Book Nook Cafe discussion

Alias said: "Maybe it was trachoma, but by the time of the PB they didn't want to go back and find out, so just omitted it. "

Yeah, and there may be the journalistic problem that Egan is obviously quoting Gustav (even if there are no quote marks, he has little way of having gotten this information from another source.) If Gustav said it wrong, that would make the correction more difficult. Easier to just take it out. I read over that paragraph without having a thought about why Gustav was quarantined.

Jan O'Cat

I just got this book yesterday from an inter-library loan and hope to catch up with you folks.

Lynne in PA/Lineepinee wrote: "I just got this book yesterday from an inter-library loan and hope to catch up with you folks."

It is an interesting book Lynne. I thought I understood that period of time in the west, but I had no idea just how bad it was. I can't imagine drifts of dust, infestations of insects, and the enormity of the health problems. I won't ever forget what I'm learning. I cannot imagine how those people survived.

Regarding the mass rabbit killings that the people joined in on, how did the rabbits thrive while other animals died of asphyxiation and starvation?

I don't know, but in about 1912 or so when my grandmother lived in the scablands of eastern Washington state they had jackrabbit roundups that lasted 2-3 days, and were big social events. Evidently they don't need much to eat. I'll post a photo.

Sherry said: "Evidently they don't need much to eat."

My guess is that being the notorious fast-breeders that they are, rabbits replaced themselves very rapidly.

I found reading about the rabbit round-ups very disturbing. I understand that it was necessary, but I think I could've done with reading about it once and it's become a theme. I understand also why all of the meat couldn't be used, but it seems such a waste.

Jan O'Cat

JAN: I understand also why all of the meat couldn't be used, but it seems such a waste.
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It seemed that the people were really venting their frustration out on the rabbits and went over the top. I can't see that rabbits were really doing much harm. There were no crops anyway. And if you caught them in reasonable numbers, they were a food source. But to kill 6000+ seems sick. I cringed when they mentioned that some were not totally killed, and you could hear their cries into the night. The whole situation is a nightmare.

I appreciate the things I am learning about the Dust Bowl, but I am starting to feel buried and numb by the weight of the relentless misery page after page. I'm glad I am almost done.

Chapter 17- I was surprised to read the vile quote by H. L. Mencken. Wiki notes his hatred of FDR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mencken

chapter 19 - liked reading the journal. It was poignant. In just a few stark sentences he conveyed the misery and the sense of hopelessness of the entire Dust Bowl.

The movie mentioned in this chapter, The Plow that Broke the Plains is available on DVD. My library actually has it, so I requested it.

http://www.amazon.com/Broke-Plains-Gi...

Product Description
Pare Lorentz's The Plow that Broke the Plains (1936) and The River (1937) are landmark American documentary films. Aesthetically, they break new ground in seamlessly marrying pictorial imagery, symphonic music, and poetic free verse, all realized with supreme artistry. Ideologically, they indelibly encapsulate the strivings of Franklin Delano Roosevelt's `New Deal'. Virgil Thomson's scores for both films are among the most famous ever composed for the movies. Aaron Copland praised the music of The Plow for its `frankness and openness of feeling', calling it `fresher, more simple, and more personal' than the Hollywood norm. He called the music for The River `a lesson in how to treat Americana'. Special Features include: George Stoney on The Plow and The River * Stoney on The New Deal, The River, and Race * Charles Fussell on Virgil Thomson * Virgil Thomson on Virgil Thomson (audio only) * Original beginning and ending of The Plow * Option to view The Plow and The River with original sound track and narration


chapter 19, in my book the page with the wagon wheel in sand, he writes about Carl Rothstein's photo that caught father and son, face into the wind running for cover. He notes "It became one of the most significant images of the time." Did I miss this picture in the book? I don't see it in my book. Odd,that he would mention it, and not show it.

Anyway I found his photo's online.

http://www.weru.ksu.edu/new_weru/mult...

Alias said: I appreciate the things I am learning about the Dust Bowl, but I am starting to feel buried and numb by the weight of the relentless misery page after page. I'm glad I am almost done.


Alias, I hope I am able to finish this. When DH & my friend came upstairs Sunday after their guitar session downstairs, they asked me what I was reading, and I told them a book aobut the Dust Bowl & the Great Depression.........they both said, "Just what you need (not) WHY are you reading that? I explained I was reading with my BN friends. I had to give up for a while and start the new

Brimstone


it's his 3rd Western in this series. They made a movie out of the first one: Appaloosa

So I'll go back and read some more, but I'm likely to skip over bunny kiiling and screaming. :o( Not something I need to hear about.

