The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion

I was wondering what books we are reading now, published since 1990 or so, that you think would be considered a classic in the future?

Harry Potter and His Dark Materials, for starters.

I've always told myself that years from now The Dark Tower series will be considered required reading for college english courses.

I got about four books into that series before dropping it. It was bizarre to say the least. I don't think the content's really right for required reading.

I'm sorry you didn't get through the series. It's my all-time favorite. Everytime i read it, I find something new to think about.

I'd add The City and The City by China Mieville.

Really? It just struck me as weird even by King's standards. Maybe I should look more closely.

Jo wrote: "I'd add The City and The City by China Mieville."

I have a love/hate thing with China's books... i ditched TC&TC early on as i was bored with it. I do plan to try re-reading it at some point.

Would Perdido Street Station be a future classic for Steampunk/New Weird?

Pickle wrote: "Jo wrote: "I'd add The City and The City by China Mieville."

I have a love/hate thing with China's books... i ditched TC&TC early on as i was bored with it. I do plan to try re-reading it at some ..."

Funnily enough I have a similar problem with his books. I loved TC&TC and on the back of it I bought several more. Embassy town I quite liked but after Kraken I stopped. Perdido St Station is in my pending pile.

Adrian wrote: "Really? It just struck me as weird even by King's standards. Maybe I should look more closely."

It is a bit weird compared to some of his other works, but I think that's the point. It's genre-bending. It's mashing together bits of our world, fantasy/sci-fi tropes and some of SK's nightmares and forcing them to fit. There are parts (to me) that seem like they were inspired by an LSD trip (and given SK's history, it's possible).

Now that I'm thinking of it, I could see why someone wouldn't like it. But, yeah, if you're willing, give it another chance, go for it! (Although, I usually suggest people start from Drawing of hte Three, instead of the Gunslinger.)

Ayesha wrote: "Adrian wrote: "Really? It just struck me as weird even by King's standards. Maybe I should look more closely."

It is a bit weird compared to some of his other works, but I think that's the point. ..."


Why does acid always get the blame for anything that's weird?

i've seen people blame acid for some of Philip K Dick's stories yet he dropped it once. Unless you are positive that he was influenced while on acid, Don't Blame The Drugs/Acid

Rant Over :)

Pickle wrote: "Ayesha wrote: "Adrian wrote: "Really? It just struck me as weird even by King's standards. Maybe I should look more closely."

It is a bit weird compared to some of his other works, but I think tha..."

Ok, ok. It was really an undigested bit of beef.

Adrian wrote: "Harry Potter and His Dark Materials, for starters."

The Harry Potter series is wildly popular and probably will remain so. It's well on its way to making it onto lists of classic books, but it won't be classic science fiction because it isn't in the science fiction genre. I haven't read His Dark Materials, but I believe it also is categorized as fantasy.

The only recent science fiction I have read is The Hunger Games and I suppose that will be considered a classic if Harry Potter is considered a classic for fantasy.

Much of the science fiction I've read was published before 1990. Orson Scott Card wrote a lot of the Ender series after that date, but Ender's Game was published in the 1980's. Ender's Game should be on anyone's list of to-read SF - the rest of the series is optional.

The first of Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos was published in 1989, the other three in the 90s. Simmons is truly a skilled author. I'd nominate these books as modern classics. I haven't read very much SF of note that was published in the last 20 years, unfortunately.

The Hunger Games trilogy is quite good, but for some inexplicable reason, I've just never thought of it as SF - perhaps because it was such a crossover phenom.

Both Hyperion and The Ender's Game are on my to read list, and seem to be sci-fi books that get quite a bit of hype. I've also seen a decent amount of hype surround John Scalzi lately and have wanted to check out his work.

Dan wrote: "Both Hyperion and The Ender's Game are on my to read list, and seem to be sci-fi books that get quite a bit of hype. I've also seen a decent amount of hype surround John Scalzi lately and have want..."

Scalzi's Old Man's War (2005) is on my to-read list because it is so highly rated here on Goodreads. Unfortunately, my library does not have a copy. (I can't afford to pay for my reading habit.)

Can you request books or do they transfer from other libraries?

Dan wrote: "Can you request books or do they transfer from other libraries?"

