Madam, want to talk about author Mary Stewart? discussion

Discussion for chapters 5 thru 8. Please comment on anything from these chapters, but remember to hide spoilers within a spoiler tag. Please note which chapter a spoiler is from so other readers will know if it is safe to "peek" or not. You do not have to wait until reading all of the chapters to comment, but please restrict your posts to content from chapters 1 thru 8. Enjoy!

Note: I am dividing the read into 5 sections, each 4 chapters long. I may adjust as we go, so check the chapter numbers for each section! :)

Just finished chapter 5. I was surprised to find out at the end of chapter 4 that the character from the past is "Naughty" Nick. I thought he might be the ghost lover. But now it is looking more like it could be one of the 3 cousins. As Misfit warned, the guessing game has begun!

End of chapter 6. I've changed my mind about the ghost lover; I've decided it is (view spoiler)[going to be Rob. (hide spoiler)]

Jeannette wrote: "End of chapter 6. I've changed my mind about the ghost lover; I've decided it is [spoilers removed]"

I agree, he seems a good sort :)

End of chapter 8 and I wonder what is up with (view spoiler)[ all the missing items, who could the thief be? Are the Underhills guilty or is it the Ashley cousins. I don't suspect Rob, I like him. (hide spoiler)]

End of chapter 7. So help me get this right, (view spoiler)[there was a "love shack" in the pavilion at the center of the maze back in 1835, or at least that is the rumor (hide spoiler)]. Sounds like a wild maze;)

Diane Lynn wrote: "End of chapter 7. So help me get this right, [spoilers removed]. Sounds like a wild maze;)"

There was, indeed!! Still want the map? ;)

Diane Lynn wrote: "End of chapter 8 and I wonder what is up with [spoilers removed]"

I get the feeling things are pointing (view spoiler)[toward Rob. He has the key. But, he is also waiting for a "distant" cousin to return to him, and when the time is right, then he'll move. Sounds like he's waiting for Bryony, to me. (hide spoiler)]

I just realized that not only is this a Gothic setting, but we have cousins who are twins! That does not bode well.

Jeannette wrote: "Diane Lynn wrote: "End of chapter 8 and I wonder what is up with [spoilers removed]"

I get the feeling things are pointing [spoilers removed]

I just realized that not only is this a Gothic settin..."

Twins definitely make this interesting.
I was thinking that Bryony (view spoiler)[ is the distant cousin Rob refers to, maybe Nick and his lover had a child and Rob is from that line (hide spoiler)].

Jeannette wrote: "Diane Lynn wrote: "End of chapter 7. So help me get this right, [spoilers removed]. Sounds like a wild maze;)"

There was, indeed!! Still want the map? ;)"

Ok, looks like the map (view spoiler)[ leads to a love shack, not treasure, shoot I was picturing the Crown Jewels. (hide spoiler)]

I agree with the first part of your spoiler, and hadn't considered the second part. It's possible. I'm starting to get the feeling that Kearsley was influenced by this one, sort of shades of Mariana.

Diane Lynn wrote: "Jeannette wrote: "Diane Lynn wrote: "End of chapter 7. So help me get this right, [spoilers removed]. Sounds like a wild maze;)"

There was, indeed!! Still want the map? ;)"

Ok, looks like the ma..."

Is that a pun? ;)

I still want to read Marianna and Rose Garden but I'm taking a break from her for just a bit.

Diane Lynn wrote: "I still want to read Marianna and Rose Garden but I'm taking a break from her for just a bit."

Understandably. I'll read Firebird, and then I have to pick what's next.

Jeannette wrote: "Is that a pun? ;) "

Just a little one;)

From what we know of Nick so far, I feel kind of sorry for him.

You think this has shades of Mariana, Firebird has characters Rob and Nicola, but she was called Nicky or Nick IIRC.

And we had a Nicola in The Moonspinners!! (also called Nicky)

I'm back from our long weekend trip. Will have to look up those Kearsley books you all are talking about.

I have to agree with Jeannette about the identity of the lover.

Nice scene between Rob and Bryony cooking sausages, chips and tomatoes. Very at home she is.

Judith wrote: "I'm back from our long weekend trip. Will have to look up those Kearsley books you all are talking about.

I have to agree with Jeannette about the identity of the lover.

Nice scene between Rob ..."

I thought that scene was so sweet and relaxed, they work well together.

If you haven't read The Winter Sea, it's a good one.

I second The Winter Sea!

Off to Amazon I go....
you people are not helping me to dwindle my to read pile!!
Judith

:D

Judith wrote: "Off to Amazon I go....
you people are not helping me to dwindle my to read pile!!
Judith"

Not gonna happen being on goodreads! ;)

Jeannette wrote: "I second The Winter Sea!"

Third!

More lyrical description at the start of Chapter 6 of very early in the morning in England in May. It is like that, in the country, absolutely gorgeous - once one can get over the fact that it's only five o'clock!

I thought that in chapter 7 (view spoiler)[.the use of the tour to describe the Court and give it history, including that of Nick and his love, was a good device - lots of information without it feeling 'dumped'. (hide spoiler)]

Interesting to see in Chapter 8 Bryony's reaction to (view spoiler)[a rival, should her mystery lover prove to be Emory. But she doesn't seem to want him to be Emory, judging by her earlier description of him. That would leave James or Francis which is one reason why she's disappointed to find James 'twinning' for Emory. (hide spoiler)]

I think Bryony is pretty confused about her lover at this point. I know I am.