Donna in Southern Maryland

Donna, I am up to page 288 and I think I like the later half of the book more then rest. I should finish up the book tonight. I think the diaries and reading about FDR have made things more interesting for me. I'm a big FDR fan. Also I guess the realization that I am coming to the end means that the drought and misery will soon be over. I'm at the point where they are trying to plant trees and various grasses as they implement FDR's plan to help heal the land that we put on life support.

It doesn't appear as if the author is going to go into the current situation with the Plains. I recall the NY Times did a big piece on the ghost towns of the Plains. It was a fascinating piece. And quite sad. I've never been to this part of the country, so I don't know what it is like today. I've only seen it flying over from NY to California. Now we have factory farming and small family farms seem to be a thing of the past. I am hoping he addresses this a bit at the end.

I finished up the book today. By the second half of the book I got more into it.

How is everyone else doing ?

I thought I would try to answer a few of the questions posited by Sherry.

Q&A contains spoilers !!

2. Is there any relevance in learning about the Dust Bowl for our time?
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Yes. It is how man's behavior can cause a catastrophe. Global warming comes to mind. Also in the epilogue Egan notes how we are drawing down the Ogallala aquifer to the point were it will dry up in 100 years. And the Texas Panhandle will dry up by next year ! Additionally, the millions of trees that FDR planted have been ripped out by farmers in the 1940's to plant again. It seems history will repeat itself. We seem to have learned little from the past.


3. Did you find anything surprising about the facts introduced in this book?
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I had no idea of the scope of the dust bowl. I didn't know the storms sometimes were 1000+ feet into the air. I also thought the main reason for the DB was drought. I didn't think about how man was a key factor in the event with his farming techniques. I also didn't think about how the invention of the plough made it all possible. And I didn't know tumbleweed wasn't native to the U.S.

6. Does Egan present information in a way that is interesting and insightful, and if so, how does he achieve this?
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At first I didn't care for the style of the book. I would have liked a more straightforward rendition with footnotes. By the second half I accepted the way he decided to tell the story. I realize telling the story through a few families brings the story to life and makes it more accessible. Though I don't know if the stories are 100% true especially all the quotes.

7-Which of these stories spoke to you most powerfully? Did reading about these people change your opinion of the Dust Bowl or the people who survived it?
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I thought Hartwells journal was powerful. It was sad how he just lost everything a little bit at a time. Not only the material things, but also being separated from his wife.

I also was touched when Uncle Dick took that $100 that he always saved and gave it to the passing cowboy and his family. He did this when he didn't have any money himself.

Alias said: "chapter 19 - liked reading the journal. It was poignant. In just a few stark sentences he conveyed the misery and the sense of hopelessness of the entire Dust Bowl. "

I almost couldn't read the diary entries of Don Hartwell. They were so full of unexpressed and then poignantly expressed pain. I'm very sorry that Egan didn't give us some kind of follow-up on the story of the Hartwells. (I hope that's not a spoiler!) Except for the note in the epilogue about a neighbor stopping Verna from burning her husband's diary, we wouldn't even know whether they ever got back together or not. I thought there was a clear indication in the text that they did NOT, but I must have misread it.

Jan O'Cat

Alias said: "I'm at the point where they are trying to plant trees and various grasses as they implement FDR's plan to help heal the land that we put on life support. "

Does anyone here know anything about farming? I was puzzled about what was said about contour plowing, one of Hugh Bennett's innovations. I always thought that contour plowing meant plowing around the natural land formations rather than right across them--which would seem a better way of preserving land forms. But Egan several times says something about contour farming "leaving furrows." I thought that ALL plowing left furrows. In fact I thought that's what plowing is--making furrows in which to plant seeds.

Speaking of seeds, I found it heartbreaking to read about the farmers and even the women who had gardens, investing in seed over and over again, only to have the crops fail every time. They put so much faith in having seed and then the climate would fail them.

Jan O'Cat

JanOMalleycat wrote: I'm very sorry that Egan didn't give us some kind of follow-up on the story of the Hartwells. (I hope that's not a spoiler!) Except for the note in the epilogue about a neighbor stopping Verna from burning her husband's diary, we wouldn't even know whether they ever got back together or not. I thought there was a clear indication in the text that they did NOT, but I must have misread it.
.."
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I was sorry their story wasn't followed up, too.

I thought they separated. It wasn't really clear.
They could still have been separated when he died and she may have just been the only one related to him to go over his things. Since so much was quoted from his jnl, having no follow-up was poor judgement on the author's part.

I found the statistics at the beginning of Chapter 20 stunning. "More than 850 million tons of topsoil had blown off the plains in the last year, nearly 8 tons of dirt for every resident of the United States."

The next sentence I find hard to believe: "In the Dust Bowl, farmers lost 480 tons per acre." That's 960,000 pounds of soil per acre (if my limited math skills are correct). I found myself trying to envision what a pound of soil looks like, but even if I could figure that out, 960,000 is way beyond my capacity to understand. An acre just isn't that big.

