Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

You don't have to read this but I'm going to vent and this is the only place I feel I can do it because I think some of you or even all of you know what I'm going through. I'm just frustrated with this whole "marketing-your-own-stupid-book" thing! You see all these suggestions - try this try that. Try it and...nothing. Look into book bloggers. OK, well, there are millions of them! You find a nice long list to go through and some of them are inactive, sometimes for years, and some are just gone completely. The ones that are still there have these policies that might as well say "you don't have a real publisher so get lost". Book contests - hey give us your $10, $25, $30, $50 that no struggling author really has and we'll stick you in this contest with hundreds of other entries. On top of all that, I guess I'm just not tech savvy enough to understand all the crap people suggest anyway. I don't understand blogging. I think it's kind of dumb personally. I definitely don't understand blog tours. And dadgum, who has time to sit and read the ramblings of somebody else all day long anyway? Days like this I just want to chuck the stupid computer across the room and say "forget it!"

I feel your pain, Heidi... lol. Sorry, not laughing at you; rather with a complete sense of sympathy and personal understanding of where you're coming from.

I've been doing this for almost three years. I've done everything you have, and then some. My success? Moderate at best.

You've got three novels out there, with some good reviews and that's admirable. It would be a shame to chuck it all now, wouldn't it?

I'll be happy to give you some pointers on simplifying your issues; essentially, how I've learned to cope with social media and marketing in general. But, not in this open forum. Send me a PM if interested... ;o)

By the way, I used to have a shirt very, very similar to that in your profile pic. I wore it on stage all across Europe back in the 90's... ;o).

I'm glad I'm not the only one who deosn't understand blog tours. I don't understand most of those things you talk about. I can surely sympathize.

I feel for you too, Heidi, you are totally not alone! My difference is I have a publisher, but I still have to haul my sorry ass around shoving my books at people (most of who have never heard of me, and don't mind telling me so!). It's pretty much the same for all of us, trad published, indie, self-pubbed - we're all chasing sales while the buying public is tightening their belts. The one good thing is that there is no limited market for books (people are far more likely to buy several at a go, rather than just one), so we can all support each other, rather than being in competition (it's not like the car market after all, is it?) Keep your chin up, your head held high (your are a published author! How many people would kill to be able to say that?) and keep going. One good review, one fan letter, and you'll be able to laugh at your message above...

I always thought once people read your book, left good reviews and told their friends that it would spread by word of mouth. Not really working out that way. I had a publishing offer but turned it down so I'm glad my cut of almost nothing is bigger than it would have been. :)

And you KNOW I'm a TechnoKlutz Heidi, so my understanding is less than yours. Hang on in there girl. You have a good product. I read about a couple of business men who had an idea. They determined to knock on 5 doors every day. At first they had no interest, but after a few years - BAM! Suddenly it took off and they had real success. Keep on keeping on. Do book signings in libraries, tea shops, every where you can get invited to. At first not many people will show, but you are getting your name out there. That's the name of the game. Start visiting your local libraries. Give them a free book, and ask if they would like you to do a reading/signing. Give talks. Ask your local tea rooms if they would be interested in hosting a free reading, as a boost for their business. Don't give up. I've read your books. You can make it. Eventually people will be asking you to do book signings. NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER GIVE UP!

As someone who's been around the tech block once or twice, maybe I can explain blogging at least. It's about connecting with readers. I live in a small city in the middle of cornfields. When I look out my back door, I see corn. There are approximately 20 people within 50 square miles of where I live who *might* be interested in the type of fantasy/romance story I've written.

A blog is a way of finding the niche, the community of readers who will *click* with your story. If you write detective stories, blog about forensics and true crime stories. The key is knowing who your readers are and what they care about, and blogging about it. My readers are geeky girls, so I write about stuff they might find interesting. If I write about things that audience is interested in, they find me, and then they discover my book. My likelihood of success is higher than if I pitched my book to a wider, more generic audience.

The other thing about blogging is that it takes time and consistency to build up an audience. I've been doing it very imperfectly for about 3 months now, and have a small following. I have another blog I've been writing for a few years now with a much larger following. It's about being part of a community that is not constrained by geography.

Hope this helps!