I'm sure the 1835 excerpts will fit into the story at some point, but right now I'm finding them distracting and am skimming them a bit. Should I be paying more attention?

They are really short, but added to the suspense, for me at least, of the ending.

I agree, I read them all and felt they added to each chapter.

They mirror the action in the story at an emotional level some of the time.

And all the 1835 entries make their own little story that you will want to have followed. IMO

I think I"ll go back and read just the 1835 excerpts that I've read so far.

Diane Lynn wrote: "And all the 1835 entries make their own little story that you will want to have followed. IMO"

Yes, you do need to read them.

Chapter 7:(view spoiler)[Nick was killed the night after his father died--isn't that the same night that's in the 1835 story at the end of each chapter? *Trots off to check prior chapters* Yes, that's what the end of chapter 4 indicates. That makes that whole storyline really bittersweet. There must be some significance to this. I'm with Diane Lynn: I'm guessing his lover had a child who is Rob's ancestor, giving him the power to "speak" to Bryony. (hide spoiler)]

I agree with HJ's spoiler comment about Chapter 7.

I hadn't thought of Rob at all as a possibility but now that you mention it. I really wish I could remember more of what I read the first time, or maybe I don't. This way it is like reading for the first time.
As for Nic and the 1835 story, it certainly sounds like this is a real love that Nic has for this woman and not just another one night stand. So, it does make it rather sad.

Mrs. Henderson... "was about as silent as a computer in full spate" made me laugh. What a difference a few decades can make!

Moving the threads up for July 2023.

The bits of the surviving class system in this section are making me a little uncomfortable—Bryony and Rob seem so comfortable with each other but he calls her “Miss Bryony”; Mrs. Henderson “doing for” everybody, etc. The economic issues with the estate, however, ring very true to the time period.

Lover is starting to annoy me with his coyness.

There is so much I like about this book; it's beautifully written and constructed. It is a case where having already read the book enhances the re-reading experience, because I can see the little clues and twists and turns, and foreknowledge also assuages some of the frustration, because I know how things will work out in the end. But the frustration along the way remains considerable.

And when I say "frustration," that is spelled B-R-I-O-N-Y:

(1) I would have loved to have seen a little of Mrs Bennet's fire over the injustice of entailment away from the female line, rather than "This 'guilt' thing is nonsense! and Daddy would have been the first to say so." Tell that to Lady Catherine De Bourgh!

(2) When she asks "lover" why he wasn't there when she was sobbing over her father, he paternalistically, responds, "Because it was time you cried it all out and that's a thing one wants to do by oneself." OH IS IT? Thank you for making that decision for me!

(3) When she agrees to allow James to pretend to be Emory (for the second time) rather than tell Cat and family what's up, it's so creepy and so very very wrong. She says, "It's a bit too late to tell the truth now, so I'll try not to give you away." Hon, it is never too late to do the right thing.

(4) When she informs James about the stolen items, which the lawyer has made clear are HERS until probate is complete, and includes items that are hers outside of the trust as well, James patronizingly says, "Well, leave it, honey... you really don't have to worry yourself about it. That's our job." OH IS IT? NO IT IS LITERALLY NOT!

Getting myself worked up here.

On the plus side, I do want to recognize an element that I am appreciating for the first time with this reading, which are the mixed emotions of saying goodbye to a beloved old home. I just downsized from a big house on an acre where I raised my children, to a 1500 sq foot condo. On the one hand, I was so very very happy to see the end of cleaning a big old house, crawling around on my hands and knees in a big old garden, and shoveling money into the money pit that is keeping up an older home. On the other hand, it was like having my heart ripped out of my chest to make the move, even though I knew it was the right thing to do. All those elements really resonated with me on this reading, as Bryony processes the certain knowledge that her home is no longer manageable by normal people with normal funds and it will be a relief to unload it on someone else, but also very very sad.

I feel for your mixed feelings about downsizing! They say every move has the emotional toll of a bereavement, and having had to move five times in one decade I can certainly relate. I wound up in a condo during that process and it was so hard on me (being in the Stewart class of nature-loving) that in the end I wound up finding a cheaper area to live and upsizing again! The seller of my current house left me fifteen bookcases and after four years in which every time I bought a book I had to give one away, I could have kissed her feet.

You put your finger on some of the dated bits in the story; I tend to find Mary Stewart’s male characters a bit too domineering for my taste, but the characters here weren’t as bad as some. And she certainly serves up some complicated ethical dilemmas in this story! The one at the end had me grinding my teeth.

Oh my gosh, 5 times in 10 years! I don't know you you survived; that's just so much disruption. I don't see myself upsizing at this point, but never say never. I'm so happy for you to be able to be in a book rich environment again. We got rid of 90% of our books in the move, and the only ones I really regret giving up were my Golden Age of Detective fiction collection (christie, sayers, et al). But now I have the fun of rebuilding it, or at least that's how I've chosen to look at it.

I agree about the domineering male characters, and I do try to accept them for what they are for the their time (evil twins excepted), but usually her female characters have more pluck: Linda in Nine Coaches Waiting and Lucy in This Rough Magic would wipe the floor with poor Bryony.

Yes, I did find myself wondering in this book why she didn’t do more to safeguard herself, considering she wasn’t sure what exactly the hazards were.