Some of the figures Egan gives about falling dust or even about the size of the dust dunes that collected in various places are amazing. It's impossible to fully conceive the enormity of the problem.

Jan O'Cat

Alias said: "At first I didn't care for the style of the book. I would have liked a more straightforward rendition with footnotes."

I'm inclined to give oral histories (and I read this as an offspring of an oral history with research interspersed in the personal stories) a broader margin in terms of scholarly expectations. Personal accounts of a historical event give a much more compelling story, but by their nature are inclined to small inaccuracies.

I did find troubling the evidence that the book had been sloppily edited in some respects. There was often mention of a "character" or an event which hadn't yet been formally introduced. I didn't take note of these as I read, but I remember noticing several. The one I remember (because it came close to the end of the book) was a passing mention of grasshoppers destroying crops, but the stories of the swarms of insects didn't come until a couple of chapters later. It seemed to me like someone had worked to intersperse the personal narratives with Egan's research-driven passages (presumably to keep interest alive) but hadn't taken enough care to make sure there weren't any references without antecedents.

I don't know much about the National Book Award. I'm assuming it's for high-interest books more than for excellence of writing or presentation. I liked this book. I thought it was a fascinating account. But the interest was all in the compelling subject matter, not in excellence of presentation.

Jan O'Cat

Alias asked: "He notes "It became one of the most significant images of the time." Did I miss this picture in the book? I don't see it in my book. Odd,that he would mention it, and not show it. "

Alias, I thought as I read it that it's such a famous image that he didn't feel the need to include it. I could immediately picture the exact picture he was citing.

For a moment I thought it might be a copyright issue, but the link you included certainly makes it seem that these pictures must be "public domain" or something similar. The site offers high definition images with no notes about permission to use or any of that.

Jan O'Cat

Jan:
Speaking of seeds, I found it heartbreaking to read about the farmers and even the women who had gardens, investing in seed over and over again, only to have the crops fail every time. They put so much faith in having seed and then the climate would fail them.
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Yes, that was heartbreaking. How they had the faith, and the strength since they were starving, to continue on is beyond me. But for me when the crops did start to grow at the end, and then the grasshoppers came and wiped out everything in minutes was just too much. It was painful to read. I cannot imagine what these people felt.

When I read about the constant choking dust, I actually felt claustrophobic. A stuffed up nose from a cold can make me feel panicky. There is no way I could have remained there and stayed sane.

Thank heaven for FDR. At least some of the people were able to move thanks to the $ they received from the govt. And his farm programs started to heal the land. The best book I read last year, The Defining Moment,

really gives one a clear sense of how close this country was to a precipice. And how fortunate we were to have FDR.

I'm glad you read the book, Jan. It's nice to have someone to discuss it with. I was watching your reading progress on your bookshelf. :) I like that feature. I don't know if I would use it for all my reads, but for a group read I found it helpful.

kate/Edukate12 wrote: "I started the book today too. Hope others will join in!"
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Kate, what is your avatar a picture of? Is it pasta with cheese on top? If so how could you ! :O You're killing me ! I don't think that is a approved food for us dieters. :)

How are you doing with the book? Any thoughts on it ?

Alias said: "They could still have been separated when he died and she may have just been the only one related to him to go over his things. Since so much was quoted from his jnl, having no follow-up was poor judgement on the author's part. "

In the Epilogue, when Egan tells the story of Hartwell's diary nearly being burned, he says that it went to the Nebraska Historical Society. It's just this moment occurred to me that Verna and Don Hartwell had no children, so Egan probably didn't interview anyone related to them. It's possible that all of his information about them came from the diary and public records. He may simply have not had any further information on them.

Sometimes history is like that. :-)

Jan O'Cat

I will say that this book has made me curious to travel to the Oklahoma Panhandle. I've driven through the Texas Panhandle many times--Amarillo, Lubbock, and points in between. I don't remember it as a particularly barren area; in fact I'd describe it as "plains." It's miles and miles of rolling grassland.

I believe the worst of the Dust Bowl was right in the area Egan focuses on--that corner where Texas, Oklahoma, Colorado, and Kansas meet. Does Egan make a point of this or is it information I've gotten elsewhere?

Anyway, I'm wondering if that area has also recovered. I've never been farther northwest in my state than perhaps 30-50 miles past Oklahoma City.

I've always heard it's a long and tedious drive to the Panhandle. Somewhere up there are salt flats from ancient seas and mesaland. Sounds like it could be desolate. Deborah, when you lived in Guymon did you feel a part of Oklahoma? I have some distant step-relatives who live there and they always seemed more oriented to Amarillo than Oklahoma.

