SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I didn't want to overwhelm the welcome thread with this conversation so I've started this thread. I'm hoping other members will stop by and give ByTheFire Reading some other scifi recommendations. It all started with:

"Hi Everyone, I am "ByTheFire Reading" and this is my first post in my first group on Goodreads. I am currently reading "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy." I have enjoyed Fantasy books since junior high and high school, but I have never really read much Science Fiction and I really don't know why. I would like to find the answer here. And I wonder, does Hitchhiker's Guide "fit" in Science Fiction? Any answers and recommendations are welcome."

And later we got to this:

"Thank you for the quick reply. I am running off to work, but I am interested in why you recommend Ender's Game. I must confess, I began it a couple of weeks ago and could not get through the beginning chapters. What was I missing?"

Not every one will like the same books, but I love the Ender's Game series and the companion Ender's Shadow series. You do need to get past the very beginning of the book where they're setting up his life and reach the point where he's been in the school for a while. I don't want to give any spoilers.

To be honest though, we don't all like the same style of writing and not every character resonates with all of us. It would be easier to recommend some books if I could see your bookshelf to get an idea what you like.

Ender's Game is a bad book, though. Not getting through the first couple chapters shows good taste.

Instead, ByTheFireReading should try crossover books like Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey. (Direct sequels Dragonquest and The White Dragon.)

I'd have to look at By's book list to give specific recommendations, but unlike Ender's Game, Flowers for Algernon is a classic work of science fiction that justly deserves its status as a great book. It feels a little less science fictional now than it did when written, but it's still incredibly powerful.

Trike wrote: "Ender's Game is a bad book, though. Not getting through the first couple chapters shows good taste."

Them's fighting words! :P I'm happy for other opinions but what do you mean? Bad story? Badly written? Dislike for the author? I need more than it's a bad book please.

Trike wrote: "I'd have to look at By's book list to give specific recommendations, but unlike Ender's Game, Flowers for Algernon is a classic work of science fiction that justly deserves its status as a great book. It feels a little less science fictional now than it did when written, but it's still incredibly powerful."

Yes I was going to suggest that ByTheFire make her (?) profile open. I've never understood closing profiles on GR particularly if you're not using your real name. But of course whatever makes you most comfortable.

I'd also highly recommend Dune which I only read for the first time earlier this year. If you like your books deep and full of questions I loved The Dispossessed. I read them one after the other so I always think of the one when I think of the other. Old Man's War is fantastic scifi and very easy reading.

All personal preference of course :)

There is no hard and fast line between F and SF, ok? It is mainly a marketing categorization created by publishers, so that the clerks at B&N know where to put the paperbacks. (Proof? That you can shift a work from F to SF, or back again, by changing the cover picture. A dragon or unicorn or sword, F. Rockets and ray guns, SF.)
If you look closely at many of the works in the genre you will see that it is a spectrum. Some works are clearly the hardest of hard SF (Robert Forward, Hal Clement) while others are indubitably fantasy (Tolkien, J.K. Rowling). But in the middle there is a whole lot of wobble. Topics of dozens of pages can be found right here on Goodreads debating which works should be slotted where.
If you enjoy that kind of debate, have at it. I would simply read what you enjoy reading. It's a big world out there; go explore it.

I can relate to ByTheFire Reading. I'm more of a fantasy reader myself, who only occasionally delves into the vast darkness of space.

Therefore I would agre with Old Man's War being a good read for a newbie.
I seldom read books in only one or two days, but this one just was too good to put down and wasn't overly techy or complicated.

The same is true for Leviathan Wakes. It has two very interesting main protagonists and is an easy read.
I picked it up, cause I like the fantasy author Daniel Abraham, who is one of the two collaborating authors hiding behind the James S.A. Corey pseudonym.

I also tried myself on more complex things. Pandora's Star was not really for me and I abandoned it after 250 pages, but I want to give the author another try.
Another one I tried is Alistar Reynolds. I read Revelation Space and this one I really liked. I bought a few other novels by him and hopefully will get to them soonish.

This is all the advice I have...or maybe one other thing. On many SF recommendation threads, there are a lot of fans recommending a lot of classic stuff (Asimov, Heinlein, Dick...).
I personally have to admit that just for the purpose for getting to know the genre, it might be easier to start of with a few more modern and easier to get into authors.
If you then decide that you like to stick with the genre, I would start throwing in the classics.

Brenda wrote: "There is no hard and fast line between F and SF, ok?"

Brenda, that's not what this thread is about. There is a thread dedicated to the distinction between fantasy and science fiction here. You're welcome to go share your thoughts on the topic there. This thread is about giving some scifi recommendations to a new member.

I recently read this and found it an easy read that only borders on a discussion of time-travel. More philosophical than hard sci-fi. How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe

For someone who likes fantasy and is just getting into SF, I probably wouldn't recommend any really "hard" science fiction (space opera, heavy emphasis on technology, or "military" SF) to start with; but that leaves a lot of good stuff to choose from.

