The Sword and Laser discussion

I forget how it came up but my sons (ages 12 and 10) know I used to play D&D when I was a teenager and have asked me to run a D&D game for them. So ... First, yay. Second, I haven't played in over 20 years and the only rules I know are from the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons set, which has to be 30 years and god knows how many editions ago. ...

Which version of the rules should we use?

Should I get a module to run them through or make my own campaign? (I used to DM a little bit but I'm beyond rusty and doing a game for kids is a little more responsibility than when it was for siblings and friends.)

Any advice?

I've played 2, 3.5 and 4. I think 4.0 might be the best for kids, but everyone's opinions will vary.

One thing I like about it is that as a low level spellcaster you always have something to do. Every character has At-Will abilities, which are their go things that can have unlimited uses.

EX: In 3.5 Magic Missile is a 1st level spell and Wizards are limited to how many times they can cast it. In 4.0 it's an At-Will ability so when in doubt, a Wizard can always attack with Magic Missile. It's comparable to a warrior swinging their weapon.

I hated feeling useless in fights because I was saving spells for later.

I'd suggest starting with a Module. You might want to take a look at your library. You might be able to borrow the books and some modules (I know my friend was able to do that) to see if you sons like it before sinking money into the books.

Honestly that really depends, if you are locked into the idea of running official d&d then cruise over to the wizards site and sign up. This will get you a lot of use full tools like a monster and character builder that will save you hours. The down side is this would be 4th edition. Which if you are used to AD&D might not feel like D&D to you but may feel at home for your kids, if they play video games.
You could also grab the Pathfinder beginner box. This may feel more natural to you as it is a bit closer to what you already know. It also comes with several pregens and a module designed for new players and game masters. The down side here is that it is a simplified version of the PF rules and can give a slightly destorted view of the game.
You might also look into something like Castles and Crusades. Which was created to create that 2nd edition feel and whill be right up your alley. But can be hard to find adventures for if you don't want to make your own. Also may be hard to find other players locally if if your kids get hooked..

Full disclosure 4th edition wasn't my thing. But may still work very well for what you want. We need more people playing, no matter what game it is.

Thanks for the advice. They're into video games so it sounds like I should take a long look at 4th edition and use it unless it leaves me totally at sea. Those other games you mentioned sound great but they asked for "D&D" so that's what I'll give them.

Might want to try Mutants & Masterminds, using a version of D&D rules for superhero adventures.

4 and 3.5 might be hard going for kids, God knows I play every week with and adult group and we struggle sometimes! I'd suggest you check out 13th Age and/or Dragon Age depending on the kind of kid's you've got. Both are less number-crunchy than pure D&D; 13th Age is friendlier to storytellers whereas Dragon Age has a more traditional set up but less hard to get your head round, having very few tables to look up. The settings and scope are great in either case.

Apols for typos. Autocorrect plus app fail :(

According to Tom Hanks, Dungeons and Dragons is like the crack because grown adults when RPing can't tell the difference between real life and the game. Mmmkay!?
http://youtu.be/E6AOd6r6Qi8
http://youtu.be/ogrwfW1rsA4

Let me also recommend the original "Hackers" movie to see what the world of computers is really like. :-)
http://youtu.be/vYNnPx8fZBs

I just started running a Numenera campaign (new RPG by Monte Cook, for those not in the know) and I have to say, as someone who's played Pathfinder and D&D from versions 2 through 4, it's pretty nice. No dice rolling for the DM, so you can stay in the narrative, plus, once you get used to it, pretty straightforward mechanics that keep the game moving. I don't believe any of my players have had to look up a single thing after character creation. If you're looking to start something new you may want to check it out.

I also need to get around to trying the Fate system at some point... anyone have experience with the Dresden Files RPG?

I wanted to like dresden way more then I actually did. If i had only read the books and never actually played it I may still be gushing about it. Though i do know a lot of people who still love it. So take it as you will

4E is good for kids, but if you want something that really has the feel of the early editions of D&D while also being a bit more accessible for people who haven't played a game like D&D before, Castles & Crusades is really good.

My problem with 4E honestly was that while it does combat very well, it really doesn't try to do anything else.

Part of the reason why I brought up Castles & Crusades. It's a bit more of an accessible version of AD&D. It was actually one of Gary Gygax's last games before he died.

And it may be one of my faves. The only downside i could come up with for it in my original responce was that if it caught on with his kids, it might be hard finding locals to play

Maybe I should take them to our local gaming store, show them D&D 4, Dragon Age and Castles & Crusades, and see which one we come home with.