I used to have a girlfriend whose grandmother lived in Liberal, Kansas. We always wanted to make a trip to visit her grandmother and then go on to nearby Holcomb, KS where the In Cold Blood murders took place. Then she got married, had a kid, and we never did it. But I sure thought about the deslation and isolation of Capote's setting when Egan mentioned Liberal. Kansas.

Jan of the Meandering Sensibility and Loose Connections

What did you think of the poem at the end of Hartwell's diary? It seemed to still have a thankful sentiment. That they were grateful for the love and happiness they had, even if the time was short and it ended tragically. That's pretty amazing considering what they went through. To be honest, I would have been bitter. Did you read it the same way?

We had a crystal moment
Snatched from the hands of time,
A golden, singing moment
Made for love and rhyme.

What if it shattered in our hands
As crystal moments must?
Better than earthen hours
changing to lifeless dust.

Alias said: " What did you think of the poem at the end of Hartwell's diary? It seemed to still have a thankful sentiment. That they were grateful for the love and happiness they had, even if the time was short and it ended tragically"

I read it more woefully than you did, but that's no doubt because I really struggled through the last section of Hartwell's diary. I kept waiting for some kind of redemption, but it just never came (not being fiction!).

The poem to me expresses the double tragedy of the Dust Bowl and also of the history of much of the settlement of the west. The people who came west were often looking for some release from poverty, ties to traditional culture, or ethnic or other restrictions. Often they endured unbelievable hardship on the journey west.

Initially each new settlement had "boom" elements--there would be success, a new social order, and even financial success if not wealth.

Then inevitably there would be bust. Lives would be lost to illness or violence. Financial booms would be restricted by cycles of nature or poor investments. Civilization would follow the pioneers and crowd them with the strictures they'd been trying to escape. I always think of Pa Ingalls who kept moving West as towns grew up around each of his homesteads.

The Dust Bowl was a bigger tragedy than most of the boom-and-bust cycles, but on the other hand it started with a greater boom. So many people got rich. Even the Bam Whites and Doc Dawsons who weren't necessarily looking to get rich at least had the brief illusion that they could establish a secure home.

So, I see on rereading the poem and your comments about it, that it does say that having that brief moment is better than having had only an "earthen" life. But what originally struck me was the devastating contrast of the crystalline, "golden, singing moment(s)" and the final "lifeless dust." To me, having had such a fine time makes the dusty finale all the sadder.

Jan O'Cat

Alias Reader wrote: "kate/Edukate12 wrote: "I started the book today too. Hope others will join in!"
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Kate, what is your avatar a picture of? Is it pasta with cheese on top? If so how could yo..."

The avatar is Cincinnati chili. : ) It is a classic in this area with two main chains that serve similar versions. Yup, it is spaghetti, chili and tons of cheese. You are also expected to order a cheese coney with the chili. I have this about once a year, but I love it. It's just way too heavy to indulge in with any regularity, though many do. You can order the basic 3-way version which is exactly what I descrbied, or you can order a 4-way or 5-way. One of those versions includes beans. Cincinnati chili is to this area what Buffalo wings are to Buffalo. : )

As for the book, I'm almost finished with it. I've learned a lot, and am still pondering much. I don't really understand much about static electricity, so reading that they drug chains behind the cars to help with that issue is hard for me to really understand. I am finding the book relentlessly sorrowful, and I suspect that's exactly the way life was during this period. To be honest, I'll be relieved when I finish so I can return to some fiction.

Jan:
Speaking of seeds, I found it heartbreaking to read about the farmers and even the women who had gardens, investing in seed over and over again, only to have the crops fail every time. They put so much faith in having seed and then the climate would fail them.
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I can imagine the hope and optimism associated with seeds for the first year or two. After that it is hard for me to imagine sticking with it. I'm one who always believes things will improve, but there comes a point where you have to realize that maybe they won't. I suppose they had little choice but to keep trying since they were finacially strapped, but I doubt I would have had the heart to keep going.

Kate said: " I don't really understand much about static electricity, so reading that they drug chains behind the cars to help with that issue is hard for me to really understand."

I remember in my childhood semi-trucks always had a chain dragging to discharge static electricity. In fact, it must still be done because a couple of years ago when we were at the end of a drought cycle and the wildfires were bad, people were asked to remove any dragging objects from their cars as the sparks could set fires along the highways.

I don't know any more about static electricity than you do, Kate. It forms in the air when the humidity is low and also with some weather phenomena. Friction exacerbates it. It has to do with charged ions and that kind of thing. I assume this is the same everywhere and I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

I'm assuming that the roiling air of a thunderstorm, but without the intervening humidity of rain, caused the huge static build-up in the dust storms.

I didn't know that static electricity was part of the Dust Bowl problems. It's hard to believe that the same phenomenon that gives you a zap when you drag your feet across the carpet could build to the point that it would kill plants and really jolt humans.

