blew up San Francisco, leading to the outlawing of all metanormal humans. So the supers who don't leave or get deported are hunted down and killed by cops specifically assigned for that job. Not an original premise, but this story is so kinetic and relentless that it doesn't matter. This is not great literature -- it's a modern superhero pulp book that a geek like me considers a beach read. If there's a moral to the story at all, it's that fanaticism is bad. Also, not revelatory, but the conflicted heroine at the heart of the book is equal parts crazy and badass, which keeps it interesting. I'm not sure this is meant to be examined deeply; it's more like a Mike Hammer book with super-mutants.

What Fire Cannot Burn At first, this sequel to Those Who Walk in Darkness wasn't doing it for me. The writing felt lazier, almost stream-of-consciousness, with half-finished thoughts. But it was an easy enough read so I stuck with it for a while longer. I was just about to put it down when Ridley upped the ante in the extreme and really turned up the heat. I literally said out loud, "No you did NOT." But he had. Read it to find out what that was. He also doubles your fun by adding yet another bad-ass hot chick, who just so happens to have a bit of a conflict going with the existing bad-ass hot chick from the first book. As if the mutants and bureaucracy weren't enough, now they have to compete against each other.

I don't care if people think these are slight books, nothing more than souped-up crime fiction: I like 'em.

The Awakening The Gathering The Reckoning This is a trilogy of YA books. The first one is really good, the second one maintains the quality and then the third one drops the ball. That said, they are worth the read. There are more books set in this universe if you like these, but I haven't read them.
Super Human The Ascension: A Super Human Clash Stronger: A Super Human Clash

Flyboy Action Figure Comes with Gas Mask I honestly don't recall much about this book, but it has 3 stars on my list. I recall it being sort of artsy and literate.

Nobody Gets the Girl has a lot of first-novel issues, but it also has some nifty ideas, some of which I later saw show up in City of Heroes. I did put his next book on my to-read list but haven't gotten to it yet.

Path Of The Just Path of the Bold: Superhero Anthology These are anthologies based on the Silver Age Sentinels P&P RPG. Just was better than Bold as I recall, but they're both pretty solid. Out of print. If you can find them, they're pretty decent overall.

Superpowers This is a good book that goes a little deeper into what would really happen if you got the usual superpowers. It's not all rosy.

Bad:

Captain Midnight Chronicles The anti-good anthology to Masked, this is relentlessly terrible. Captain Midnight was a hugely popular character with millions of fans back during the days of radio and movie serials, and I have to think that stuff was lightyears better than any of this junk. It's a book about a pilot, and they spelled "hangar" incorrectly every single time.

Soon I Will Be Invincible I do not get the love for this book. It's not that interesting and the author falls into a familiar trap: it's virtually impossible to write about someone who is smarter than you are.

The Secret World Chronicle Mercedes Lackey was a fellow City of Heroes player, so I had high hopes for this one co-written with other players in her supergroup. (That's CoH-speak for "guild.") Sadly, it was beyond awful. The names felt like someone's second choice in the character creator and it reads like lame fan fiction. One character even lives with her psychic cat. Painful. I guess it sold okay, since there's a second one.

Bitter Seeds is astonishingly well-written and has a great idea at its heart: during WWII the Nazis create superhumans and in response the British create sorcerers who truck with demons. But it's so damn DULL. There are only two really cool scenes and the rest of the book drags on. Lots of people like it, though, so the good news for them is that there are others in the series.

Dull Boy To call this a "dull book" is too easy a target. Plus it's not completely true -- it's more clumsy than anything else. This is very much a Young Adult novel in that the characters don't quite feel real and the dialogue and behavior of the teenagers doesn't come across as realistic. It's almost as if Cross doesn't remember what it was like to be a teenager herself, since the scenes among the teens feel so painfully forced in a "beginner writer" sort of way.

