Pick-a-Shelf discussion

I thought it would be interesting to discuss what makes the various books we have chosen "timeless". What elements go into the making of a classic? What books out today do we think will be "classic" 100 years from now?

Alright, since I read this question it has been running around in the back of my mind. I need to answer!!

For me, "classic" has to withstand the test of time. Some books are currently popular, but if they fade away over the years they won't become classics. Classics must make a permanent mark in society over many generations.

Having said that, there are many great, great books out there that aren't necessarily considered classics but are definitely worth reading. Just because a book is popular doesn't make it an automatic classic.

Part 2 of the question I am still pondering.

For me it is all about theme. I think classics have themes that are meaningful to readers during their generations and for readers in generations to come. Themes such as love, rivalry, and understanding the world and people around us. Classics can share with us another time and place, but the theme is something that we can identify with. Classics should make you think. I agree with Lauren, I do not think that they have to be popular currently or in the time it was first published, but they do stand the test of time. I may also contend that many classics also challenge their generation and may actually be less popular at the date of publication. My example is The Scarlet Letter, themes of adultery and what makes a person a good person is still a meaningful theme to us today. With that, I am still thinking about the second part of the question as well... and will get back to you.

I agree, my husband and I discussed this question at lentgh on the way to Las Vegas this weekend and we decided that Classics deal with human universals (your themes) like love, bravery, struggle, cost, sacrafice, etc. and so can transcend time and place. I may not live in the England of Dickens or Austen, or the future of "The Giver" or (ironically) "1984" or even the world of Haryy Potter's Hogwarts...but I can imagine how I would feel going through what these characters are experiencing. Humans are humans regardless of the time or place they were born. In my school we call those things we have in common "Cultural Universals" and I think the classics are those books that best tap into what make us truly human.

Ok - so here is my take. I think what makes a book a classic depends on whether it stands the test of time. Part of it is theme related, will the themes in the book still be relevant long after it is published? In addition, will it still be a good read many years later? A Classic can fit either one of these criteria, or both. A classic should not only be thought provoking as in the case of The Giver, but it should also transport you into the lives and times of the characters as with Gone With The Wind

As for popularity, I agree that popularity in and of itself does not make a book a classic. And, as Tara says, in some cases the book may not be popular at the time it is written, but its theme will still endure. Another example of this is Breakfast at Tiffany's by Truman Capote. Some of the themes in the book were so unpopular during the era it was written, that when they made the movie they totally changed a number of the characters and the ending. Yet both the story in the book, and the story in the movie, are classic in their own way, and thus the work is a classic.

As for part two of the question, there are a few books that I feel will be classics in the future. One is People of the Book. This book is both beautifully written, and the themes are timeless.

Also, some books are classics withing their genre, even though they may not be Classics with a capital C. For example Riders of the Purple Sage is a classic of the western genre, and Hawaii A Novelis a classic of the historical fiction genre. In that vein, I believe The Afghan by Frederick Forsythe will become a classic.

I just thought of another book that I think will be come a classic if it isn't already. It is The Outsiders.

I am still thinking, but the only book that I can think of right off the bat is The Secret Life of Bees. I hopefully will think of more.

So Tara, that's an interesting comment, please follow up. What is it about "The Secret Life of Bees" that you believe will make it stand the test of time?

I think "Harry Potter and the ..." will remain a classic as it taps into the very things we have been addressing here: good and evil, loyalty, bravery, coming of age, destiny, heros, love, loss etc. Plus the characters have depth and the story uses great writing techniques like foreshadowing to keep the reader interested.

I am trying to think of a regular fiction book I have read, but haven't come up with anything yet. Maybe classics are not recognized in their own time?

O.K. O.K. Lynne, your a bit of a Task Master, but I've fallen for it regardless. I'll answer in relation to Revolutionary Road By Richard Yates, as it's the later of the two Classics I've read this month so far.
I would say that this book was quite ground breaking in subject matter at the time of it's release in 1961. Abortion, severe marital dysfunction, mental health, depression, victim issues & parental unhappiness. All of this is so everyday now, yet in the early 1960's none of these things would have come up in common conversation unless you were gossiping about someone else I'm sure.
I think it has to be a classic as it introduced or upped the reality of reality, gave a commonly hidden thing, a voice.
In relation to relating to any of the characters Lynne, they were not exactly your prize of people. The only one I remotely liked was the Nosy neighbours facility committed Son, John Givings. He may have been the only one on day release, but I think even he would be glad to be going home to the hospital at the end of the day.

