Victorians! discussion

This section comprises the following chapters:

Miss Gwilt's Diary (1/3),
Love and Law,
A Scandal at the Station,
An Old Man's Heart,
Miss Gwilt's Diary (2/3)

Here, we really get to know Lydia Gwilt as she lets us into her private thoughts via her diary. I'm posting in a bit of a rush, so please make a start with comments and I'll add some thoughts later on today.

I love the diary entries. Collins did such a great job of writing in her voice! And They do let us into her private thoughts and plans, which adds an interesting twist to the action. I wondered if there would be aspects of the story which were hidden because we only have her point of view. For example, Would Midwinter really be so malleable?

This has been a truly delightful read!

"Am I mad? Yes; all people who are as miserable as I am are mad. I must go to the window and get some air. Shall I jump out? No; it disfigured one so, and the coroner's inquest lets so many people see it." Guilt Diary 1/3

What incredible character development. Lydia is like a gyroscope. She spins on an axis balanced between extreme clarity of action and consequence and total madness. Collins gives the reader at once a character who is sensuous, sly and insane.

In her manic quest Lydia will spare no one. Certainly, Miss Milroy, Allan Armadale and Mr. Bashwood will offer no resistance. It seems only Midwinter could possibly be her match. Her plans of marriage, and then her assuming a roll, to be deceitful, seem as simple to her as Allan Armadale's view of the world is simple.

Miss Gwilt's Diary 2/3 begins with precision. Place, a specific place, a date, a time. This chapter gives the reader a series of specific times and places, and thus a specific map and record of Lydia's mind and her march towards her marriage and the continuation of her master plan. When Collins used time before, in the form of Major Milroy's clock, time was disjointed, inaccurate, somewhat dysfunctional. The contrast of how time is portrayed gives further energy and apprehension when we realize that time is now in the hands of Lydia.

The urgency of time was also evident in Miss Gwilt's Diary 1/3. Collins used repetition to create a feeling of urgency through the pounding repetitious phrases such as "I hate him" (5x ) "how can I" (4x) "Why can't I" (2x) and "I shall sink" (2x). Such repetition pushes the story forward and, at the same time, reveals the manic property of Lydia's mind.

Again, I'm impressed with Collins's writing style.

Peter wrote: "Miss Gwilt's Diary 2/3 begins with precision. Place, a specific place, a date, a time. This chapter gives the reader a series of specific times and places, and thus a specific map and record of L..."

I loved the diaries too. So fevered, overwrought. She can't sleep and is getting more and more desparate. And borderline insane.
Woo hoo, great stuff. the whole time I read the diaries, I kept thinking of a Victorian poem we read in high school called The Laboratory. http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-la...

"Sensuous, sly and insane" - Peter's beautifully alliterative and snaky description of Lydia Gwilt as seen through her personal diary. Does anyone feel she has any redeeming features? Or any hope of redemption? It appears that her love of Midwinter could prove to be her salvation, as long as the sly side doesn't get the better of her. Do we want her to be redeemed?

Redemption for Lydia? Yes. That would be lovely. She's had a pretty rough time of it. It would be nice to think that she has it in her to give up her devious plans but I don't really see that happening. She's created a whole saga of imagined slights to make demons of the people in her way. Sooo... It's obvious her diary tells the story from her perspective. I'm just wondering what else is colored by her POV. Is Midwinter really as enamored as she portrays him. (Okay. I really want him to be the hero of this thing.) ;-)

Diane wrote: "Peter wrote: "Miss Gwilt's Diary 2/3 begins with precision. Place, a specific place, a date, a time. This chapter gives the reader a series of specific times and places, and thus a specific map a..."

Diane

Thank you for the link to the Browning poem. I was unfamiliar with it and found it fascinating to read. The poem does fit well with the feel and energy of Lydia.

Peter wrote: "When Collins used time before, in the form of Major Milroy's clock, time was disjointed, inaccurate, somewhat dysfunctional. The contrast of how time is portrayed gives further energy and apprehension when we realize that time is now in the hands of Lydia."

That's a great comparison - well spotted! The Milroy-Allan faction certainly stand little chance against the sharp and calculating Gwilt. Even Mrs Milroy is only really taking pot shots in the dark. The Milroys are bluster and fluff but no substance. Lydia has her drama queen moments, but she keeps them to herself, reins them in and waits for the right moment before she acts.

Pip wrote: "Lydia has her drama queen moments, but she keeps them to herself, reins them in and waits for the right moment before she acts.">
She sounds quite the spider.

Diane wrote: "She sounds quite the spider."

She really is; a great, red spider sitting at the centre of her web. She fairly owns every twist and turn of this convoluted novel, having been present at every stage from the events in Madeira through her presence at the deaths of the intermediate heirs to Thorpe Ambrose, to the plot to become Armadale's widow - and everywhere in between.

