On the Southern Literary Trail discussion

Here's the discussion thread to begin our discussion of Go Down, Moses. Please hide spoilers.

Mike S.
"Lawyer Stevens

I just finished the first story, "Was" and felt it to be an enjoyable romp/tall tale/farce, but for the life of me can't figure out the title. Since these 7 stories are supposed to form a novel taken together, I'll have to see how it fits into the whole.

I've written a number of papers on this one, and despite the near inexhaustible treasury of Faulkner gems, it has always been my favorite. The style is relatively accessible for people who don't do this sort of thing professionally, but it directly confronts the demons of the South, America, and (perhaps most importantly) man himself.

Go Down, Moses is also the most direct Faulkner would ever be with respect to the "race question," and marks a signifigant turning point in his career. To put it shortly, he no longer wrote difficult books for the sake of writing difficult books.

It still produces a measure of "uneasiness" if you try to read it like a novel, it is not a novel. It is also not a collection of short stories. Though some of the stories stand alone, when collected together they form a narrative that constantly threatens to adhere but ultimately implodes on itself (intentionally as far as I can tell).

"Was" will probably seem quick, dashed off, and irrelevant to the progression of the symbolism, but time it takes. "Fire and the Hearth," if placed in another volume would steal the show in its own right. Lucas Beauchamp introduces the Black line of the McCaslin family in a story that's not worth missing. Misdirection again ensues when the focus of "Pantaloon" (to my professors this was the most fascinating story because of its odd placement) shifts (or seems to shift) from the McAslin clan.

It is not until the fourth, fifth, and sixth sections that Faulkner springs his trap. "The Old People" seems like a straightforward "coming of age story" if taken alone, but a behemoth lurks just behind the curtain. "The Bear" is treading ground already familiar to readers of the first story, but the woods have wandered out of "The Faerie Queene" and into a Miltonic nightmare. November in the Mississippi hills has never been such a literally mythological place. Any attempt at criticism that does not descend into impressionism amazes me in its discipline. I have seen people literally panting, sweating, and ultimately throwing the book across the room in the chase scene that ultimately recalls no scene in literary history more than Ahab's run on the white whale. This is literary brilliance condensed into a space so small it is the fictional equivalent of a heroin overdose. The chase fades, and then Faulkner glides in orbit above the earth in the fabled fourth section, which can be omitted, but shouldn't be (especially if you are a native of the South).

I'll leave it there, but I would encourage EVERYONE to give this one time, if only for the twin pleasures of "Fire and the Hearth" and "The Bear". Faulkner was partially inventing a genre with this one, and its fun (and often painful) to see the way he introduces signifigance to the 'space between stories'. As I said, it is a mistake to view this as a novel, because the narrative breaks are too frequent and too signifigant. Read it instead as a fractured solution to the fractured History of American settlement, and it will be rewarding.

I would say spoiler alert...but its literally so good you could know what was coming and still be bowled over by it.

I am almost finished with "Fire and the Hearth" and it is brilliant. Lucas Beauchamp gets my vote for smartest Faulkner creation. What a man!

Also meant to say, thank you Russell. Your comments are very helpful in knowing how to approach this book. I can tell you will be invaluable to this discussion.

"Pantaloon in Black" is an odd story after the significance of "Fire and the Hearth" although Lucas Beauchamp's fire is mentioned early on. Can't see where this story fits in.

Russell wrote: "I've written a number of papers on this one, and despite the near inexhaustible treasury of Faulkner gems, it has always been my favorite. The style is relatively accessible for people who don't do..."

Russell, I join with Diane in thanking you for your thoughtful comments in this thread. When Go Down, Moseswas chosen as one of our group reads, I was stunned to see that I had rated it at three stars, based on a reading originally done in high school. Having just begun my second read in more than forty years, I will be interested to see how my view of the novel has changed. Glad to have you on board for this one.

Mike S.
Lawyer Stevens

Diane wrote: "I am almost finished with "Fire and the Hearth" and it is brilliant. Lucas Beauchamp gets my vote for smartest Faulkner creation. What a man!"

Diane, you'll also find Lucas in Intruder in the Dust.

Mike S.

I was happy to find a reappearance of Boon Hogganbeck in reading "The Old People". I think this one is setting the scene for "The Bear". I'll start that one tomorrow.

Well I've slowly picked my way through the end of "The Fire and the Hearth" and I'm liking it so far but I am kicking myself for passing on the used copy that some kind soul had gone to the trouble of diagraming a family tree on the inset. That would have bent my mind a little less.

Just received the book and looking forward to beginning the book. I know I read "The Bear" while in college but memory doesn't bring back much detail. All the comments are great and I'm going to read them again once I start.

I'm in the middle of "The Bear". Completely surprised by what just happened in the story, and am wondering where it will go from here. Faulkner is anything but predictable!

Josh. Give this site a try. Tons of information. http://www.mcsr.olemiss.edu/~egjbp/fa....