Okay, I am not sure if The Secret Life of Bees will become a classic, but why I think it might is that it is a well thought out story that has a protaganist that see the problems with society's norms (at the time) and wants to help and in her own way, change things. I think it is a theme that will never die. Their will always be minorities and injustices that occur to them (as much as I would like to say that at some time their is not) so the theme is in that sense a timeless one (in a way that makes it similar to the book I am reading now The Scarlet Pimpernel). It makes you think about the things people do to each other and how if you take a second to know someone, you can see that we all struggle with life and are more similar than different.

Another book that I thought about is Water for Elephants. I think it has a classic storyline as well. Good overcoming adversity. True love finding each other in the end.

It's interesting Tara that you say that you percieve these books as becoming 'classics' perhaps in time. Similar to Slayermel's thinking with The Giver perhaps not being worthy of a 'classics' association just yet as it hasn't paid it's dues in relation to age. Their does seem to be a link. Another link to consider in relation to 'classics' is the connection many of these books have, is with having been banned at one stage or another. Banning means to me, some form of 'risky' subject matter. Or new and uncovered territory/ ground breaking material that takes something that may only be thought about, out into the broader world. That would make Banning or Burning a 'classic(s) reaction'!

Cam: wrote: "O.K. O.K. Lynne, your a bit of a Task Master, but I've fallen for it regardless. I'll answer in relation to Revolutionary Road By Richard Yates, as it's the later of the two Classics..."

Maybe that's because if the subject matter isn't somewhat touchy there isn't anything really serious for the protagonists to overcome. Part of what we have said makes a classic is the way the book deals with deep human emotion andpeople overcomeing adversity, being brave in differing situations etc. You don't have to do that if everything is 'hunky-dory'. I would say "The Scarlet Letter" is another book that perfectly fits into the category of the "shocking for its time and now a classic" mold.

Cam: wrote: "O.K. O.K. Lynne, your a bit of a Task Master, but I've fallen for it regardless. I'll answer in relation to Revolutionary Road By Richard Yates, as it's the later of the two Classics..."

Well, I am a teacher, and school's out so who else am I going to boss around? :) No seriously, thanks for stepping up to the plate, I really enjoy these thoughts from the clever people of GoodReads. And BTW, I don't think you would remeind me of anyone in "Revolutionary Road" either.

Tara wrote: "Okay, I am not sure if The Secret Life of Bees will become a classic, but why I think it might is that it is a well thought out story that has a protaganist that see the problems with ..."

Thanks a lot Tara, you just made me add 2 more books to the already prodigeous slopes of MT. TBR. Thank goodness "The Secret Life of Bees" was already there.

Lynne wrote: "Tara wrote: "Okay, I am not sure if The Secret Life of Bees will become a classic, but why I think it might is that it is a well thought out story that has a protagonist that see the p..."

Always here to help. I have my own TBR mountain that grows rather than shrinks as well. What do you teach? I teach kids with Autism, mostly at the elementary level, but recently I have have worked at the middle and high school level too.

Tara wrote: "Lynne wrote: "Tara wrote: "Okay, I am not sure if The Secret Life of Bees will become a classic, but why I think it might is that it is a well thought out story that has a protagonist ..."

Wow, you have a WAY tougher job than I do. I commend you. I just teach "normal", if there is such a thing :), middle school kids math. Too bad I can't convince most of them that reading is as great as I think it is. I love teaching, but that doesn't mean I'm not REALLY happy it's summer! LOL

I feel sorry for those poor kids (and teachers!) out in Chino, California, who are going to have to go to school all summer, because their administrators can't do basic math.

I agree Susanna! If this were to ever happen in the school district that I work for, heads would be rolling...

Okay, I have to admit I never watch the news or read the papers (too busy reading and watching my sons play baseball) so....WHAT HAPPENED IN CHINO, CA?