Is this a problem that's peculiar to the Southwest? It's something that I would have assumed is the same everywhere. In the winter we are warned that when filling our cars with gas, we need to touch the car somewhere upon getting out, before touching the gas pump. Static builds up from the friction while driving and discharging by touching the gas pump has caused explosions.

In the winter we get a zap every time we cross a carpet and then touch something. It really bothers my sensorily sensitive students. What feels like a little thwap to most is real pain to them.

Jan O'Cat

Kate said: "I can imagine the hope and optimism associated with seeds for the first year or two. After that it is hard for me to imagine sticking with it. I'm one who always believes things will improve, but there comes a point where you have to realize that maybe they won't. "

I think it's because these were people from elsewhere. In their pasts, rain had always come. There might be a year or even two where rainfall was low and they called it a drought. They didn't have the concept that dry years could follow one behind the other for nearly a decade.

Add to that the misinformation they were getting from people who believed that planting crops or trees could change the climate or from rainmakers who thought setting off explosions could cause rain. They didn't just have too little information, but added to it bad information.

It's always been a powerful image for me that from a handful of seed comes a field of crop and a farmer's whole livelihood. It's almost mystical and to cling to that relationship would be so powerful. I especially felt for poor Don Hartwell scraping together enough money to buy some seed and planting it over and over again.

Jan O'Cat

I ended up with 3 pages of notes from this book ! I think this book is a good example of 2 things.

One, I read a book that I probably never would have read on my own. So it expanded my knowledge horizons.

Two, It helped to reinforce my personal preference of not giving up on non fiction books if they don't grab me right away. It was a good example of a book that I felt improved as it went on. So I was happy I didn't give up on it.

Jan said: Is this a problem that's peculiar to the Southwest? It's something that I would have assumed is the same everywhere. In the winter we are warned that when filling our cars with gas, we need to touch the car somewhere upon getting out, before touching the gas pump. Static builds up from the friction while driving and discharging by touching the gas pump has caused explosions.

I've never heard this, but then maybe I'm a terrible danger when pumping gas in the winter. Are there signs at the gas station reminding you to do this? Wouldn't just touching the door handle as you get out be enough car contact?

Now that you mention it, I do remember seeing chains dragging behind the big rigs because we liked to see the sparks. I haven't seen that in years though.

Alias said: It helped to reinforce my personal preference of not giving up on non fiction books if they don't grab me right away. It was a good example of a book that I felt improved as it went on. So I was happy I didn't give up on it.

I really struggled to get into this book. Since I never give up on a book, I knew I was going to hang in there, but I thought it might be one I ended up skimming. To be honest, I am skimming the end a bit, but I truly enjoyed the human interest stories and I got caught up in the lives of some of the people. I'm glad I read it [I'll finish tonight} and I'm even more grateful that BNC has pushed me into non-fiction. It has certainly broadened my reading horizons.

Kate said: "I've never heard this, but then maybe I'm a terrible danger when pumping gas in the winter. Are there signs at the gas station reminding you to do this? Wouldn't just touching the door handle as you get out be enough car contact? "

Kate, I meant to answer this days ago and kept forgetting. I've been worried that you'd explode a gas tank in the intervening days!

Part of the idea is touching the car after you've already gotten out because dragging your bottom across the seat to get out creates more friction, therefore more static build-up. I suppose that those of us with enormous bottoms are at the greatest risk. :-)

No, there aren't signs at the gas station to remind, but having seen a couple of local stories of gas tank explosions is reminder enough for me. A couple of winters ago I think we had a particularly cold and dry winter and there were a couple of incidents. I had never heard of it previously but since then I touch the car door or something as I get out and, sure enough, most of the time I get a small .

I also remember that people who put the gas nozzle in the tank and then get back in their cars while the tank is filling are more at risk. I do this all the time. The wind here (to get a little back on topic--Egan mentioned Oklahoma's wind didn't he?) is so bad that people climb back in their cars to get out of it, but don't necessarily close the car door. So they're dragging their bottoms twice, but don't touch the door or the car body (like to open the little door to the tank) and the nozzle is the first thing they touch when the tank is full. BOOM!

Jan O'Cat, weird weather phenomena that people in other places never think about

Thanks for the explanation of touching cars/explosions Jan. I was completely unaware of this! Of course I tend to live in my happy little world, and I'm probably unaware of many things.

kate

I've been working outside, reading far too slowly, but I hope to finish tonight. I'm fascinated by the way Egan goes back and forth between the larger picture of how the areas affected were settled, and the political climate, and the stories of individual people. Some of his descriptions are simply staggering - like that of Black Sunday.