Despite all the "Hollywood hype" that surrounds the movies, product marketing, etc. I thought that Suzanne Collins Hunger Games trilogy was a very good read, and would be something I would recommend.

I wonder how fantasy readers would react to a series like Peter F. Hamilton's Void trilogy (The Dreaming Void, The Temporal Void and The Evolutionary Void.

It is set in a very SF world, but there are large sections of the books dedicated to what is essentially a fantasy world (those sections are low-tech with powers that are essentially magical). There ends up being a scientific explanation of this fantasy world, but being strictly a SF reader, I found it far too fantasy for my liking (as if the author really wanted to write fantasy but couldn't shake off his SF roots).

I'd be curious to see if fantasy readers like it, or if the SF elements are too strong that it spoils there fantasy pleasure.

He, he, if that turned out to be the case, this trilogy could be considered the Windows 8 of literature!

Another possibility might be Alastair Reynolds's Terminal World, which is another low-tech SF story (with scientific justification). It contains just a bit of near-magic, and some smattering of higher technology, but might be a decent in between.

Hidden off-topic comment about Fantasy versus SF: (view spoiler)[Brenda wrote: "There is no hard and fast line between F and SF, ok? It is mainly a marketing categorization created by publishers, so that the clerks at B&N know where to put the paperbacks."

Since these genre distinctions existed prior to modern marketing by publishers and bookstores, this isn't true. Similarly, just because some people misuse terms doesn't invalidate those terms.

Examples: Hyundai is calling their 3-door car a "coupe." It's not a coupe. A coupe has two doors. People call creatures like Dimetrodon and Pterodactyl "dinosaurs" but they aren't. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't use the word dinosaur for things that are actually dinosaurs.

I think what you're railing against is not the notion of categorization but rather the ghettoization of certain genres. Snobs like Margaret Atwood had for years dismissed sci-fi and insisted she didn't write it, and lots of people share her disdain for Fantasy and Science Fiction. Often readers of one will have that same disdain for the other.

As I've mentioned in the various SF v F threads, categorization isn't a bad thing. It helps us sort things out mentally, which is both natural to humans and vitally important to viewing the world. (Look up the history of the color blue, as an example -- people who have no word for blue literally can not see it.)

On a more mundane level it helps us, as readers, find things we like. If we liked A, perhaps we will like B. But we can only know that if we have proper categorization. (hide spoiler)]

John wrote: "John Siers | 108 comments For someone who likes fantasy and is just getting into SF, I probably wouldn't recommend any really "hard" science fiction (space opera, heavy emphasis on technology, or "military" SF) to start with; but that leaves a lot of good stuff to choose from.

Despite all the "Hollywood hype" that surrounds the movies, product marketing, etc. I thought that Suzanne Collins Hunger Games trilogy was a very good read, and would be something I would recommend. "

Very good point. A lot of post-apocalypse Science Fiction can feel like Fantasy. Damnation Alley has slightly more tech than A Canticle for Leibowitz, but that's only because it happens right after civilization gets smashed and they still have trucks and guns. But for either, the science fictional bar is pretty low and you don't have to know "science stuff" to enjoy them. ACFL is probably very similar to a Fantasy, actually.

Trike wrote: "Brenda wrote: "There is no hard and fast line between F and SF, ok? It is mainly a marketing categorization created by publishers, so that the clerks at B&N know where to put the paperbacks."

Sinc..."

This is a fascinating discussion. So much so that it has its own thread! Over here! The place for this conversation is not in this thread, which is about recommendations. Lets not derail it please.

Hence the hiding.

I agree that A Canticle for Leibowitz is a good place to start for anyone looking to make the transition. And a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy isn't bad either. The sci-fi elements aren't dwelled upon too much in favor of characters and story. It's just a comedy in space. And a darn good one, too.

I would also recommend Isaac Asimov. While his work was considered pretty hard sci-fi at the time, modern readers will probably find the technology in his stories pretty soft. And there a plenty of great concepts to ponder in his books that wouldn't be too foreign to fantasy readers.

I'd agree that Anne McCaffrey's Dragonflight and Dragonquest are good crossovers for a fantasy reader, and perhaps Julian May's Pliocene Exiles series.

My recommendations to a newbie SF reader, would be most anything written about Greg Bear, Isaac Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke.

Each do have their caveats, though. I'm not a real big fan of Greg Bear's Quantum Logic series.

Haven't read anything that Asimov wrote that I really disliked. Some of his books can drag on, though. Evidence, the Foundation Trilogy. Which is now, the Foundation series as 7 books makes for a dysfunctional Trilogy.

Some of Clarke's work is tedious, also. His Space Odyssey expanded into 4 books. After the 1st 2, to me, they seemed to be "if they continue to buy them, I'll continue to write them." 2001: A Space Odyssey was amazing. Next one, pretty good. Downhill from there.