The idea about blogging is to engage the reader,
. They have a million choices out there. Try coming up with silly things that are fun? Run contests and offer a digital copy of one of your books. But the whole idea is to make it fun for the reader. And you can always boost your posts on Facebook when you have something to promote.
I am just discovering all this stuff too. It also really helps to get involved with writers groups like the Indie Authors group on Yahoo. Because there are the people who are going through what you are doing. Writing may be a solitary pursuit....but you as a writer don't have to be.

Heidi, I, too, feel your pain. I published my book back in April. I have sold c. 150 copies, but of those, 116 have been in person. Having a full-time job makes that difficult as it can be time consuming. I have done author discussion nights at the local library, went on the local cable station, participated in a book signing, an arts and crafts show and did a book launch. Those things each generated a decent amount of sales and, cumulatively, have turned into reasonable total sales.

Now here is what hasn't worked (yet). I blog on GR and did a GR give away. As each person signed up, I sent them a message thanking them and suggesting that if they didn't win that they consider purchasing the book anyway. Many who responded told me they only entered giveaways or waited for free books through amazon. One even asked that I send her a copy anyway if she didn't win. The result? 1 sale, no reviews from those who won. I have used twitter and fallen into that navel-gazing world. I won't even get into the frustration I find with that. I have a FB page and have had many visitors but still haven't seen any tangible results as far as sales go. So, as you can see, I have tried everything that has been suggested and have yet to reap any sizeable reward. So, in the end I'm not going to tell you what you should do to generate more exposure of your book.

But, here's the thing. I read this analogy of book selling as related to the bonzi tree. The reader's digest version is that it takes about 5 years of nurturing. The bonzi tree may grow a couple of inches for the first 4 years. Then in the fifth year it will explode, growing several feet. Unfortunately most people will give up on it prior to the fifth year. A novel can be like that as well. Just keep doing all the things that get your book in front of people and the rewards will follow. Obviously there is no way of guaranteeing success, but there's one way of guaranteeing failure. Best of luck.

Not to further depress you but I have several blogs, one of them is about a specific book and is fairly successful because I put a lot of work into it. This blog is used by students all over the world. It gets an average of 50,000 hits a month, 2,000 unique visitors, 1,500 Google searches. But those numbers are just a drop in the bucket of what you need.

And you know how many books I've sold? About a dozen! All that work and my profit doesn't even cover the cost of the website.

A response of 1-2% is considered average. 5% would be phenomenal. A one percent return means you need to connect with a hundred thousand people just to get a possible thousand sales. Think about that. Getting a thousand people to notice you doesn't mean they'll ever buy anything. At that point the subject and price are everything. I see so many new authors trying to sell books at $5.99 and even $12.99 and higher. Who is ever going to buy an unknown author at that price? You need to price at no more than $2.99 and $.99 is even better. Someone may actually take a chance at that price.

But the biggest point I want to make is that it seems to me that some authors are successful because of LUCK. You can write the greatest book ever but if no one can find it in the dump heap of a million other books it will never sell. Just like anything in life hard work goes a long way but at some point you have to have a little luck.

Don't give up and maybe you'll get lucky.

J.B. wrote: "I published my first book months ago. Like most new writers, I found myself jumping online every chance I could get to check the Amazon rankings. My transitional experience went something like this..."

That has produced a smile from me for the first time in ages regarding sales. Been fighting Smashwords as well. Then there is the blog for one of my new projects, cover art, cook dinner, walk dogs. Where is the keyboard under all the bills. You want how much for a professional edit???????

Feel like writing a new Bridget Jones instead of weight and calories report it will read

Monday - three words written and two sentences badly punctuated, sent a tweet to 20,000 people who won't read it. My Ad seen by 2,000,014 views clicks two purchases nil!

It's pretty much what the others have said. You spend more in the first few years than you earn. That is, if you haven't given up by then. Keep on keepin' on, girl.

Firstly can I just say that no one makes us write books at the point of a gun. If the writing experience is insufficient in itself then maybe that needs some meditation. Of course we write to be read rather than have manuscripts gather dust on a bookshelf or in the virtual world and being read represents some sort of validation of your art. But I always stress this in any interview I do when asked to give advice, you really have to probe deep inside yourself as to what it means to you to be a writer, what it feeds emotionally, psychologically and intellectually. If you come up with a set of answers to these questions, I believe it will stand you in very good stead for the vagaries of book-selling and your ambitions will be proportionate and realistic when held up against the reality of the book market.

