Speaker Geeks! discussion

Well, there's Dark Energy...

My little view on this topic: Maybe there was a time in history when all existed, mystics and miracles were common then, witchcraft and magic... All that influences certain people today, so they stick to it.

I side with numey with dark energy. There are certain elements that is used against human to control them. They are often Called as black magic.

I want to share one experience my dad shared with me yesterday when we were talking about this topic.

He said during his initial college days his neighbour were quite rich people. They were very nice and all and easily trusted anyone. What happend was one day one if their relative came and asked for shelter, he used to practice this stuff with bones and other things. That neighbor when found about it told him to stop all that otherwise leave. The relative one day left but after that suddenly the neighbors family lost all their business within days. The neighbor died falling from second floor. Six months later the daughter died the same way.

Even now they are in worst condition. He had only one son and one daughter and when the son got married his mother died falling from terrace on the day of marriage.They still are childless and often it happens that when the son get up from sleep , there is blood near his pillow. Mind you without any injury or internal bleeding. This is seen with eyes by my grandparents who still lives beside them.

Can the science give explanation for this...

Are you sure you know what "dark energy" mean in physics? Can't those experiences be explained by simple coincidence?

I think "black magic", like other superstitutions, are just psychological mechanisms some people use to cope with sufferings and uncertainties in life.

I actually wanted you guys to give me scientific explanation.... I also wanna know how much coincide can be said here...

Kate as per your message 6, I would like to say is, there are some elements known as paranormal which is beyond human understandings, and yes science do have caught on it. If you know, there is a field for this research that is called paranormal science which deals with these kind of elements. They have gadgets and instruments to detect any form of energy that is not associated with anything before. There are certain elements that cannot be explained just yet but that does not mean they do not exist.

The incident I mentioned above. So you will believe that some absurd coincidence is that all three of the family members died in the same way falling from top ? And the fourth member lives in misery now. With often blood around him though he has been thoroughly checked up and he doesn't have any injury ? No internal bleeding neither external ? Not once twice but often ? How can coincidence or unfortunate event fit here. And yeah it cannot be ruled out as rumors because there are witnesses and one of the witness is my grandparents who lives next to them.

Raeez wrote: " Purvika wrote: The incident I mentioned above. So you will believe that some absurd coincidence is that all three of the family members died in the same way falling from top ?


How sure are you ..."

Raeez wrote: " Purvika wrote: The incident I mentioned above. So you will believe that some absurd coincidence is that all three of the family members died in the same way falling from top ?


How sure are you ..."


The police ruled out it as suicide and it was police who said it as death in an mysteries circumstances. And no I haven't seen with my eyes. But my Grammy ( grand parents ) did. So, you saying that they are lying... After hearing this incident me, the non-inquisitive person asked my father all series of questions. I myself do not just believe anything so I asked you so intelligent people for explanation because I wanted to counter it myself. I want you to explain me what could have been if it wasn't something what they talk about; that is some paranormal stuff. And pls spare me the coincidences here... Or series of unfortunate events. I do not accept that. I believe in all these things yet I am open to understand what could be the cause.

The most details I can provide is :

The police ruled it out as suicide, claiming death in mysterious circumstances.
The father, mother and daughter died same way ( this was also claimed by police),
Son was suspect but was ruled out because of lack of evidence and the mother when died son was getting married.
No background of suicidal tendencies.
No property disputes as they have already lost everything.
For the bleeding; son doesn't have any illness not any injury to sprout out blood in sleep only.
Blood is around him not on him ...


So these are the things I know so far. What can be it according to you... ?

Raeez wrote: "@All members here:

See, first things first and please don't get me wrong. There is psychological tendency "LIKING".

We tend to believe easily anything said to us by the very people whom do we l..."


No, I disagree with you on this... I love my grandparents and my father very well but I do not practice idol worshipping because they cannot give me answer for my questions. So why don't I agree and believe them even though I love or "LIKE" them ?

I only believe things I have answer for or what answers I feel is correct UNTILL I am proven wrong and till I am proven wrong (which means other theories satisfy my questions and I should accept that yes I am wrong ) and mind u I am not one of those stubborn people who stick to their beliefs and not seek the truth... I am one of those who seek what is true and determine it myself what is false and do not hesitate in accepting when I am proven wrong.

Xdyj wrote: "Are you sure you know what "dark energy" mean in physics? Can't those experiences be explained by simple coincidence?

I think "black magic", like other superstitutions, are just psychological mech..."

yes, thanku. waiting for someone to pick it up!

ok. But i dont think "dark energy" is corect term to be using.... Dark Energy, right there, is a direct reference to one of the most mysterious things in astrophysics...

Raeez wrote: "Purvika wrote: "Raeez wrote: " Purvika wrote: The incident I mentioned above. So you will believe that some absurd coincidence is that all three of the family members died in the same way falling f..."

That tenet or relative was gone... Ohk... If we accept that then why leave the son... ? And if that relative pushed then no one saw him enter or leave ? Ohk if he somehow managed that...then also circumstances does not let me accept that the tenant could do that ... Get into house drag the person to his desired position and push from there and no one get to know ...

And the bribing thing... Well he was getting married and his mother fell...

Motive matters... The tenant had motive ... What motive will son have ... ?

Ohk..lets leave this incident because neither you nor me knows more than what I have mentioned... I will still have my doubts and you will have yours..lets move on to topic...

Raeez wrote: "Purvika wrote: "Raeez wrote: "@All members here:

See, first things first and please don't get me wrong. There is psychological tendency "LIKING".

We tend to believe easily anything said to us b..."


Don't worry :) my feelings aren't so gullible to be hurt by these things... :) otherwise I wouldn't even debate :P ...

hmmm i see a murder mystery happening here.