Actually, pretty much the same could be said about Frank Herbert's Dune series. Dune was a landmark book. Next couple, pretty good. But, from there, not so much.

His son's prequel books kind of did the same thing. The Dune world is amazing. But, you can get too much of a good thing. Or, at least, I did.

Not all will agree, but, I've read that a difference of opinions is what makes a horse race. Or, hopefully, in this case, a good discussion. Wouldn't it be boring if we all felt the same way about every book we'd ever read?

The best 'fantasy-like' science-fiction book I've read is Terry Pratchett's Strata, which has a manufactured fantasy landscape on an artificial world (the original discworld, no less), but is still definitely sci-fi.

I would second (third?) Anne McCaffrey's Pern series and seeing as Hunger Games has been recommended, in a similar vein, I'd recommend Patrick Ness' 'Chaos Walking' series, which starts with The Knife of Never Letting Go.

My list of recommended sci-fi books for someone more familiar with Fantasy is exactly the same as for someone more familiar with detective stories, or romance novels, or nonfiction. I see no reason to make any distinction - good scifi is good scifi, no matter where you're coming from. Dune. The Foundation series. Heinlein's Future History and Stranger in a Strange Land. C.S. Lewis' Space Trilogy. Donaldson's Gap series. Ender's Game. 2001 (but NOT the sequals). Contact. Snow Crash. All of these are good enough to stand for themselves regardless of what genre you are coming from.

Penny wrote: "I didn't want to overwhelm the welcome thread with this conversation so I've started this thread. I'm hoping other members will stop by and give ByTheFire Reading some other scifi recommendations. ..."

What a great idea, Penny, to start this new thread. I am looking forward to reading everyone's ideas and recommendations! Thank you!

Trike wrote: "Ender's Game is a bad book, though. Not getting through the first couple chapters shows good taste.

Instead, ByTheFireReading should try crossover books like Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey. (Direc..."

Trike~thanks for support on E.G....now at least I don't feel like such a moron...I do plan to try again, after enjoying some of the recommendations here. I was pleasantly surprised to see your recommendation of "Flowers for Algernon" YAY! Finally, a book I've read. I agree there is a lot of cross-over among genres. Thank you!

My recommendation if you can't get into Ender's Game... try starting with Ender's Shadow instead. The Shadow series is superior by far (IMHO).

I don't read a lot of sci-fi in general, and what sci-fi I do read is probably closer to fantasy anyway... but here are a few I'd recommend, particularly to someone who prefers fantasy:

The Icarus Hunt
Angelmass
The Lost King (and series)
Sphere
Night Train to Rigel
Dune
Prelude to Foundation
Foundation

The Darkover novels by Marion Zimmer Bradley are set on another planet, but have a very fantasy like feel. I would recommend those.

I'd second the Darkover novels too. Definitely Sci-fi with a fantasy feel.

I'd like to add a vote for the Darkover series as well.

Mpauli wrote: "I can relate to ByTheFire Reading. I'm more of a fantasy reader myself, who only occasionally delves into the vast darkness of space.

Therefore I would agre with Old Man's War being a good read fo..."
Thank you, Mpauli for giving me book recommendations. I am going to follow your advice and read "Old Man's War" next. Your point about classic verses newer works of science is very interesting to me. I think it will work for me to begin with newer books and then add classics (this from me, the person who is reading Hitchhiker's Guide written in 1979) :)

Maggie wrote: "I recently read this and found it an easy read that only borders on a discussion of time-travel. More philosophical than hard sci-fi. How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe"

Thanks, Maggie! I have put it in my "Want to Read" shelf. From your description, I know it will pair nicely with an Ethics and Philosophy class I'm taking this semester.

If you like kaiju, Hiroshi Yamamoto's MM9 has some really fanciful science that reads a lot like a magic system. There's no Pacific Rim-style tech as they deal with the giant monsters, mostly just a team figuring out ways to track, trap and trick skyscraper-sized beasts.

ByTheFire wrote: "Maggie wrote: "I recently read this and found it an easy read that only borders on a discussion of time-travel. More philosophical than hard sci-fi. How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Unive..."

Youre welcome! and I wouldnt recommend the Ender books-very controversial!

Maggie wrote: "Your welcome! and I wouldnt recommend the Ender books-very controversial!..."

To be more specific Orson Scott Card the author of the Ender books is very controversial. I'm not sure the books themselves are controversial. The issue on whether to read them/support an author who is as anti-gay as Card is a different discussion.

I agree w/those who've recommended Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern series.

Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun also comes to mind -- but it may be darker than you like, ByTheFire, esp. if you're looking for something more humorous in the vein of Hitchhiker's Guide

Something space-based but lighter (though not an out-and-out comedy) & with a focus on the character relationships is C.J. Cherryh's Chanur Saga.