I'm certainly tired of checking the Amazon rankings! I've been at this for a year now, got a good pile of reviews but it isn't translating into sales. I've tried, and won't try again, spending money on advertising and promoting my book in a banner at the top or side of a website. It simply doesn't work. I've read BookBub works, but I'm still trying to get accepted for it.

For a while I was so busy marketing and trying to make a sale, I forgot what made me happy: writing. The last few months I've been focusing on writing and after I've hit my target for the day of 3000 words, I'll then browse Goodreads or the internet to market for half an hour, until my brain goes dead for the day. Writing makes me happy - so that's what I'm going to stick to.

Most social media reaches out to people already in your networks. Writers gravitate towards other writers. The trick is somehow to reach across to complete strangers (who are readers) and who haven't heard of either you or your book. Even Amazon admit such 'discoverability' is a huge problem for them. The vast majority of the book buying population just don't know you or I exist as authors.

"I'm an artiste daaaarling, I couldn't possibly grubby the hands that hold an ink quill with promotional work".... well one of the things about the self-publishing revolution and even middle-list authors with publishing deals as someone pointed out on this thread, is that no-one else will do it for you. So it's down to us.

And despite me entering with the only slightly exaggerated attitude in inverted commas, I've found that not only do I enjoy certain aspects of marketing, but that it directly feeds back into my creative writing.

If you're interested, I blogged about it here http://sulcicollective.blogspot.co.uk...

At the end of the day, the question is, as many have stated, do you write to make money or because you want to write. The odds are against you earning a living off of writing. I always said if my books sold to family and friends plus one, I'd be happy. I surpassed that yet wasn't satisfied because I lost focus of why I wrote my novel. So now I'm back to writing my second novel, have been asked by two libraries to speak at writer's forums and I post around the interweb. Because I refocused on the writing I am far less concerned about the sales of my novel. I still talk about it to people I meet but am not anxious to make sales. Funny enough, over the past week I have sold 10 copies as a result of just talking about it.

J.B. wrote: "Marc wrote: "not only do I enjoy certain aspects of marketing, but that it directly feeds back into my creative writing."

One thing that I do enjoy about marketing is creating my own book trailers..."

exactly. I have made over 20 vids and can honestly say not one has led to a single sale. But then if I didn't enjoy making them, I wouldn't do them would I?

I'm with you Heidi. I think most of us want to scream after a while.

J.B. wrote: "Anybody know a pilot willing to tow a banner cross-country, who'll work for a percentage of book sales? ;)"

AHAHAHAH well I LOVED your first post because after all, I think that is what every author does but this one is just MAGNIFICIENT!! LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To all of you, please don't feel dispondent. I love reading books from new Authors, it broadens my horizons as well as keeping the genre you choose to write in new and fresh.

I've read some if you that have posted here, and have to say my world is a better place for having done so. Please don't chuck the computer against the wall and give up, mourning black isn't really my colour.

Oh God. Don't look at your Amazon ranking. Just don't. It will only depress you until you suddenly hit it big, and then you'll be so happy with your sales figures that you still won't care about your ranking!

Instead just continue to write, get work out there, and find opportunities to promote. Send copies of your book to your local libraries. Promote at a book faire or convention. Nobody says you have to do online promotions, but they can help. I started blogging a little over a year ago, and now I have over 150 followers. Unlike the poster above, my work in promotions has helped me to sell about 75 copies of my books. So not great, no, but they did pay for the cover of my next book to be coming out in 2014.

Many have said it, and I'll repeat it. This is not a sprint or a race. It's a business, and it takes time to grow. Keep on swimming!

Cate wrote: "To all of you, please don't feel dispondent. I love reading books from new Authors, it broadens my horizons as well as keeping the genre you choose to write in new and fresh.

I've read some if yo..."

Oh, oh...read mine, read mine...lol

D.L. after reading the synopsis I may just do that. Would you like a review too?

For those of you interested in more ideas or debates,there's a discussion at Linked in on this very topic.

http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?vie...

J.B. wrote: "I published my first book months ago. Like most new writers, I found myself jumping online every chance I could get to check the Amazon rankings. My transitional experience went something like this..."