JanOMalleycat wrote: "I've always heard it's a long and tedious drive to the Panhandle. Somewhere up there are salt flats from ancient seas and mesaland. Sounds like it could be desolate. Deborah, when you lived in Guymon did you feel a part of Oklahoma? I have some distant step-relatives who live there and they always seemed more oriented to Amarillo than Oklahoma."

We moved to Oklahoma in the mid-80s because we wanted to live in the state again & be closer to kinfolk. As it happens two of the people i most wanted to be near died the preceeding year but we were committed in our search by that time. My point being that i did feel part of Oklahoma but i now think this was only due to our desire to live there.

As you indicated, Jan, Amarillo was the "go-to-town" place from Guymon. We went there more than any other city in OK, even though we laughed when calling it the Big City, as it was pretty rinky-dink. Heck, i went to Denver more than i went to OKC when we lived there! And you may imagine how ridiculous it was to learn that many people living in the panhandle considered Guymon the Big City! LOL And while i'm laughing in memories, when we lived in the Panhandle, Cimarron County had only one traffic light, as i believe Egan mentioned in his book. Is that progress? Btw, i believe he is mistaken about that fact. It was my understanding when we lived there that Cimarron County had no traffic lights until not long before we moved there.

The landscape is still pretty desolate. I was in the habit of squandering gasoline by driving in a sort of huge rectangle at least once a week. It was my sanity drive, frankly. Reaching into memories of those ventures i remember lots of ranching land, meaning no crops but some (not huge numbers) of livestock. As usual, you could tell water was nearby thanks to the brush & few trees which grew along the creek. Other than that it was unrelenting brown. Even in summer i don't remember green but, honestly, this is not a faithful recall, as i had less driving time in summer. While there are hills, they were more like molehills. You could clearly see towns 10 miles away. And tumbleweeds were featured.

The salt flats aren't actually in the panhandle but west of Alva, where i was born. It's still a mighty desolate sight, though, and a fine indicator that dryness abounds. The two years we lived there were rather dry but usually there are many huge snows & plentiful thunderstorms with winds whipping through almost constantly.

While we lived there the 50th anniversary of some aspects of the Dust Bowl were recalled in the local paper. One Sunday there was a big supplement with photos and personal stories. For this reason much of what i'm learning in the book, statistically is not new but the personal stories are. ("There are a million stories in the Naked City...") I thought i kept the supplement but haven't run across it in a long time, so guess not.

deborah
Oh! I wanted to add that folks make their own landmarks. Along the 100th meridian a tradition has started of abandoning dead cars to mark the imaginary line. It may be one person who has done this, i don't know. However, there are cars reaching back to the 30s in the line, which was a fun stop for photographing. And please remember the landmark known as the "Cadillac Ranch", where those cars are half-buried in dirt, another human-made landmark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac... Ah, humanity! :-)

deborah, I found your comments on living in OK interesting, especially your "sanity drive." Seems to me that people who live in relatively isolated areas need to get out occasionally. When I was little on the farm my mother would do that, go to Elkhorn for no good reason, drive around the back roads, just to see some fresh scenery.

I also knew lots of the facts about the Dust Bowl from teaching Grapes of Wrath, but the personal stories really brought the book to life. I kept going back and forth between thinking people who stayed were fools, and admiring them for their tenacity.

JanOMalleycat wrote: The Dust Bowl was a bigger tragedy than most of the boom-and-bust cycles, but on the other hand it started with a greater boom. So many people got rich. Even the Bam Whites and Doc Dawsons who weren't necessarily looking to get rich at least had the brief illusion that they could establish a secure home.

I am only half finished with the book. As mentioned in my last post too much of this is old news, so it's not as interesting as it normally would be. I intend to finish it, however, thanks to the stories of individual families, as poorly told as i think they are.

The above quote from Jan sums up my thought. Reading about the movers of Dalhart & other places reminded me of Sinclair Lewis's stories of boosterism. Those people & their desire to be Big People in developing towns helped keep others together during the first few bad years. That they hung on year after year astounds. Isn't it one of those things we love about people?

ANYway, i echo Jan's comments. For many of these folks, as Egan points out, this seemed as though it was the last chance for free land, there to produce miracles for the true believer. Most of those newcomers never owned their own land, so to give it up, particularly after the work invested, would go counter to everything they believed.

Forgive me for my own story here. Last Tuesday, i kid you not, i was commenting to my sister how lucky we were to live on a lake and in such a nice setting & home. Our grandparents could not have imagined such a luxury. Heck, they struggled to keep their one home. Even our parents never entertained retiring to a lake setting. So, we are lucky & i considered, as speaking to my sister, that we are part of the progression of our family.