We can request ebooks or audiobooks, but the book of course must be available in these formats. Scalzi's isn't. I've successfully requested more than a dozen books for download in the last year or so. They have acquired every request, usually quickly. I've requested printed books in the past without success. I haven't tried lately. It's not like I don't have plenty to read, so I haven't pursued it. I could always just buy it. My spouse doesn't use the library. She singlehandedly enabled Jeff Bezos to buy The Washington Post.

I agree with Buck about "Ender's Game", although I was force fed many books as a teenager (prep school) & it ruined them for me. Took me decades to get over my prejudice of Steinbeck & I still won't read any more Dickens, so I almost hate to see favored books make the list.

Card's Treason should be on the list, but I've never seen it on any. Funny how some books catch the popular eye & others don't. I really like it & think it has a lot to recommend it, especially as an audio book.

Haldeman's The Forever War (1970's) should be on the list, but reading Heinlein's Starship Troopers (1959) first & Steakley's Armor (1984), possibly followed by Scalzi's Old Man's War (2005) makes a very interesting look at our society's changing attitudes over the last 50 odd years.

(If you haven't gathered from other posts, I like to look at the changing threads & perspectives in fiction. I wish more of my teachers had.)

LeGuin's The Lathe of Heaven is another that I'd consider a classic.

Hmmmm I like the idea of reading those books in order! I've only read Scalzi's so far. Putting that on my list, thanks! Haven't read the Lathe of Heaven yet either, actually I haven't read any LeGuin and I do keep feeling I'm missing something good. :)

I guess the Doomsday Book by Connie Willis will be considered a classic considering all the awards it won. Quite an interesting book and one of the better time travel books I have read although i'm not sure it will ever become one of my all time favourites.

I've read others of Willis'. They are easy reads and the story lines are good, but her style is so yackity-yak - she just goes on and on and on. Her verbose style put me off from reading the Doomsday Book.

I've just finished the silo series Wool Omnibus (Silo, #1), Shift and Dust by Hugh Howey. It's a great idea and although I liked Shift slightly less it read quite well as a trilogy even though originally published as a series of shorter ebooks. Not the perfect series but I'm sure if not already being made into a film, it will be shortly and then it will become a Classic.

Jo wrote: "I've just finished the silo series Wool Omnibus (Silo, #1), Shift and Dust by Hugh Howey. It's a great idea and although I liked Shift slightly less ..."

Wool's on my tbr pile after a couple of cracking recommendations, so im looking forward to it.

Oh I definitely believe that Hyperion will become a classic along with its sequel.

Clare wrote: "I don't think awards make a lot of difference in a book's longevity. When you think of established classics, do you even know what awards it might have won ..."

I have to agree with this. Awards don't necessarily draw people to a book or guarantee it gets read or becomes a classic. When was the last time you heard someone suggest The Healer's War by Elizabeth Ann Scarborough for a group read or that they had even read it? Yet it was a great book. (I read it.) It won the Nebula Award.

I hope a Old Man's War isn't destined for classic status, but it probably is. I really didn't like it much.

How about Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talents by Octavia Butler for classic status?

I think The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi fits the bill too.

And I have a feeling anything Neil Gaiman writes will be considered classic, but may not fit the science fiction requirements for this thread. The one I think most likely to become a classic is The Ocean at the End of the Lane.

David wrote: "I hope a Old Man's War isn't destined for classic status, but it probably is. I really didn't like it much."

Old Man's War already has garnered its share of acclaim. I think you're right it probably will be considered a classic of science fiction. I thought it was pretty good. It's the only Scalzi I've read. His Redshirts is also getting some hype.

And really, there's so much second rate science fiction out there, anything that stands out above the others is bound to earn a standing.

Buck wrote: "David wrote: "I hope a Old Man's War isn't destined for classic status, but it probably is. I really didn't like it much."

Old Man's War already has garnered its share of acclaim. I think you're ..."

Unfortunately, I thought Old Man's War was second rate. I tried reading the second book because I'd been hearing so many good things about Scalzi. The second book didn't hold up for me either. I liked it less than the first. I ended up reading it mainly because I needed something to read and I thought I was going to need to put my dog to sleep. I didn't have it in me to start something new. I mean, they weren't completely awful, but they just didn't measure up to most of what I'm used to reading.