It won't so much be a matter of finding local players as figuring out which system is best for infecting their friends ;)

Sky wrote: "I also need to get around to trying the Fate system at some point..."

PDF copies of FATE are available for free/pay-what-you-like online here:

http://www.faterpg.com/

(FATE Core is the main system; FATE Accelerated is a stripped-down version of the rulebook)

I haven't really had a chance to read through it yet. I played an earlier version of FATE, a Spirit of the Century session at a gaming con a couple of years ago. I don't remember the details too well, but I remember it being very quick and easy to pick up.

A lot of the game revolves around convincing the GM that what you're attempting is appropriate. Usually, that means convincing him it would make an awesome story, which is generally win-win. But players who prefer more objective rules to the whim of the GM might not like it as much. Still, there's no risk in trying it out.

Now that sounds like fun for the whole family

Grab the Red Box. It's a starter kit for AD&D with beginner adventures that walk through everything.

Actually, we did get the red box. The guy at the store talked me out of getting the 3 manuals saying that you don't want to spend $100 to find out they hate it. (Shout out to The Compleat Strategist) My kids also voted for the red box when they saw the size of the real rulebooks ;)

So far, I've taken my 12-year-old through the starter pick-your-character adventure and he liked it.

Awesome!

Alan wrote: "So far, I've taken my 12-year-old through the starter pick-your-character adventure and he liked it.
"

Cool. You'll have to keep us updated. Always good to encourage the next generation.

Pathfinder! It's based on D&D 3.5, but simplifying it where it was needlessly complicated, and they're releasing books now. 4th is fine if they want to play D&D easy mode.

Pathfinder has a basic set that is perfect for learning rpgs. My 12 year old got it when he was 11 & used it to run games for his friends. They are using my Traveller rules now for thier current game. Another option is something like Descent by Fantasy Flight Games. It's a board game that captures the elements of rpgs very well. Allows the players to level and progress. Probably the simplest and most elegant system is Casltes and Crusades. It is very well supported also. It also has the best AD&D feel.

I am feeling really old right now, as I remember when 2E was the new kid on the block and endlessly debating the pros and cons with my brother and fellow gamers. I hope 4E catches on, or some of the other games mentioned here. As much as I love a good computer or console RPG game, there's really nothing quite like a great game of D&D.

4e didn't do so well. Wizards didn't have a booth at Gencon this year. They did run a bunch of demos of DND next, which was ok. I've tried it out and it looks ok. Pathfinder is a great extension of 3.5, but it still has all 3.5s flaws. I have moved more and more into indie RPGs like C&C and Dungeon Crawl Classics, the rpg the last 2 years. My kids launched with 3.5, rejected 4e and now play everything. There is a table of Mutants and Masterminds scheduled for this afternoon by my 15 year old and his buddies.

I do get why Wizards didn't bother with a booth, 4E is more or less dead, and Next isn't going to be ready for another year at least.

Christopher wrote: "I do get why Wizards didn't bother with a booth, 4E is more or less dead, and Next isn't going to be ready for another year at least."

Also, from what I've heard from beta testers, it's even worse than 4th. They should make 3.75 :D

I actually liked some of what I saw of Next.

I'm a next beta tester, have been for a year, they've made mistakes here and there but that's what a test is all about.

Some of the stuff I like, some I don't, some I liked and they took away, some I didn't and they erased it. Hopefully the finish product is great. And they don't go nuts releasing thousands of books just to fill their pockets. That's what killed 3.5 for me it took six hours to make a character because you HAD to comb through all the options. They had a million useless feats, "You gain a +1 when attempting to disarm a female rogue who has at least one level of spell caster." type of stuff. Or all those prestige classes that were just like the feats. Then every book clarified something about the rules but nobody could remember where they read that, so every other move was bogged down with grabbing books to find that rule about movement for a Ranger through dandelion fluff.

D&D K.I.S.S. is what I dream of. "Let's just play the damn game!" As their tagline.

Oh i think 1000 books is inevitable, but just because they are there does not mean i have to use them. I usually make a list of what books are allowed before any campaign, and hold players to them.

The Pathfinder Beginner Box costs around $30 and is meant for exactly this kind of thing. It includes everything you need. If you and the kids like it, it is quite easy to make the jump up to full Pathfinder (which is pretty much the same Dungeons and Dragons that most people remember, just with a different name). The initial map and adventure teach all of the basics.

I play Fate and they have release a quick start version that has worked well for my 7 year old call FAE. Plus it can be acquired for free from evil hat, the publisher.