Witches, Weres, and Vamps, Oh MY! discussion

Karen Marie Moning had quite a few pop culture references in Darkfever (ie: itunes). What are your thoughts on having these references in books? What other books have you read with these references?



I dislike pop culture references in books. I think it dates the books and oftentimes I don't even know what they are talking about if it's a reference to a famous person. As long as the references are light it won't affect my liking/disliking of the book. BUT, if it's heavy - I don't like the book.

Being Nikki by Meg Cabot, 2nd book in her Airhead series has several pop culture references, including reference to Law & Order on tv, etc.

While thinking about your question though, I came up stuff opposite this. I'm reading a set of romance novels from the 70s. The author wrote one book set in each state, and they republished the book later as a series with the state flower on each cover. As I'm working my way through the books, I'm running into stuff like the character using a typewriter, she stayed up until the national anthem played on tv at midnight before going off the air and it turned to snow. What's kinda funny about all this is the author wasn't writing a historical romance. It was written as a current book, just back in the 70s. So the books are kinda dated in a way when some of this comes up.

That's true - I guess any book that is written in the present will be dated some day - whether or not there are references to current events/people. I hadn't really thought about that.

I think the pop-culture reference that bugged me the most wasn't in Darkfever, but La Vida Vampire. The author kept referring to HGTV. Now, I know what HGTV is (and love it) but some don't. In 10 years will it still be popular and well-known or will people have no idea what is being referred to?

I have only read one of the House of Night books by P.C. & Kristin Cast and it was full of pop culture references. That was only one of MANY things that made me detest the book!

For a good example of pop culture references, just watch a rerun of any Gilmore Girls episodes. They are chock full of them, and I don't get all of them. lol (They did turn several of the first episodes into books, but written from Rory's point of view).

omg::i can't stand it::i think it was SK who had Zarek listen to Nazareths * Hair of the Dog*::why?::i'd rather he listened to classical::the guy was thousands of years old::listening to old rock music?:::i also think theres alot of product placement going on to::i think its perfectly possible to write an *in the moment book* with very few refernces to pop culture::adrian pheonix does this quite well::and to acertain degree JR Ward::

Oh wow. You guys are all so funny. Every single one of the books so far mentioned in this thread I disliked in large part because of the pop culture references. I liked Zarek's book but Adrienne, you are so right! Man, I thought I was the only one who noticed that, everyone's always talking about how great his character was but I found him to be a little overdone, though I still love, love the series.

And do not get me started about the Cast book, probably one of my least favorites ever. Darkfever and La Vida Vampire also did not fair too well.

Sorry everyone, I really do not enjoy complaining about books but now I'm wondering if maybe the type of author/writing style that is more comfortable with using pop culture references and risking a dated book (which is not necessarily a bad thing in my opinion) is simply a style I should stay away from.

Now that I've said that, I've read books with pop culture references that I have enjoyed immensely, so I think I guess it really depends on the book.

one of the best books with pop culture ref::and its full of them::is Martin Millars The Good Fairies of New York::it's set in the 80's::but it really doesn;t detract from the story;;even tho' its integral to it::hope that makes sense::

Yep, that makes sense and its on my tbr shelf.

I have been meaning to read The Good Fairies of New York as well - too bad it was checked out the last couple times I went to the library.

I haven't heard too much about it though -did you like it Adrienne?

i read it along time ago::i really enjoyed it::so now i've added to my TBR shelf::have a copy from the LIbrary (which i shall read once i've finished Ink Exchange)::lent mine out and never had it back::now i understand it's out of print::but yes its weird and strange::and very readable:) well i think so:)::

I think some pop culture is ok, but too much will make a book date fast or feel too much like a crutch, or exclude readers. I find in some books where they start naming brands of boots, makeup, designers, and high fashion stuff, rather then create familiararity it creates distance. A little however is can be part of the paint with which the author creates a charicters' world (think kim harrison) and it works, cause now when i see the protag in my mind I have a certian stereotype to paint it with without thinking about it. The same holds true with too much reference to spacific of weapons/war paraphanilia or tactics. Some reference to it and comfort with slinging the slang shows mastery in the protag and so it creates a lense I "see a charicter in my mind with. But, if they go into too much minutia it excludes me and unless the book has something else to keep my caring, I loose interest because, I imagine, it is not my world. I thiink the danger is you are putting your book in a niche like milatary fiction, chick lit, etc.