Excellent post, J.B. You really oughta be a writer... give it go, man; what do you have to lose? lol.

I am going to come over there and spank you all! You knew darn well what you signed up for when you decided to write...but in case you forgot:

The Authenticity of Writing

There are few career choices as authentic as that of a writer. It requires a passion that is fueled almost entirely from one’s own internal motivation. In the early years, that period when development occurs, when style emerges, when genre is chosen, the writer operates with little feedback and with almost no social validation. Writing is not a career that appears to have substance to the non-writer. Parents do not often rally behind their child’s desire to be the next Ernest Hemingway, Stephen King or J.K. Rowling. Perhaps some do from time to time, but not in the same way they might support other pursuits.

Consider a child who has a passion for helping others. They might select the field of medicine, or verbalize their intent to pursue social work. These passions are connected to areas that have specific training that lead to specific job titles. Even an aptitude for number counting can mean a respectable career in accounting or finance. Consider the natural athlete or musician. Regardless of the statistics against fame, parents will supply the instruments, the lessons, the rehearsal, the recitals and spend countless weekends at youth sporting events. The child who wishes to be a fiction writer however is often coached to select some other way to “make a living.” They are guided, with the best intentions, to find a more legitimate source of income for their writing passion such as journalism or teaching. I’ve seen children spend thirteen years playing a sport for thirty hours a week in pursuit of a passion for sports, while committed and gleeful parents watch at full attention . I’ve seen children labor over homework, science books and resume building for a future place in Med School while pushed, supported and perhaps even pursued by their parents throughout the journey. A child with a love for fiction writing has few trophies for validation and receives only slightly weary nods to support their dreams.

Yet those with this passion to tell a story seldom lose that desire.

Writing is authentic. It requires a form of perfection before we experience the cheering crowds and at times it requires public validation before parental pride. It’s authentic because regardless of support or accolades the writer continues to write in his journal and she continues to pen her little fabricated worlds. Writers continue their search for the perfect combination of words to express the life themes they see and wish to examine and to have others examine. A new baseball player can feel the social validation each time they get in the batter’s box, each time their glove finds the ball, each time they touch a base. The would-be doctor can sense her future with each A on a science exam and each time her parents proudly announce - “yes, she is very smart and plans to attend Med School.” The would-be writer has fewer places for validation. An English assignment here and there, perhaps a writing contest where only one or two people will ever know what the “readers” thought of their labor of love. But writing comes from an authentic place - the absence of these things seldom extinguishes the desire to tell the story.

There is no Hollywood or Bollywood for the would-be novelist. No place to travel where we can be surrounded by others working on this particular dream. No opportunity to “try out” for a best-seller. The place the writer returns to is the same place where the passion began - we return to our imagination. Inside our minds and hearts with that creative voice - our internal muse - who keeps us company, who inspires, who urges us to write again and again.

Perhaps now though there is a place for us. Perhaps we have our own - be it virtual - Hollywood. Perhaps that place is right here in the blog-a-sphere. A community of like minded folks reaching others solely through the written word. A place to follow and be followed. A place for try-outs, for ideas, for suggestions. A place less focused on “making money” and more focused on the art of what we so passionately pursue. Here there may not be the roar of the crowd when we hit a home run. Proud families may not hoist us upon their shoulders for our truthful words and there are no roses for our brilliant performances. Here there is only the silent validation of a “like” button. Here there is only the satisfaction of a report card that reads, “Congratulations X number of people are following your words.” It may not be the same as an acceptance letter to Med school or a million dollar Major League contract. It may not be a role in an upcoming blockbuster - but for the writer, it is more than they have had and it is enough to make the time worth while.

Writing is an authentic career. It comes from someplace deep within, someplace honest, someplace where the truths of the real world are examined in journeys through fictitious ones. The writer has their own trophies of the pursuit. There are no “game” balls here and no shiny golden statues. Instead we have stacks of old notebooks and journals, we have expended pens, and our cascade of Word files. Those things are enough. They create their own type of pride. They are a testament to our improvement and to our tenacity.
Writing is an authentic career. The passion exists even when the source cannot be located. It is knowing that we will always speak in the writer’s voice even when we believe that no one is listening.

