Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

Ah. The old, authors buying each other's books to push up rankings trick, but now we get to pay for the privilege too.

I believe the words are sleazy and underhanded...

Not that I'd discourage other writers from buying each others books, but purely for rank... nope.

I read this yesterday and I was so confused..so basically its saying if you buy others books they will then buy yours? Or you place your book into the site and then read others books to which then they will read yours? I have heard of the read for read, buy for buy, heck I've done it a few times here on GR. However as a site that specifically pertains to the very concept I am unsure as to how it works and if the results are realistic. I don't Harry, I see it and I read it but I'm still a bit unsure as to how it all works out. I like guarantees and if I invest in something I like to know it works out in the end.

I read the main page, the "How it works page" and the FAQ page. So this is how this program works.

You pay $50 a month and choose how many swaps you want to do. The site then sends you lists of books that you then NEED TO GO BUY. Likewise, your book is sent to other authors who have signed up who then need to buy your book. Oh, if you don't buy any books in three months, you automatically get dropped from the program. So you're paying to get a list of books which you have to buy a certain number of. That number matches how many buys you want your book to have. So if you want your book bought 12 times (which is going to be a drop in the bucket as far as raising your rating, the whole point of this scam.) You have to buy 12 other people's books for that month.

Shaun wrote: "I read the main page, the "How it works page" and the FAQ page. So this is how this program works.

You pay $50 a month and choose how many swaps you want to do. The site then sends you lists of b..."

What a crazy scheme...Couldn't one find a group of authors on Good Reads to do this and skip the $50 a month LOL

So, bottom line? You're paying $62 a month to make 12 sales for that month. I don't understand how 12 sales a month is going to raise your amazon best seller rank by much. I must be missing something.

Hmm..Thanks for explaining Shaun! Definitely doesn't sound like a deal for me.

Fifty bucks to join? I got thirteen reviews just by posting on sites like this free of charge.

Peggy wrote: "So, bottom line? You're paying $62 a month to make 12 sales for that month. I don't understand how 12 sales a month is going to raise your amazon best seller rank by much. I must be missing something."

Well, since they guarantee six sales a day for thirty days, you figure you'll have 180 sales per month. But to do that you'll spend close to $230 a month ($50 fee + $180 (that's the 6 per day x 30 days). Amazon changes their best seller numbers by the hour. So, you pay all that money and maybe hold a spot in the Top 100s for an hour or two, maybe a day. Too many people on here getting purchase swaps together for free. Without any obligation.

Briar wrote: "The Internet is very crowded. Authors need to consider how they can sell offline. I've reached over a quarter of a million readers so far by...

http://briarkitesme.com/2013/09/10/fi...-..."

I agree. You have to get out there and sale your book. And improving your visibility on Amazon is just one way to do it, certainly not the only way. But it helps. It doesn't make sense to spend all your marketing money in the same place month after month. That won't help getting your book noticed.

Raymond wrote: "Shaun wrote: "I read the main page, the "How it works page" and the FAQ page. So this is how this program works.

You pay $50 a month and choose how many swaps you want to do. The site then sends ..."

Yes.

And, here's a group that doing it this Saturday. All books $.99 on Amazon.

Ok, class. Let's do some math!

Now then, we start with the basic fee charged. $50 a month. That's easy enough. On top of that, we have the books we're supposed to purchase. Let's go with the maximum, because less than that really isn't going to amount to that much. So. 180 books at 6 per day over a 30-day month. Let's assume everyone goes along with the plan and makes their books $0.99 each. add on tax, and it becomes 1.07 per book. So, $192.60 plus the monthly fee.

$262.60 a month.

Now. You might say the cost is off-set by the number of people that are buying your own book. For argument's sake. Let's assume your own book is also priced at the suggested $0.99 and that you get back your own 180 sales. (Which you cannot actually guarantee will happen.) Now, royalties through Kindle at the $0.99 mark is 35% or, $0.35.

So. For the 180 books you sold in the swap, you just made $63. So the author is now at a net -$179.60

Given that this program is on-going, you can't really bounce your book's price around between the people who buy your work through the program and those who are seeing it on the best-seller's list. So, the price of your book stays at $0.99. At that price and royalty, just to break even for one month, you would have to sell another 514 books.