There are many references to the X-Men, including one scene where the titular character says to the Wolverine-esque girl-with-an-attitude that they should do a "fastball special." If the book were more interesting, I'd be tempted to map the characters on their X-Men analogues because they're all there, including Emma Frost. There's so much angst that it weighs down the story tremendously. By the time they get to the big action scene, it's too little too late, and not really all that impressive anyway.

~~

Wild Cards I And, of course, the Wild Cards series. These range from excellent to terrible, but they've just started republishing them with new stories added. I'm currently reading Fort Freak. By which I mean I started it but now I can't find it. It'll turn up.

Black and White is one I'm currently reading on iPad. It's a completely different world from ours where superheroes exist and superpowers seem to have a well-defined magic system. I'm only 1/8th of the way in, though.

oops sorry about that. well in that case my favorite example of super hero novels is The Secret World Chronicle and it's sequels. other books in the genre include Confessions of a D-List Supervillain Soon I Will Be Invincible and Only Superhuman. sadly while there are a few good books in this genre, most books and writers are still working out how to do it well.

A couple I haven't seen people mention...

Steelheart is coming out later this year, and everyone loves Brandon Sanderson, right? RIGHT?!

I remember seeing the Kickstarter for another one, Arena Mode, a little while back, and hey look, it apparently just came out! The prologue was certainly interesting (normal guy getting thrown in with superheroes in a fight-to-the-death... for the entertainment of the unwashed masses!). The author also wrote Vs. Reality, which I personally wasn't a big fan of, but lots of other people seemed to enjoy.

never read Sanderson, so not sure if I love him or not :P

I second After the Golden Age. I found it to be quite entertaining.

Kdawg91 wrote: "never read Sanderson, so not sure if I love him or not :P"

Wha?!?

Okay, it's far more fantasy than superhero, but try out Mistborn: The Final Empire. It is very good.

That's actually a terrible understatement. Sanderson puts together unique magic systems like nobody's business, then ties them into some of the most imaginative, well-ordered worlds I've ever read. I mean, when Patrick Rothfuss adds someone to the list of people he wishes to kill and eat so-as to absorb their powers, you know they have to be pretty good at what they do.

I actually have a few of his books on my kindle and I know he's good, just haven't hit that part of my To be read pile you know? :)

I'll add Hard Magic and its sequel as 1940s alt universe superheroes, with the requisite supervillain and public distrust.

Also, I'm convinced Graceling (less so the others in the series) is a superhero story set in a medieval fantasy world.

If you count online fiction, Seanan McGuire did a fun set of stories in a world of corporatized superhero groups, Velveteen Vs., search her blog for the entire (completed) series.

Sky wrote: "A couple I haven't seen people mention...

Steelheart is coming out later this year, and everyone loves Brandon Sanderson, right? RIGHT?!."

Sanderson did mention during his online class recently that superheroes have the most specific magic systems. So he's been thinking about this for a while. Seems like a natural progression for his type of story.

Other superhero books on my to-read pile:

Ghosts of Manhattan

Gods of Manhattan

Empire State

Seven Wonders

A Once Crowded Sky

The Damned Busters

Trike wrote: "Kdawg91 wrote: "Am I missing any in this genre? Other than the obvious comic tie in's?"

I tend to prefer original superhero books over novelized comics like Superman and Spider-man. I just started..."

Now that's how you answer a post.

From the Notebooks of Dr. Brain is a fascinating story of a Justice League-esque superhero team undergoing group therapy.

Also, while not a superhero book per se, Michael Chabon's The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay is a great fictionalized take on the era when the Golden Age of superhero comics were produced, and the kind of men who made them.

Some good selections in here folks, I'll definitely have to check some of these out.

Nobody has mentioned

It is by Mur Lafferty. She has a podcast called "I Should be Writing"

you guys are great! I mean I started my urban fantasy thread out of boredom and as a result got 3 series to try :)

Kdawg91 wrote: "you guys are great! I mean I started my urban fantasy thread out of boredom and as a result got 3 series to try :)"

I am so glad you did, I too am in the midst of writing a superhero book and it is great to know that there is somewhere for it.