Come Wednesday & the storms. Given the flood we just experienced, i'm here to tell you that if i thought this was going to be a yearly event, i'd leave. Even knowing that the previous owners had such a flood 3 years ago (& thought they'd solved it with French drains), i need to believe such a storm is going to be rare, maybe every other year. I suspect it is this optimism which carried those Dust Bowlers year after year. Surely we've experienced the worst. How could nature repeat itself? Why would it? Won't it end? No, we'll buy some seeds for crop & for our personal garden. We'll rearrange the furniture & rugs so the water won't get to them. We'll carry on because nothing worse will happen.

It would just be too much to think in the long term. I honestly doubt many of those people, had they known that year after year the same thing would repeat (let along get worse!), would have stayed. It was the not knowing, the optimism that this is there's & the ancestors would be proud they've come so far, that helped them stay.

I don't at all mean to equate the small problem we've just encountered with the grinding events those of the Dust Bowl experienced. But it has given me an appropriate taste of why & how people would stay. I guess this book is why Carl Sandburg has been on my mind so much recently. "The people yes"!

http://glenavalon.com/peopleyes.html

deborah

Kate described: "The avatar is Cincinnati chili. : ) It is a classic in this area with two main chains that serve similar versions. Yup, it is spaghetti, chili and tons of cheese. . .You can order the basic 3-way version which is exactly what I descrbied, or you can order a 4-way or 5-way. One of those versions includes beans. Cincinnati chili is to this area what Buffalo wings are to Buffalo

Kate, Prairie Home Companion had a piece featuring Cincinnati Chili this week. Guy Noir wants to order 2-way, just chili and beans and the waitress tells him there's no such thing, only 3, 4, or 5-way. "Wet or dry?" I thought of you while listening!

Jan O'Cat

Re. exploding gas tanks. For this bit of information i am grateful to the internet. In the first year of being actively online i got an email from a newly discovered relative (thank you, AOL's geneaology boards), which explained about such possibilities. Who knew? All those years of pumping gas & we could have been incinerated. Yikes!

I used to hesitate to kiss my uncle when we were kids because my Oklahoma grandparent's home in winter was charged with static electricity. They'd have the electric heater on, the fireplace roaring and 20 people playing bridge (while smoking, i must add, although i doubt this had an impact). Then my uncle would come in from the cold, blowing outdoors & want a kiss from me first, because i ran to him first. Ouch! Static Kiss!

deborah, thanking Jan for her public service announcement

madrano wrote: "the optimism that this is there's & the ancestors would be proud they've come so far, that helped them stay.

"there's"??? Get a grip, deb! Sorry 'bout that, folks.

deborah

The DVD I requested from my library, The Plow That Broke The Plains, is in. I'll try to pick it up tomorrow. It's the one that is mentioned in the book.

I'll let you know how it is.

Alias Reader wrote: "The movie mentioned in this chapter, The Plow that Broke the Plains is available on DVD. My library actually has it, so I requested it."

Tonight i read the chapter which mentions this film, so checked the 'net once i found that the local libraries, and dad's, do not have a copy. This website states they are only sharing the opening segment but i watched it all & the last frame declares, "THE END", so i don't know if it's the entire film or not. http://xroads.virginia.edu/~1930s/FIL...


It is enough to see Bam White's "performance", at least! It's less than half-way through what's available at this web site. I didn't see him looking this way, other than the mustache, that is. ;-) ANYway, i wanted to share with others who cannot find a copy of the film.

Well, i searched a bit more & found a larger photo version, 25 minutes long-- http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc...

Alias, i hope you'll let us know what you think of the film. I think it'll be interesting to see the images, if nothing else. Enjoy!

deborah

Ok, i just had to locate info on Laura Ingalls, the aviator mentioned in the chapter "Black Sunday". Here's what i found-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_In...

Better photo here-- http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/...

deb

Thanks, Deb for the Laura Ingalls link. I forgot I wanted to look her up. Wow ! a spy.

deborah:
Tonight i read the chapter which mentions this film, so checked the 'net once i found that the local libraries, and dad's, do not have a copy. This website states they are only sharing the opening segment but i watched it all & the last frame declares, "THE END", so i don't know if it's the entire film or not. http://xroads.virginia.edu/~1930s/FILM/l...

It is enough to see Bam White's "performance", at least
================================

The film was only 27 min. Deb my liner notes that "a didactic epilogue that was dropped shortly after the film's first release. It extols the Soil Conservation services, the CCC, Resettlement admin...etc" It was 3:28 min. Maybe that is why the clip you are seeing says it is not the full version. "The End" is what I have on the DVD, too. I don't have the original ending that was dropped shortly after it opened.

The film is in b&w, so it is less dramatic then if it were in color, but there was no color film at that time. It sort of looks like an amature video. There is a little voice over, but it is done in overly dramatic sentences. (the DVD liner notes call it "free verse poetry). I'm so dense, I just thought that was the film style of the time. :)

Here is how the film opens.