I'll add Little Brother by Cory Doctorow to the list.It's considered YA, I think, & isn't too far out, but it's the '1984' of the present.

David wrote: "Clare wrote: "I don't think awards make a lot of difference in a book's longevity. When you think of established classics, do you even know what awards it might have won ..."

I have to agree with ..."

I don't think winning an award makes a book a classic but it does raise the books profile and make them talked about(at least at the time). If you look at all the SF groups there are lots of people trying to read all the Hugo awards, Nebula awards etc. so people often start with them.

I do like the recommendations in this thread as I gave up on sci-fi in the 1980's and early 1990's so I have huge gaps in my reading. This gives me lots of books to choose from.

Clare wrote: "Many of the best books just never get put in for awards, especially indies."

I totally agree, i've read many books that have been nominated for awards that I don't understand why and others that I can't understand why they weren't nominated.

Jo wrote: "Clare wrote: "Many of the best books just never get put in for awards, especially indies."

I totally agree, i've read many books that have been nominated for awards that I don't understand why and..."

Sometimes a book wins a lot of awards and I can't understand why. The most recent was Connie Willis's Black Out/ All Clear. I get that she has an incredibly huge fan base and that will definitely influence the Hugo Award, but it shouldn't influence the Nebula and it won that too. So, I checked what books it was up against:
M. K. Hobson The Native Star
N. K. Jemisin The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms
Mary Robinette Kowal Shades of Milk and Honey
Jack McDevitt Echo
Nnedi Okorafor Who Fears Death

I had never heard of the first three writers and the only one of these books I've read is Who Fears Death, which won the World Fantasy Award. I've never read McDevitt, so I can't speak for his writing, but he has been nominated for best novel Nebula a lot of times ad hasn't won yet. It seemed to me the Willis books didn't have all that much competition. I could be completely wrong on this, since I haven't read all of these.

So, after I wrote the above, I decided to count up how many novels Jack McDevitt has had nominated for the Nebula Award. He's been nominated 10 times since 1998. That's pretty amazing. I think I'm going to have to read some Jack McDevitt.

David wrote: "So, after I wrote the above, I decided to count up how many novels Jack McDevitt has had nominated for the Nebula Award. He's been nominated 10 times since 1998. That's pretty amazing. I think I'm ..."

I don't know if it was nominated but I read Polaris by Jack McDevitt, it's a kind of mystery sci-fi story. I didn't really enjoy it and it's given me no plans to read him again so I wouldn't recommend starting with this one.

Jo wrote: "David wrote: "So, after I wrote the above, I decided to count up how many novels Jack McDevitt has had nominated for the Nebula Award. He's been nominated 10 times since 1998. That's pretty amazing..."
Polaris was nominated for the Nebula in 2006. Maybe there's a reason why he hasn't won yet.

I just ran across an interesting list, "10 Science Fiction Authors Whose Books Just Kept Getting Stranger".

http://io9.com/10-science-fiction-aut...

Most weren't much of a surprise, but the note about Delany writing gross porn caught my eye. I hadn't realized he went in that direction. I looked around & glanced at the story mentioned, "Through The Valley of the Nest of Spiders". It was completely gross & shockingly pointless, at least from the little I could read.

Jo Walton just made my list of folks not to listen to as well. There's a link to her review in the article.

Jim wrote: "I just ran across an interesting list, "10 Science Fiction Authors Whose Books Just Kept Getting Stranger".

http://io9.com/10-science-fiction-aut...

Mos..."

That's a good article. Thomas M Disch's book The Word of God: Or, Holy Writ Rewritten seems a great basis for a book, i'm quite tempted!

Jim wrote: "I just ran across an interesting list, "10 Science Fiction Authors Whose Books Just Kept Getting Stranger".

http://io9.com/10-science-fiction-aut...

Mos..."
That was an interesting list. As far as the Delany books go, he was writing porn back when he wrote Dhalgren. He wrote The Tides Of Lust around the same time. I've read Hogg. It was intended as a literary version of hard core porn. It is tough to get through unless you're into reading about violent sex, which I'm not. But I still seem to need to read nearly everything he writes. I haven't read Through the Valley of the Nest of Spiders yet. One of his more interesting books in the past 15 years was Times Square Red, Times Square Blue. It collects two essays of the 42nd street area, one before it was cleaned up when it still had all the porn theaters and drug dealers and the other after they were all removed. It's an interesting study of a whole community that lost its place.