"William Faulkner on the Web" http://www.mcsr.olemiss.edu/~egjbp/fa...

John, this is a great website. It's worth it's weight in gold for the geneological charts alone. Josh isn't the only one who can't keep characters relationships straight.

Thanks for those links.....it's beginning to firm up now. Made it to The Bear and will start it tomorrow.

I just finished "The Bear". It took me 3 days to read because of my work schedule, but I'm not sure I could have read it in one sitting even if I'd had the time. Faulkner packed more into that 100 page story than other authors do in books 3 times as long. It will take some literary digestion before I know how to comment.

Josh wrote: "Well I've slowly picked my way through the end of "The Fire and the Hearth" and I'm liking it so far but I am kicking myself for passing on the used copy that some kind soul had gone to the trouble..."

Josh, I had to read the story a second time to get all that genealogy straight, though I believe most of it is made explicit at two different points in the story, each covering one or two pages. However, imo, the most salient junction in the Lucas family tree -- the union that mixed races -- seems also to be the most obscure. Is there anywhere in the text where Faulkner discloses unequivocally the nature of this union? If so I missed it. I expect Faulkner had his reasons for presenting it this way...we'll see how this plays out as we progress through the other stories...

Finally have begun but it will take me a bit to catch up since I have a few books going. always feels good to be back in Faulkner country.

"Delta Autumn" is a much shorter section, another hunting trip, only 60 years later. In my opinion, much more powerful than "The Bear".

The last chapter, "Go Down, Moses" brings a welcome return of Gavin Stevens. Everitt, I did not read each chapter twice, but would love to turn back to the first page and re-read the whole thing immediately, while the story and relationships are all still fresh in my mind. I have a feeling I would discover things I missed on the first go around. I don't have time to do that right now, but this definitely goes on my re-read shelf. I was sorry to turn the last page, it would be nice to remain in Faulknerland for a while.

Diane wrote: "The last chapter, "Go Down, Moses" brings a welcome return of Gavin Stevens. Everitt, I did not read each chapter twice, but would love to turn back to the first page and re-read the whole thing i..."

I'm just starting but maybe next year for a 2nd go round!

I am just beginning this book as I, too, have had a few reads plus an audiobook going at the same time. Faulkner deserves my undivided attention, and I may put the others aside to concentrate on this book, as he always manages to put me into a completely different state of mind as I read his narratives. Nobody does the South (and yes, I capitalize it, as I must as a true born and bred South Carolinian)quite like him. Before this year, I hadn't read him since high school (required reading everywhere, but most especially in the South) and it is with a hard-earned maturity that I am re-reading him now. This is my second Faulkner creation; I finished Light in August a couple of months ago. I am reading all the comments and would like to add it is truly a pleasure to read so many helpful pieces of advice on reading such a wonderfully crafted but complicated and intricate work. Looking forward to reading more.

Here's another interesting site concerning the McCaslin Genealogies:
http://people.virginia.edu/~sfr/FAULK...

It is especially interesting as it develops the genealogy as it is unveiled chapter by chapter.

Mike S.
"Lawyer Stevens"

Thanks Mike

Thanks, guys for all the links. They help this crazy lady whose trying to re-read the classics for the first time since college. :-)

That's a good site Mike. 'specially the pics. Ohhhh there is so much more.

Reading this again, after so long:

The anthropologist in me was itching to diagram a kin chart.

The more I read Faulkner, the more I picture his books as him rocking on the front porch, his whiskey and water on a table at his side, just telling stories, with all of his asides, never leaving anything out, and filling in any gaps he may have forgotten on the spot, like his grandfather did. To me, "Was" is a perfect example of this.

As to the title "Was" -- The "present time" of the book is when Ike McCaslin is an old man. The beginning of the book is:

"Isaac McCaslin, 'Uncle Ike', past seventy and nearer eighty than he ever corroborated any more, a widower now and uncle to half the county and father to no one

"this was not something participated in or even seen by himself, but by his elder cousin ...."

The book itself doesn't catch up to its present time until "Delta Autumn." To me, the title "Was" indicates that the story begins in the past, in what "was." The book is the story of Ike, but no story about anybody begins with that person, or is limited to that person.

I've not finished "The Bear" yet, but I have some questions that I'll hide.

(view spoiler)[ Did Sam Fathers die a natural death, or did he have Boon Hogganbeck kill him? Or did he have Ike kill him?

The choice Faulkner made, to have Boon be the one to kill Old Ben, surprised me. Why do you think he chose Boon? (hide spoiler)]

I have my own ideas on these, but I'd like to hear what you all out there would have to say.

One other thing: when I did my graduate research in the Mississippi Delta, some of the whites there cautioned me away from reading Faulkner if I was to understand them and their ways because, Faulkner "hated the South." I always remember the end to "Absalom, Absalom!" when I think of that, but also, how can anybody say, after reading this book in particular, that Faulkner didn't absolutely love the South. Sometimes love and hate are the two sides of the same coin.