Apparently the state of California allows for "short" Fridays, kinda "Teacher Work Days"? They are required to have 180 minutes of classroom instruction, and then they can let the kids go home early.

This district had "short" Fridays with 175 minutes of classroom instruction, all year. None of these days now "count," and the kids have to go to school all summer.

Some of the parents were quoted as saying they thought the administrators ought to be in summer school, instead - in remedial math!

Some interesting ideas that I would agree with - universal themes and having stood the test of time. A classic needs to speak to us about our lives (even whilst transporting us to another time and place).

I've been thinking about this question while finishing O Pioneers! I stopped at one point to write these thoughts, which I also incorporated into my review of the book:

A classic gives you a chance to step back and see your life through new eyes and compare it through the light of new experiences that you've never actually had, but feel like you have now that you've read about them. A classic is a book that changes you, even just a little, in a profound way, just because you've read it.

Luann wrote: "I've been thinking about this question while finishing O Pioneers! I stopped at one point to write these thoughts, which I also incorporated into my review of the book:

A classic giv..."

I like the idea that it changes you. A classic book should be one that stays with you long after you have read it. One that you reflect on through the years. For me the book was The Scarlet Letter. Often I reflect on that book even though it has been over 15 years since I first read it.

That sounds about right, Tara. A classic book should be one that stays with you long after you read it. Take for instance, Winona Ryder, the actress. I heard she keeps a copy of the "Catcher in the Rye" in her purse at all times. If it were me, I would have "Of Mice and Men" or "Farenheit 451"

Tara wrote: "Luann wrote: "I've been thinking about this question while finishing O Pioneers! I stopped at one point to write these thoughts, which I also incorporated into my review of the book:
..."

Tara, you are the "Shelf Picker" for July. Congratulations. Let me know if you need any help starting the strands.

Lynne wrote: "I agree, my husband and I discussed this question at lentgh on the way to Las Vegas this weekend and we decided that Classics deal with human universals (your themes) like love, bravery, struggle, ..."

Oooh! This has got me thinking, as I was reading people's posts it occured to me that with
The Chronicles of Narnia being a classic in and of itself, it has been purchased for each child in our family since it was published. Although I am unable to finish a Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone novel, it has occured that it has some tennets that align itself with Narnia and gives them the potential to be another classic series as time passes.

Luann wrote: "I've been thinking about this question while finishing O Pioneers! I stopped at one point to write these thoughts, which I also incorporated into my review of the book:

A classic giv..."

Then does this mean that all

Jodi Picoult, Diane Hammond, Sara Gruen and others are fit to be classics? What about Paulo Coelho's novels? Given the nature of a classic novel, what are the makers of a Classic Writer?

Good question, Erynn. I think that Paulo Coelho's novels, at least some of them, are definitely destined to be classics. They deal with major themes, and most of the people I know who have read them would classify them as life changing books.

As to what are the traits of a Classic Writer. That is a harder question for me. There are many writers who have one or two books that turn out to be classics, but not all of their books do. Then there are others, for example John Steinbeck or Mark Twain who end up having almost all of their books considered as classics.

What do you all think of Jane Austen? I think she would be considered as one of those writes whose books have all become classics. My question is, is it because she herself was such a ground breaking person, being a female writer in a time when only lmen were allowed to be published. Or is it because of the theme of independent women that flows through all of her stories? Or do you not consider her a classic writer at all?

She was certianly pivital... and my brain stops, it's either late, or I have played too much baking life today on facebook.

I think you are confusing Classics and Literary Novels. They definitely have similar elements, but real classics can be commercial fiction. Most classics are literary novels, but there are some which are commercial-- or at least it seems that way for me. Consider Jane Austen's novels: do they speak any for the universal themes of human nature? They are sweet romances, known for being the first pieces of literature to focus on certain aspects of society. I love Jane Austen, but I consider her novels as classics only for the history they share and their timeless sweetness.

Considering this, I think of classics as pieces that introduce something new to humanity. This something new is usually in terms of human nature, which is why so many people would classify classics as literary novels, but this something new could be anything, really. Anything that changes our world, that speaks something new, something true and innate. Something that reaches down and reveals something humankind never considered before.