The Sword and Laser discussion

Alright. So I know for a lot of people this hasn't felt very scifi-y (even though it is set in a speculative post-apocalyptic future), but I think that's just because one aspect of the story is never discussed openly, instead sitting just below the surface.

I knew something weird was going on from the start, but really began to pick up on something when we encountered the Prophet and his cult. Everything was just so generic. He wasn't merely a stock character, he was a caricature of one; somehow he'd wandered out of a dozen primetime dramas and into this critically acclaimed novel. He's a cult of personality head who rants about God purging sinners through natural disaster, who claims he needs to keep on purging, and also needs a steady supply of young brides....and that's it? Plop in any novel, in any setting, and he's so generic he'll never not-fit. The little boy crying for the caravan to take him with them was just hanging a lantern on the banality of it all.

But I kept going, and made it to the young guy who goes to hollywood and parties too much, discovering that that lifestyle is actually empty.

And then to the artist who rages against the machine, and doesn't want his girlfriend working for The Man, and will totally sell a painting soon and definitely isn't just a lazy asshole.

And that's when I was able to put together my theory--

All of the characters in this novel are actually robots.

This explains why the only characters who are not so bland that they lack all character are themselves just iterations of stock types.

This theory was confirmed in my mind when I got to aforementioned artist's [failed] attempt to communicate like a human being with his girlfriend.

They have a conversation over the phone where he creepily checks to make sure that she's in her office, before he spouts off generic "I'm Totally A Provider And Manly" BS. Then, after she hangs up on him, he emails her.

What human being has a fight with someone on the phone, and then continues the fight via email?

Who even has conversations via email except coworkers and very distant acquaintances?

And the email is this: "subject header is 'WTF, Miranda'" and body is "what's going on here? It seems like you're being weirdly hostile and kind of passive-aggressive. What gives?"

This interaction already would not pass a Turing test, but it gets even weirder, as he then moves on to texts.

Text 1: "??did u get my email???"

and then later: "r u mad at me?? ? ???"

Pablo is ostensibly a normal twenty-something man living in the present day. Why is he texting like that twelve year old girl from the early 00's phone commercials ("i was like omg thats my bff jill") or my late 50s/early 60s parents?

The only answer is that he is a computer who horribly misunderstands the nuances of human communication in the 21st century.

When we see Arthur again, post-marriage, I thought my theory might be in doubt, that he might gain depth, but no, he reenters the narrative as another stock character, the actor who sleeps with his costars just because.


Now, I know what you are thinking. "Rob, if they're all robots, how do you explain the pandemic in the first place? Or the fact that they all at least seem to think that they're human?"

Well, after giving it a good ponder, maybe "robot" wasn't completely correct. Maybe I should have said "artificial intelligence."

Because the only explanation for clearly artificial intelligences running around as if a plague has occurred is that they are part of a post-apocalyptic simulation.


The characters are an attempt to simulate the world leading up to the plague, and then the world's reaction to said plague.

Why is this simulation needed? And who is running it?

Well, I ask you, what is the one part of this novel that isn't completely generic, that actually always seems fresh and interesting (even if it is familiar)?

Doctor Eleven.

Doctor Eleven is real, he is on his station-world after a cataclysm, and he is wondering if he can 1. figure out how to prevent a cataclysm from happening again (thus the pre-plague sim) and 2. figure out when/if earth will be safe to return to (thus the post plague).

But then why is he in the simulation as a comic?

I don't know, programmers of videogames and crap put themselves in stuff all the time. Out of boredom or whimsy or whatever.

But this is the only explanation I can conceive of that makes sense of this novel as anything other than a string of stock characters acting very generically at each other in a series of bland vignettes.

Interesting theory. Does make some aspects of the book more intriguing, for sure, though it's still going to be a slog for me to finish (I'm about 45% in and finding everything and anything more exciting than reading it--even work). But I dig the theory. :)

Rob Secundus wrote: "What human being has a fight with someone on the phone, and then continues the fight via email?

Who even has conversations via email except coworkers and very distant acquaintances?
Without naming names, I know these people whose existence you're questioning. And add that these fights can go on for weeks. As for just conversations, I have a number of conversations with people over email. Frequently the reason for using email is that another form isn't most convenient right then (middle of the night, temporarily traveling, etc.) or that I need to include some other information (copy/pasting text, attaching a photo, etc.).

Text 1: "??did u get my email???"
and then later: "r u mad at me?? ? ???"
Pablo is ostensibly a normal twenty-something man living in the present day. Why is he texting like that twelve year old girl from the early 00's phone commercials..."

Sadly, I'm seeing more of this in older adults. Remember, that twelve year old girl from 2000 is now 27, and she didn't change her style of texting. Instead, she infected even older adults through 15 years of exposure.

He's a cult of personality head who rants about God purging sinners through natural disaster, who claims he needs to keep on purging, and also needs a steady supply of young brides.

He's...Immortan Joe? (Yeah, I'm gonna keep beating that drum till I punch a hole through it.)

Rob Secundus wrote: "Who even has conversations via email except coworkers and very distant acquaintances?
"

My own dear husband doesn't like phonecalls if there's an alternative. He hates being interrupted. And we both work full time. So yeah, most of our communication over the work day take place in email conversations which are brusk to the point of basically being drawn out IM conversations. For us, it appears to be speaking in person or email.

I hate phone texts because they cost. I wish I could convince all my relatives to use Facebook messenger or Google messenger or basically any messenger but the one that costs me money. Also for any real typing I want a real keyboard. *grumble gripe gripe*

I just wish all my friends and family would use the same messenger. Facebook, Google, Whatsapp - pick one!

The person I communicate with most uses text because she has a dumb phone. I can count on her checking FB once every few days and email once a week - maybe. And she lives on another continent so it costs me. But I can afford it so first world problem I guess.

Oh and I hate not having a real keyboard too so I use a Chrome add-on that allows me to read and respond to texts via my PC (MightyText - there are others).

On topic: I didn't find that section unbelievable at all. I just re-read it and he phones her on the office line to check she's actually at work (which is why she hangs up), so an email - presumably work email - makes sense. It's another form of passive-aggressive communication.

I'm going to be honest, I was really surprised with the texting/email habits in this thread. I thought that was the least believable part of the book,† but I guess I just wrongly assumed that most people 20-40 today communicate the way people my age* (mid 20's) do-- text, using near complete, unabreviated phrases, unless they do not have unlimited texting, in which case a messaging service (like facebook messenger, whatsapp, all that good stuff mentioned above) is used, with email being reserved purely for professional matters.

But I can see that was really myopic of me.
*Really, the way people my age, that I know, that happen to live on the east coast, that happen to own smart phones, do. So yeah. Very myopic.
†I still think, outside of this email exchange, the characters in general don't talk or act like human beings, and that all major characters fit into stock roles. Which, to be fair to this novel, is true of a lot of "literary" fiction on the market today.

Doesn't everyone, everywhere chose to use different means of communications in different ways? Why chose one way and go "no-one communicates that way"?

My 13 year old daughter (who was born in the mid-00s) communicates with texts *just like that*. I, who was born in the late 60's write texts like that... and carry on conversations in email. Sometimes I start with email and swap to chat - because I need something more immediate. Maybe I use iMessage because the particular person has an iPhone, and I'm on my Macbook... whatever works man