Cate wrote: "D.L. after reading the synopsis I may just do that. Would you like a review too?"

Sure, if you are up for it.

My stars on Amazon are decent to not terrible, the problem is they're all short stories I got up there at the moment. I can fully understand being hesitant to test a new author, especially if you buy a likely-looking story and realize it's less than ten pages long. I do, however, have a spike in sales and reviews when I do a KDP select, provided I let my stories have a bit of breathing room in-between.

Putting them all up for sale at once, that was kind of fun, actually. :P I was surprised which ones did the most, you know?

My husband always says "its not about how many sales you have.' As frustrated as I was last night after I started this thread I asked him what it IS all about. He said "a sense of accomplishment and enjoyment." Honestly that's how I came into this thing. I did it because I liked doing it. Still do. I knew I'd never be a j.k. rowling but the idea of maybe making a little money was nice. I've. Been a stay at home mom for 6 years and was hoping to contribute to our finances a little. I just cant justify the fees that some site or bloggers or whatever charge. So without spending money it seems I'm doomed.
I have 3 books out now. The first did really well in that a lot of family & friends bought it and I managed to convince a few to write reviews. The second 2 books have hardly any sales and those who have read them wont review. So what's my take supposed to be? I must really stink! Of course people tell me the books are great but honestly I seriously doubt they'd tell me otherwise!

Heidi have you thought about redesigning your covers? Sometimes a fresh look can boost sales. Also consider changing your keywords, so your books appear in more search results and have a look at your browse categories.

as I suggested, the trick is to reach those strangers who've never heard of you.

Also I'm afraid readers owe us writers nothing. They have already done more than enough buying and reading our book. If they want to continue to engage further by leaving a review or tweeting about your book, that is an extra. I blogged on this, cos many writers disagree with this point of view: http://sulcicollective.blogspot.co.uk...

@marc- Marc it's a good article and you are absolutely correct

Heidi...try boosting posts on Facebook...my friend says it helps her.
But your frustration is clearly no visibility. People have to see your book....out of all the stuff out there! Join blog hops....join writing groups or band together with some like minded authors and create a website or fan page on Facebook and talk about things that will engage the readers and give you visibility.
Honest and true Heidi...it isn't a race. It takes time. I'm trying and hoping my publishing will help fund my retirement so I'm not stuck eating dog food in a few years! And I will try everything!

Raymond wrote: "@marc- Marc it's a good article and you are absolutely correct"

thank you, but it's a subject that definitely divides opinion

Here's a site with a list of places to promote your books for free.

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/...


Here's another site that offers 48 plus places to promote your book during your KDP select free days plus training to authors on how to take advantage of free promotion days.

http://www.trainingauthors.com/47-pla...

Authors who are offering a free book to series or as a sample of their writing can upload their book at this site:

https://www.free-ebooks.net/register-oto

Probably the best strategy is to read over and investigate this information and then map out some kind of plan for effectively using it.

If you need book covers or updates and don't have much money, you can easily educate yourself through YouTube training on how to use free software like Gimp and Paint and PaintNet and search for royalty free images to create your own cover. Also, you can go to www.fiverr.com and do a search for "create e-book covers" and take a look at the kinds of covers people from all over the world are willing to create using software and royalty-free images, for just five dollars.

Arabella wrote: "Heidi...try boosting posts on Facebook...my friend says it helps her.
But your frustration is clearly no visibility. People have to see your book....out of all the stuff out there! Join blog hops....."

So Arabella,
What are the links to your books? Have you come across any methods that are bringing you success?

Heidi, believe me I would've told you!

Yeah...I should put up and shut up here.
I have done a couple of blog tours...am doing one in October, one in November and one in January( remember in January people will have gotten nooks and Kindles for the holidays).
I have joined the indieauthor loop on yahoo...a fount of GREAT info, and have just recently joined a group of local authors and we have a book signing in a few weeks.

Have I sold a lot of books? I published my first book July 13, The Elf Lord's Revenge...Since then I have sold about 37 books? My ranking sucks on Amazon. I am about to release a novella I Swear My Roommate is A Vampire hope to get this out by the end of the month. And I will promote it on face book and the blogs I mentioned. I remain hopeful.