If it's well written and interesting, I will read it. If you put me in it, I'll buy it hahaha

Kdawg91 wrote: "If it's well written and interesting, I will read it. If you put me in it, I'll buy it hahaha"

lol i'll keep that in mind. still in the editing phase.

Aj wrote: "Kdawg91 wrote: "If it's well written and interesting, I will read it. If you put me in it, I'll buy it hahaha"

lol i'll keep that in mind. still in the editing phase and I havnt sent it out to anywhere yet"

interesting heroes and interesting story is plenty reward, you do that and it will be bought regardless :)

Andy Briggs Hero.com and Villain.Net series, great set of YA books that are parallel sides of the same story 8 in total four each, only bad thing about them are (view spoiler)[the last books in each set being cliff hanger endings with now news on continuing them. (hide spoiler)].
Also H.I.V.E series by Mark Walden, not super, nor hero, and once again YA but well worth a read. H.I.V.E being the Higher Institute of Villainous Education or as put by some a "Hogwarts" for villains.

I really don't care for Young Adult books, but I have a niece and nephew that I will point to these, thanks Kalvin!

Sky wrote: "A couple I haven't seen people mention...

Steelheart is coming out later this year, and everyone loves Brandon Sanderson, right? RIGHT?!"

Its doesn't quite qualify, for as I understand it there are no Superheros, just Super Villains being taken down by normal people.

This is interesting, as I am about to start a superhero novel -- more of a pulp-style thing than DC/Marvel, but I'm making notes on everyone's suggestions.

I just finished Kingdom of Heroes by Jay Phillips and it was pretty awesome. There were some spelling errors but nothing that totally ruined the book. It's a noir superhero novel that reminded me a little of Watchmen.

I also recently checked out Sensation which was decent. It was YA, could have been written and edited better, but still fun to read.

There was a YA book out a couple of years ago called "Hero" about a boy who develops superpowers and discovers his dad was a superhero working for the government.

If you are reading Bitter Seeds for superheros, you are going to be disappointed. It is more of a book for the Lovecraftian lovers (Edolians=Yog Sothoth anyone?) out there IMHO.

It leverages cosmic horror into slow decay.

Nathan wrote: "If you are reading Bitter Seeds for superheros, you are going to be disappointed. It is more of a book for the Lovecraftian lovers (Edolians=Yog Sothoth anyone?) out there IMHO.

It leverages cosmic horror into slow decay. "

"Slow" is right. :p

Nathan wrote: "If you are reading Bitter Seeds for superheros, you are going to be disappointed. It is more of a book for the Lovecraftian lovers (Edolians=Yog Sothoth anyone?) out there IMHO.

It leverages cosmi..."

I think it's absolutely brilliant. One the most atmospheric and best written books I've read.
Also, Grettel is one of the most terrifying villains (?)and best charrecters overall I've encountered.

Somehow Amazon botched the delivery of my last shipment that contained the 2 sequels and I haven't gotten around to re-ordering them. :/

Trike wrote: "Slow" is right. :p ..."

Perhaps slow in terms of action, but it was the characters and the world that made it all worthwhile for me.

KevinB wrote: " I think it's absolutely brilliant. One the most atmospheric and best written books I've read.

Also, Grettel is one of the most terrifying villains . . ."

Again I think the atmospheric stuff is more Lovecraftian influence done in a better than usual way. Lovecraft was noted for the ambiance of his stories. If you have never read them there are quality, free readings of his works, The Call of Cthulhu and The Haunter of the Dark at the links above (thanks to the The HP Lovecraft Literary Podcast). They serve as a nice comparison point to Tregellis's works.

Grettel, back to the subject of this tread, would fall more in the super villain, category. It is often hard to make (seemingly) omniscient characters interesting but the author does a great job of that.