Now, granted, if you can accomplish that, you should easily make the top 10 in your category and you could take a couple months off the program and raise the price before sales drop off substantially. But let's look at the two important things here you can't promise.

1. That the other authors who get lists of books to buy will actually buy those books.

2. That the resulting climb in rankings will actually lead to substantial organic sales.

Both of those are major aspects to your program that are out of your control. Which the website even says "A high ranking alone does not guarantee sales."

So this system is just like every other program that the website complains about where authors throw money for something that has no guarantee.

Now, I'm not saying this program is a scam for you as a reader, on the contrary, it attempts to provide a bounty of cheap books to read. For an author though, what makes it look like a scam is by attempting to charge for something authors could do just as easily all by themselves. As a matter of fact, I've read a few stories here on Goodreads where authors did that, got caught, and faced backlash over it. This program simply offers anonymity.

Now, one might ask why I'm tearing into this so much. The answer is that new, independent, and self-published authors do NEED help getting out there and getting noticed. I know it, the authors themselves know it, and worst of all, a lot of unscrupulous people have noticed it. From small presses that pop up, make a quick cash grab and disappear, to people claiming editor skills when they're writing in text-speak, to even other authors posing as beta-readers in order to snag other people's work and publish it first as their own. We need help getting our names out there, yes, but we also need help with warnings for companies and websites that may not be on the up-and-up. Calling this program a scam may be a little harsh overall, but I'm calling it as I see it. It's up to other people to look at the words on the screen and decide if they think the price is worth the risk.

I thi

I think it's funny that Harry has singled me out. He said "if you've tried everything else"...

The fact is, I haven't tried anything. I'm not interested in marketing. I'm interested in writing. And I still sell books, because apparently people like them.

I would rather have people buy my book because they are interested in what I have to say. Word of mouth is the most effective way of getting noticed, so I should write a good book. Share it with people following me, and encourage them to do soI also.

If I am going to spend money on marketing of any sort it will be sending free copies of my book to people who might read it. Less back handed that way.

Suppose I sign up, pay my $50 and then get linked to a bunch of books I have no interest in. Or suppose not all of those books are priced at $0.99 and that wasn't in the budget. If for whatever reason I don't click through that link and buy the book, I'm now banned for a week? If it happens twice, I get banned? Kicked out of the program and there goes $50 for the month. Hmmm....

Whether it's a scam or not, it certainly looks like one when the promoter can't write without copious amounts of exclamation points and question marks.

I'm immediately suspicious of anything with !! and ?? at the end of almost every sentence.

Call me jaded. Sorry if that offends you, Harry. It's not personal.

Harry, I'm not an author (I edit), so I have no risk in this, nor a desire to use it. I'm just telling you what it looks like in print. Scammers use a lot of that style of writing, so if you wish to be thought of as legitimate, you might consider adjusting your approach.

I'm not questioning your motives. My apologies if that's what it appeared to be.

Have any of you looked at writerbeware.com ? It has some really useful tips and links for Authors.

What, did that 14k not involve somebody telling you that bright salmon is hardly a good color for a website? This is some geocities realness right here.

And congrats, you are literally the first pyramid scheme I've seen in publishing. You're just blazing a path for scammers everywhere!

So, I see our promoter has withdrawn his comments and even the link to his page, as well as changed the name of the thread. Lovely. For those late-comers wondering what site and program we're talking about, it's www.authortrade.com

Just remember, while Goodreads is largely a site for readers, it provides an valuable service for authors as well. If you see a website or program that looks interesting, but you have some questions, pop on here somewhere and ask. Thanks, and good night. :-)

I removed all the information shaun because I got so sick of having to field flames from naysayers like you ... from here on out, our service is by invite only! I learned my lesson placing posts on message boards, and being thrashed for trying to help out this community.

But thanks for budding your nose in once again!

Shaun, I have to say, you were AWESOME! Concise, to the point, and hitting all the major facts.

My co-hosts and I actually talked about this on our podcast last night. selfpublishingroundtable.com, episode 13 if anyone is interested. I wish I would have read your comment before going on air. I would have read it for everyone listening.