Heidi - Your husband is exactly right!! I write because I LOVE it - I would write even if no one else ever read anything I write (although I admit it would kill me not to share!). I don't know if what I am about to tell you will be encouraging or discouraging to you, but I finished my first three books in 2007. For five years I went to shows and did book signings and advertised and read marketing books and lost money year after year after year. For FIVE years! And I kept writing, too. I begged for reviews. I took every little opportunity that came my way. I went to a writer's conference, etc., etc., etc. I never gave up. Last year (February, 2012), things finally took off and made it all worthwhile from a financial standpoint, but it would have been worth it from a personal standpoint, even if it hadn't taken off because I love writing and sharing my writing. If you love writing and you love what you are writing, you need to keep doing it. Marketing is indeed the worst part of it all, but don't give up!! God has used my writing to bless me in so many unexpected ways - not the least of which is that He has brought many people like you into my life. He has also used it to bring me closer to Him, which is the best and most valuable part of it all! Many blessings!

I understand the frustration Heidi. I haven't promoted my book much lately due to computer problems but It means I should be going out and doing stuff to help. I try and not let me lacking numbers get me down and try to keep being positive. I recieved my first royalties cash in today so that gives me a good boost of confidence to keep going and doing what I can.

Its all just a matter of time and being patient Heidi. I'm sure the positive things will look up.

What imaginations we must have if we can convince ourselves that we should be successful because we wrote a story.

Thanks everybody. I'm trying to snap myself out of this funk. I know everything I'm going through is typical, and I know I'm not the only one. It's just that mother hen instinct, you know. If somebody was to ignore one of my kids, I'd be ticked and very protective. Well, same thing here. It wasn't quite as painful, but these books are like my babies too - they came from me! does that make sense? I just want them to get noticed. Anyway, thanks for all the kind words and encouragement.

Raymond wrote: "There is no Hollywood or Bollywood for the would-be novelist. No place to travel where we can be surrounded by others working on this particular dream. No opportunity to “try out” for a best-seller. The place the writer returns to is the same place where the passion began - we return to our imagination....muse - who keeps us company, who inspires, who urges us to write again and again."

That was beautiful, Raymond. Your whole piece was great, but that part in particular...very cool! It hit the chord in the soul-strings. I printed and taped it above my computer.
Wendy Joyce

Marc wrote: "Firstly can I just say that no one makes us write books at the point of a gun. If the writing experience is insufficient in itself then maybe that needs some meditation. Of course we write to be re..."

Right on, Marc! I have a similar response when asked the same question: "“… writing is an art and your work is your very own creation; so at a certain point, when you’re confident you have enough to sustain you, I would say follow your creative instincts. If ignoring what you’ve been told serves you better, then do so. That could define your uniqueness. ”

And that uniqueness may. one day, resonate with someone. But something does have to be done to let people know you're out there. Quite possibly, of course, fame may follow posthumously. C'est dommage mais c'est la vie!

Thanks for starting this discussion, Heidi. I, too, have been getting discouraged by not knowing where to turn. My book has had some sales, received some 5-star reviews, and has won a bronze award, but the dots aren't yet connecting. However, D.L.'s bonzi tree writing, above, is enouraging.

The best advice I've ever gotten....
Write a new book.

Every time I publish a new book I get more readers, and more sales of the old books. I figure if I eventually have 40+ books out I will not have to market at all.

Crissy wrote: "The best advice I've ever gotten....
Write a new book.

Every time I publish a new book I get more readers, and more sales of the old books. I figure if I eventually have 40+ books out I will not h..."

Now that's a nice positive post to read, as I am about to publish another book. Now I need to find time in between marketing to write the next 35! Lol! Seriously though, that's very encouraging.

My book, In the Beginning was put on Ereader News Today list for Bargain books around three o'clock. This morning I woke to find that I sold 343 books since then. I am now on Amazon's Best Seller list! Now that's a marketing tool that works with little or no effort!

Jonathan wrote: "I share your frustrations, Heidi. I already wrote the book--now I have to promote the damned thing, too? Singlehandedly? To say that the table is tilted is to understate the problem."

I can't stress this enough, if people want to be an author, they need to go into it with eyes wide open. You need to know what it is likely to take and other than luck which we all need, there is a ton of slog to put in after you've typed the final period/full stop.