Thanks, David. I hadn't realized Delany did that. I've never read much of his stuff, although The Einstein Intersection is one of my top 3 favorite books of all times.

Philip José Farmer is another SF/fantasy author that's written some pretty rough, explicit stories. There's a scene with a girl & half an alligator's heart in Lord Tyger that's a real eye opener. It was a good story with some graphic sex, but I've heard his A Feast Unknown is basically Tarzan & Doc Savage in weird sex-violence that doesn't have much to recommend it.

That's my issue with the bit I read by Delany. I don't mind graphic sex or grossness in a novel, but I prefer them to be used sparingly to make a point, not to be the point. The latter seemed to be the case in 'Spiders'. Not my cup of tea.

Jim wrote: "Thanks, David. I hadn't realized Delany did that. I've never read much of his stuff, although The Einstein Intersection is one of my top 3 favorite books of all times.

[author:Phil..."

That's how I felt about Hogg. I suspect I'll agree with you on Spiders when I get to it. I think pretty much anything before Hogg is safe, though. I really liked his Neveryon series. It combines sword and sorcery with anthropology, and a study on master/slave and gender relationships. I love his early work too. After Hogg you have to be selective.

Here's a New Yorker article on A Canticle for Leibowitz & Walter M. Miller Jr.. Someone mentioned (in this group?) the sequel Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Woman which is addressed at the end of the article. It's not long, but I found it very informative.

Buck wrote: "Much of the science fiction I've read was published before 1990. Orson Scott Card wrote a lot of the Ender series after that date, but Ender's Game was published in the 1980's. Ender's Game shoul..."

Ender's Game was very good, but I thought Speaker for the Dead was so much better! I found it to be a very human and compassionate novel, and the alien piggies are a very intriguing and endearing race. Their mating and reproduction cycle would be one of the most original and unique ideas in sci-fi. For me, It was a fascinating read!

I liked all of the Ender series books. Card said that he was particularly proud of Speaker for the Dead and was gratified that it won a Hugo. I believe he delayed its publication so that it would be eligible. It is a good book, but still, my favorite in the series is Ender's Game.

If I had to nominate one book for classic status, it is Never Let Me Go byKazuo Ishiguro. It is dystopia and one of the best I have ever read. I love the Hyperion books and think they will be genre classics as well as the first three Ender books.

No one has mentioned Atwood yet. She's well worthy of this list. The Handmaid's Tale is --

I don't think I even need to go into it.

Valyssia wrote: "No one has mentioned Atwood yet. She's well worthy of this list. The Handmaid's Tale is --

I don't think I even need to go into it."

Atwood's MaddAddam trilogy has received a lot of notice. The Handmaid's Tale is superior, IMO.

Buck wrote: "Atwood's MaddAddam trilogy has received a lot of notice. The Handmaid's Tale is superior, IMO."

Agreed. MaddAddam is yet another 'technology bad' dystopian series. They're kind of a dime a dozen. Handmaid attacks patriarchy and organized religion. Raising a hand against those institutions is much rarer and braver.

OSAMA THE GUN by Norman Spinrad.

The publishing history of this novel is interesting. It was originally published in France, but Spinrad was unable to find an English language publisher. Around the time when Osama bin Laden was taken out by US forces, Spinrad self published it.

I read the novel at that time. It is a near future science fiction novel, where a Caliphate rules some Muslim countries. The narrator is a young secret agent for this Caliphate.

When I read the book back then, I though that a Caliphate in the 21st Century was implausible.

Doesn't seem so implausible now.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

Ronald wrote: "OSAMA THE GUN by Norman Spinrad.

The publishing history of this novel is interesting. It was originally published in France, but Spinrad was unable to find an English language publisher. Around ..."

I have huge gaps in my sci-fi and I have never heard of Norman Spinrad but reading about him it's clear I should have, so I think i'm going to try this one. It will be fun to see how it compares to what is happening now in the world.