High winds and sun
A country without rivers
And with little rain
Settler: plow at your peril !
Two hundred miles from water
Two hundred miles from town
But the land is new
Many were disappointed
The rains failed
And the sun baked the light soil.


It seems very dated, as you would expect. My opinion is it's a good thing the govt. doesn't make films. :) The booklet that came with the DVD notes that it "broke new ground in seamlessly marrying pictorial imagery, symphonic music, and poetic free verse, all realized with supreme artistry.

On the plus side you are seeing actual footage of the DB, not a Hollywood recreation.

As for Bam, it is hardly anything controversial. I guess he was shunned for just being in the film. But he isn't doing anything out of the ordinary.

The critics called the film New Deal propaganda. But I don't recall anything in the film that wasn't accurate. In fact, at one point, the film makes the point that the farmers and homesteaders were pushed in part by govt. to plant more and more wheat for the war effort.

The film was voted best documentary at the 1938 Venice Film Festival.

My DVD also came with The River (31 min.) It was nominated for a Pulitzer prize. I'll try to watch that today.

"As The Plow had traced the history of the Great Plains and shown how abuse of the land led to the dust bowl, The River traces the history of the Mississippi River and argues the necessity of a system of dams to harness water. Lorentz's script links the Depression to misuse of the great river and over cultivation and urbanization of its valley, leaving farmland unfit for farming and the "ill housed,, ill clothed, ill fed Americans who condition Roosevelt famously decried. "

The DVD also comes with a few interviews.

Alias, thanks for the information. On YouTube there is an older man discussing the film, so i'm now guessing that is from the DVD. They don't explain who he is & didn't really add much, but i found it odd there was no name attached.

I also watched a bit of The River & thought the images were striking in black & white. I also liked the b&w images in Plow, but wondered how they'd look in color.

I haven't finished the book, so didn't know Bam was shunned for being in the film. I can't imagine why, although i did find it amusing that while he claimed to the cowpoke life his immortality will be with a plow.

deborah

I finished the book last night. The last paragraph, about Ike's life journey brought tears to my eyes. I know lots of people had it tough but that guy went from the Dust Bowl to D-Day! Remarkable.

We're deluding ourselves if we think that's the only way we are screwing up our land. I'm particularly worried about the aquifer mentioned in the book, the Ogallala, which is also called the High Plains aquifer. First, here's the info on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala...
Note that near the end of the article it mentions one man's fight to stop the US Government from depositing nuclear waste on panhandle land, lest it leak into the aquifer. (This has been my fear for years, regardless where we put the waste.)

When we moved to Guymon, we had a pre-move visit. DH took us to Lake Optima. We stood on the concrete boating dock & searched long & hard to find the lake. It was well named, as there was no water to be seen from that point. Here's a wiki article about that expensive endeavor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optima_Lake

As i neared the end of the book i realized that my upthread description of Guymon is faulty. There is growth on the ground, unlike the dust bowl era. Sagebrush, thistle & such, as well as mesquite trees and other arid growing plants. It's not often green, and this where my "brown" memory arises. There are some trees, usually poplar or cottonwood scattered about, as well. And in towns there is green, energetically watered from that aquifer!

While i felt parts of the book were redundant, as though Egan wanted to see how many different ways he could repeat the descriptions of booming towns & the dust itself, i liked that he shared human stories. This is what made the book and kept me going.

deborah

Deborah said: While i felt parts of the book were redundant, as though Egan wanted to see how many different ways he could repeat the descriptions of booming towns & the dust itself, i liked that he shared human stories. This is what made the book and kept me going.

Deborah, these were my feelings about the book too. I kept going for the human stories, and because I was learning things I hadn't known. But where you said the author was redundant, the adjective in my head was relentless. I realize the time period was relentless in its misery, but it wore on me after a while.

Deborah said: "While i felt parts of the book were redundant, as though Egan wanted to see how many different ways he could repeat the descriptions of booming towns & the dust itself, i liked that he shared human stories. This is what made the book and kept me going. "

I thought Egan might be guilty of wanting to share every firsthand account he was able to find, indiscriminately. Instead of presenting the best, or most representative story, of each topic, he shared ALL of them.

Jan O'Cat

"We're deluding ourselves if we think that's the only way we are screwing up our land. I'm particularly worried about the aquifer mentioned in the book, the Ogallala, which is also called the High Plains aquifer. First, here's the info on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aq... "

That was a reaction i had too. Part of the message I got was that people have an amazing power to mess things up in the landscape, and that short-term economic concerns cannot be all we think about. The government really encouraged farmers to strip sod from the plains in order to plant wheat, and people were thinking they were going to be patriotic and grow rich. We all know what happened.