Thanks, Randall, for the explanation of "Was". That makes perfect sense to me. As to Faulkner hating the South, his love for the region and it's people comes through in every word. Just because you can see the problems and difficulties of something doesn't mean you don't love it.

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/moses/

I went to this website and it has helped explain what has seemed to go over my head :). Gives a commentary and short explanation of each short story.

Just finished it......worth the effort, glad to have had the links included in this thread. For those midway, keep trudging it should all be mostly circular by the time you finish.

Some of the comments remind me of something an English professor told me years (gasp!)ago: "A good read is not always a fun read." I've kept that in mind so many times while trying to read difficult books. There is no doubt Faulkner is often not a fun read. However, having grown up poor in the South, I can certainly picture in my mind visuals of almost all the characters he writes about.

Faulkner is one of my favorite authors however, this month I only had time to read one of our books especially since Faulkner takes a bit more of my concentration than I had to give this month. I have enjoyed reading the comments from the members of OTSLT and I hope to find time to read Go Down, Moses in the future. Also, for those of you who have provided the helpful links, Thank you.

I am late to the party on Go Down, Moses. Real life intrudes at the least expected times. My wife, Martha Jo's last living aunt, one of twenty one paternal and maternal cousins passed away in Henderson, Texas two weeks ago. Her mother, Zola Mae Boston is the last member of the two family lines. She will be 95 in February, 2014. We were her ambassadors to Aunt Johnnie's funeral.

This sad occasion turned into a celebration of life of an extraordinary woman. If I were to delve into the genealogy of the Boston and Lynch families, I would be writing a significant history of Texas spreading from Nacogdoches to West Texas.

Interestingly, issues that emerge in Go Down, Moses are present in the Lynch family. That is the mixing of races. Johnnie's son, Patrick, married a lovely black woman. Their marriage produced a beautiful daughter.

I wondered what to expect when Patrick and his unlikely Texas family arrived in Henderson, Texas. Both branches of the family were stolid Church of Christ members.

What I found was complete acceptance in a small fundamental Church of Christ congregation. Aunt Johnnie had fully accepted Keisha as her granddaughter.

It is simplistic to think that William Faulkner's novel of race relations could have a present impact on that small Texas community. However the heartfelt hugs and tears from Aunt Johnnie's church brothers and sisters made me turn my thoughts in that direction.

Now I am fully involved in my second read of Go Down, Moses. If any of you may have noticed my initial reaction to the novel was a three star rating. That may come as a surprise to my fellow Trailers. It surprises me.

That rating dates back to an initial reading in highschool. This only proves that there are books we are too immature to appreciate at too young an age. I recall the impatience I experienced reading Faulkner's novel of race relations. I was put off by the blatant references to slavery, the frequent use of "nigger." I was completely flummoxed at the twisting and turning genealogy of the McCaslin and Carother clans.

It should come as no suprise to me or members of this group that my perceptions of this novel have changed over the years. For this is not simply a novel about race, but man and nature, the disappearance of wilderness, man's impact on the environment.

I also thank those who have supplied helpful links to our discussion. We have also been graced with especially detailed comments from members. A tip of my hat to Russell and Randall, although there have been many meaningful comments.

This morning finds me having concluded "Pantaloon in Black." I remain haunted by Faulkner's weaving of love and grief into a powerful, gut wrenching story. Rider and Mannie's hearth fire burned far too briefly. I found it served as an interesting transposition from the lengthy marriage of Lucas and Molly to the long tradition and heritage of Sam Fathers and the Chickasaw in Northern Mississippi.

My intention is to provide additional supplementary readings, including comments from William Faulkner and his thoughts on this work.

My sincere thanks to members who have made this one of the most memorable discussions of one of our Faulkner reads.

Mike S.
Lawyer Stevens

Everitt, your comment about pitying the land as if it were a slave to us gave me goosebumps. That is a powerful thought. Humankind hasn't been good to the land, but nature may have the last laugh.

I've been very slow reading this due to other commitments (primarily reading!) I'm definitely overbooked lately. But I'm getting there and letting it wash over me. I have a feeling a second read in the future will be called for. I'm also looking forward to using all the information others have so nicely provided. Thanks to you all.

Though I am reading this slowly, just have to say I loved "The Fire and the Hearth". I believe I will try to read/reread all of Faulkner over the next couple of years. It's such a pleasure nd adventure. Thanks to this group for inspiring me.

That was my favorite too. Lucas and Molly are great characters. You'll get more of Molly in the title story, and Mike assures me that Lucas will appear in another book.

Faulkner really is masterful in the way he brought all these characters/people together in this area and created a community over such a period of time of American history. What a brilliant man. Thanks for that info Diane. They are great characters. I wanted to pick up Molly and hold her.