Now having said that, if the book is good, and that cultural references or techy stuff is just part of the paint in worldbuilding and it works. I think of the classic "The Stand" and other books by King. He used pop songs, disco, and many many pop culture things but it works in those books, and movies too. Maybe because it was my pop culture he was useing, but if anything those references work well, because the familiar pop references contrast with the wierd/otherworldly things that are going on. Think Blue Oyster Cults' "Dont Fear the Reaper" and all those bodies dead from the superflu. It works--Well.

This reminds of the movie "War Games". It was high-tech at the time it was made but I saw it ten years ago or so and was laughing at it being so dated and old. He used 8 inch floppy disks for his computer. He has to put the handset of his phone into a special cradle so his pc can use the modem. lol He hot-wired a payphone using a pull tab he found in the gravel from a pop can. When's the last time you saw a can with a tab you pulled off?

I love pop culture references - I think it gives an extra level to the time/setting of the book

Yea, computers and phones change so fast. Early Anita books really bugged me with all the pagers and phone booths. Same I think with Tanya Huffs blood books (I think). But how would you avoid it to some degree. I saw some gangster movie at least ten years old recently and the gangster had a car phone. it was about the size of two or three bricks and he was so rich and modern in the film to be using it.

Wierd.

Yeah Lily, I crack up when someone has one of those really ancient huge bag phones in their car. lol

If I'm reading an older book or watching an old movie or TV show I don't pay attention to "outdated" things. They weren't outdated then and things we have now weren't around then so how could they have had them. Would you watch a movie that was set in the 1940s and expect them to have home computers and pocket phones? Don't think so.

OH NO - definately wouldn't expect books to avoid any references to the current culture & technology.

For me, it's not those kind of references that would be considered Pop Culture references but things like itunes, Walmart, Starbucks, HGTV, current famous people (most of which I don't even know), and other brand names. I've seen more and more of these types of references in books.

But it doesn't really affect if I like the book or not - unless it is overwhelming. I like how Lily said it's "paint" the author uses. Kinda like glitter - a dab here or there is cute - cover yourself in it & it's awful. :)

Red Headed Step Child had a reference to the movie Lord of the Rings & the good looking fairy in it. I giggled at this & not just because it was true. I don't remember having lots of Pop Culture references in the book other then that.

I do love Pop Culture references. I love to be reminded of things that were. I guess I am getting old. Next thing you know I will be telling people Do you remeber when.....

I think it can be fun in small doses, but it's a risk with technology and culture changing so quickly. I really notice things like details about cell phones or references to movies and tv shows. Sometimes it feels like being in on a joke. But other times it makes the story feel dated.

What I really don't like is when the author throws in some fake ideas to make it seem more futuristic. I'm thinking about A Rush of Wings, which I totally loved but I never figured out when it was supposed to be. There were references to retro 90s hair and the computer guy was wired in to his computer, very futuristic, but other stuff felt very 2000. It just kept throwing me off and the references seemed overdone and unnecessary. Like she was trying to be cute and witty, but the uneven-ness was just distracting.

I don't mind if a character in a book is going to Walmart or Starbucks. And technology is a part of life. I just read a mystery where someone took pictures with his cell and sent them to his friends before he was killed. The pictures helped to find the killer.

It's true that references to a store or technology will eventually make a book feel dated but I think that you need to include things in a book that are part of everyday life from the time that the book is set in. And most of the time if I enjoyed a book I can go back years later to re-read it and still enjoy it. I don't expect an older book to be up to date and I take that into account.

What does bother me in a book is too many references to pop culture figures or brands of make-up or clothing that don't really add anything to the story.