We've also had her compared to a cat, a tigress (by Pedgrift Senior) and to a snake (see Peter's comments previously). Here's one I think we might have missed, as she describes Mr Bashwood to Mother Oldershaw:

"He turned all manner of colors, and stood trembling and staring at me, as if there was something perfectly frightful in my face. I felt quite startled for the moment, for, of all the ways in which men have looked at me, no man ever looked at me in that way before. Did you ever see the boa constrictor fed at the Zoological Gardens? They put a live rabbit into his cage, and there is a moment when the two creatures look at each other. I declare Mr. Bashwood reminded me of the rabbit."

And the implication is, of course, that Lydia is the boa constrictor.

Before the publication of any of his major works, Collins was enrolled as a law student at Lincoln's Inn but was soon put off - among other things, by having to wade through "Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England". This is the same book which Allan pores over with Neelie in the romantic-farce chapter "Love and the Law".

""Plenty more," rejoined Allan; "all in hieroglyphics. Look here: 'Marriage Acts, 4 Geo. IV., c. 76, and 6 and 7 Will. IV., c. 85 (q).' Blackstone's intellect seems to be wandering here. Shall we take another skip, and see if he picks himself up again on the next page?"

What is more, the very case Armadale and Neelie are looking into is taken from Collins' own life when he attempted to help a friend's brother marry a much younger lady. From the Ackroyd biography p34:

"...Collins, hoping to ease the path of true love, opened his law books. He discovered that parental consent was required before a marriage could take place; nevertheless a false declaration did not impair the validity of the marriage. It simply rendered it illegal, leaving Ned Ward [the friend's brother in question] open to a period imprisonment"

There is no mention of him having his hair cut off, by Act of Parliament, close to his head however.

Pip wrote: "Before the publication of any of his major works, Collins was enrolled as a law student at Lincoln's Inn but was soon put off - among other things, by having to wade through "Blackstone's Commentar..."

These connections make the novels come alive.

Just finished this section... Love how complex of a character Lydia is turning out to be, and also loved that ridiculous scene of Alan and Miss Milroy pouring over the law book... What "passion" ;)

Dee wrote: "...and also loved that ridiculous scene of Alan and Miss Milroy pouring over the law book... What "passion" ;)"

When I read that my first thought was how like teenagers they seemed and then realized that Miss Milroy is a teen and Armadale, well he has the maturity of a teen.

Well I certainly am taking forever on this book! But I am enjoying it.
I am finding it fascinating reading it from Lydia's POV. However, I wish it would also come now and then from Midwinter's POV! He is probably my favorite character, so I'm possibly a bit biased here ;)
I hope Midwinter finds happiness, though I can't honestly say I hope he finds happiness with Lydia....Collin's has done a marvelous job of making her a wonderfully maddening villian!
I too thought the love between Miss Milroy and Armadale was that of teenagers, almost like puppy love. I would like to see them happy together, but I'd also like to see more maturity on both sides.
I found it interesting that Collins had actually studied the law book with the marriage laws, and how that resembled a real life story. Thanks for posting that.

Rachel wrote: "Well I certainly am taking forever on this book! But I am enjoying it.
I am finding it fascinating reading it from Lydia's POV. However, I wish it would also come now and then from Midwinter's POV..."

I understand you Rachel. As much as I enjoyed getting to see seveeral of the events in the story from Lydia’s perspective, if there was anyone else’s opinion I was curious about, that was definitely Midwinter’s.

I think most of us are Team Midwinter. :-D He's a really great character. Lydia, too, but in a different way. This was so much fun to read.

Lol team midwinter ;) it was fun to read!!! Im so glad it was picked. I wish there was a miniseries or movie adaption. It's a fantastic story, but I like to visualize things as well.

Rachel wrote: "Lol team midwinter ;) it was fun to read!!! Im so glad it was picked. I wish there was a miniseries or movie adaption. It's a fantastic story, but I like to visualize things as well."

Yes, it seems strange that Collins adaptations are few and far between, given the thrilling plots and fabulous characters he created. As we have commented throughout the read, too, many of his descriptions are almost cinematographic so the likes of Andrew Davies would have very little to do!!

Of the adaptations I have seen, I wasn't overwhelmed by either of the WIWs and the Basil adaptation with Christian Slater was awful.... But I do remember really enjoying a Moonstone series (BBC I think) several years ago.

Rut wrote: "Rachel wrote: "Well I certainly am taking forever on this book! But I am enjoying it.
I am finding it fascinating reading it from Lydia's POV. However, I wish it would also come now and then from ..."

I think that adds to his mystery and his "different-ness"; he is a tricky character to pin down, and Collins achieves this largely through having us only see him from different characters' perspectives, or from the omniscient narrator's point of view.

Yes Midwinter certainly is a mysterious character! It is interesting of all the main characters that he is the only one we don't hear from directly, though (I believe) every other character we read from their POV mentions him frequently!
Thanks for the insight on the Moonstone series! I've been hoping to find an enjoyable BBC series and I've yet to see that.

I forgot to mention, about Midwinter's mysteriousness. He almost reminded me of a sort of Heathcliffe. His vagabond lifestyle, being a loner, growing up without real family, and being rejected as an adult. obviously none of that to the extreme of Heathcliff.
I had read the comments in the next section about some Gothic settings, and it reminded me of a few similarities of Heathcliffe and Midwinter.