The son is the only living family member, so it could be some psychological problem... He could be the killer. As for the mysterious blood, and since he doesnt remember/know how it got there.... This may be a case of multiple personality or schizophrenia....

Some kind of incident may have triggered his extreme behaviour....

Hey Freud, got any suggestions?

Why don't I believe them ?

Because their answers doesn't satisfy my questions simple ....

And as far as existence of supernatural elements are concerned my belief is they exists ....

Sasha Ivashkov-Herondale-Jackson wrote: "hmmm i see a murder mystery happening here.


The son is the only living family member, so it could be some psychological problem... He could be the killer. As for the mysterious blood, and since h..."


Well this thing I can accept... It is lot better than absurd coincidence... Personality disorder can be a cause .. :)

Raeez wrote: "Purvika wrote: Don't worry :) my feelings aren't so gullible to be hurt by these things... :) otherwise I wouldn't even debate

These are sensitive matters and people get hurt easily. As a matter ..."

See the problem is with those who get angry is they don't want to accept that some where something they are getting to is wrong . One only get angry when he/she either doesn't want to accept the truth or doesn't have anything to counter. But those who are open to any discussion without the fear of losing are the true debaters who knows and realise when they have been proven wrong... Well that's what i think...

So , lets continue :)

hmmm this is actually a very interesting and original idea for a debate...!

Kate wrote: "Purvika wrote: "Kate as per your message 6, I would like to say is, there are some elements known as paranormal which is beyond human understandings, and yes science do have caught on it. If you kn..."

Firstly it wasn't my personal "story" ... It was an incident I was told when I discussed this topic with my father.

Secondly if you had read all the messages you would realize in my message 25 I had already ruled it out .... Moreover I never gave it as evidence...rather I wanted a closure on that incident .... From other's perspective because I normally don't get to conclusions without proper answers.

As for evidence regarding paranormal elements, No, I do not have any evidence nor can I provide one. But that doesn't mean it does not exist. Science is still evolving, each day bring something new. We never know what tomorrow have it in for us. And some time back science totally declined the existence of anything that is not normal or natural but now they have a field that IS studying this portion of life or whatever it is.

And moreover science Is creation of human, and scientists are human too, they have their own faith believes and even if something will be in front of them they will reject it giving some physical or other explanations. But everything doesn't have explanations... Sometimes even things that don't have explanations can be true....

Just like you asked me evidence for its existence ... Please do provide me its non- existence . Please prove it to me that it does not exist.

It could be real, but I don't believe in it. Even if you show me good deal of evidences (from random paranormal video files) I still wont believe in it. Things are complicated enough for most of us, of being ourselves, surviving, producing oil like a slave on some magic mushrooms lol
So this, on top of that, would just be a form of paranoia. And I'm not an atheist, agnostic, religious etc, don't need a nomenclature for my set of belief system. (:

Kate wrote: "Purvika wrote: "Just like you asked me evidence for its existence ... Please do provide me its non- existence . Please prove it to me that it does not exist."

"I mean, you could claim anything's ..."

Just a twisted version :)

"I mean, you could claim nothing's real if the only basis for believing in it is that nobody's proved it does exist!"

Raeez wrote: "For Non existence: Lets use Proof by Contradiction.

First we believe in the notion that black magic exists.

Then questions follow:

If it really exists (provided very hard to master it), the C..."

did u just say that the government shud have used it??? really... i dont mean to sound mean... but thats very silly and hardly counts as an argument...

hahahaha but if it was a joke, then its actually quite funny.


Using ur example, is like saying that the government shud have prayed to God (instead of taking action) to stop terrorists....



AFter all, this black magic, is just like religion... A belief... in a way.... i think... The wiccan religion is witchcraft and stuff (which is actually wicked cool! do witchy spells like harry potter)

Raeez wrote: "For Non existence: Lets use Proof by Contradiction.

First we believe in the notion that black magic exists.

Then questions follow:

If it really exists (provided very hard to master it), the C..."


Ohk that just cracked me up ..... Just imagined the CIA guys practicing all that stuff :P

Ohk lets just for a min think what you Said then we can easily assume they are atheist like you :D and then a internal debate will start there about it and instead of training they will be debating ". Does Black Magic exist? "

XD :P

Kate wrote: "Purvika wrote: "Kate wrote: "Purvika wrote: "Just like you asked me evidence for its existence ... Please do provide me its non- existence . Please prove it to me that it does not exist."

"I mean..."

Ohk lets just talk about real things for you... If keeping magic aside... I ask you what's your view on souls. Do you believe they exist ? I mean do you believe we all have souls ?

Can you explain what this suppose to mean - you don't disbelieve in them but you don't believe in them either ?

I am confused because you can either believe something or not... Your line is contradiction in itself......

There is no dark magic. Or magic of any hue for that matter. They are just unexplained natural phenomena which will be explained in the future.

I think Hume's argument on miracle may also apply on this: if we call something supernatural or paranormal it should go against some established scientific law. However, if its existence can be proved through evidences with sufficient certainty then the laws it goes against are no longer scientific, b/c they can no longer account for all empirical data. In other words, there is no reason to believe the existence of the supernatural.

^^Well put Xdyj

I'm with Kate on this one though; evaluating them while staying neutral is always ideal on these subjects, mostly to avoid offending others by any means. Hence, like the idea of 'Believe what you want but please don't try to impose it on others...' (:

^^^ yes there is that idea of not imposing ur beliefs on others... BUT is not black magic about that??? well the people may not be forcing thier beliefs in others faces, but they are using certain kinds of witchcraft to affect the chances of certain occurances.