Classic Horror Lovers discussion

Happy Turkey Day to Ken, Charlene, Laura, and any others who happen to be reading this!

**********"A Neighbour's Landmark"**********

I really liked this one. The mystery was laid out and resolved. The haunting was explained. Pretty straight forward ghost story.

The Story of a Disappearance and an Appearance.

All I have to say is meh. 2 stars.

**********"A View from a Hill"**********

This story had a creepy feel to it. I can't say though that I cared at all for the Squire. He and Fanshawe were supposed to be acquaintances. But, the Squire seemed outright rude at times. Not very friendly.

I found the scene with Fanshawe walking through the woods to be especially creepy.

Again, James writes a short story with some sense of closure. Those certainly number in the minority in these four collections that we are looking at.

Two Doctors. Too boring. I was very disappointed. Though I did like the images that came to mind when reading about how the doors were ripped off. That's about it.

**********"A Warning to the Curious"**********

This story seemed really, really familiar. I don't recall ever having read any MR James prior to this buddy read.

Can anyone think of what other story might have been similar to this one?

**********"An Evening's Entertainment"**********

(view spoiler)[James really left a lot of this one open for speculation. Was it a murder/suicide as was speculated in the story or was it something else altogether? Were the man and the boy grave robbing the Roman graves? Did they stir up something in the process? Were they practicing witchcraft and conjure up something they shouldn't have?

I think it works well in this story to leave so many questions unanswered. It keeps the verbal tradition of the local legend alive and keeps it scary. (hide spoiler)]

Discussion of “An Evening’s Entertainment”.

I hope everyone enjoyed the long holiday weekend.

I’m discussing this particular story out of order, I’m afraid. I still have three of the “middle” stories from A Warning to the Curious and Other Ghost Stories to re-read; for whatever reason, I decided to tackle this one first. I hope to get to the remaining tales sometime later this week.

(view spoiler)[I get the impression that as time went on James became increasingly dissatisfied with the standard tropes of the supernatural genre, but, unable to always figure out ways to circumvent them, instead took to apologizing for them to his audience. Hence, we get the coda to "The Haunted Dolls' House" and now in this story a lengthy preamble bemoaning the "old-fashioned" nature of the fireside story narrated by an aged grandmother. If James was frustrated by these limitations, fine and dandy, but I wish he would dispense with the mea culpas. They serve only to highlight the so-called problem and weaken the overall narrative.

"Entertainment" struck me as in some ways similar to "The Story of a Disappearance and an Appearance" — that is, it's a kind of bare-bones approach to a ghost story with (as Ken notes) a lot left unspecified. Fortunately, it's not quite as sparse as "Appearance" and it has a kind of propulsive force that I found lacking in "Appearance". In "Entertainment" we have another story in which individuals are messing around with forces best left alone; in this instance, Davis and his unnamed associate seem to be involved in some type of Celtic/pagan rite that ultimately ends in Davis' sacrifice and his associate's suicide. Unlike most of James' stories, in this one there is not much going on that is overtly supernatural. We have a hint early on about the "company" present during the night-time sojourns on the hillside; it's possible this company might consist of others in Davis' "coven" (if that's the right word), but I somehow think otherwise. In addition we are given intimations that the ghosts of the duo afterwards wander the scenes of their former activities. And then, finally, we have the flies (which echo their use in "The Residence at Whitminster").

Overall, not a terrible story, but (again) not in the league of James' earlier efforts. (hide spoiler)]

3.0* (of 5)

Canavan wrote: "Discussion of “An Evening’s Entertainment”.

I hope everyone enjoyed the long holiday weekend.

I’m discussing this particular story out of order, I’m afraid. I still have three of the “middle” sto..."

(view spoiler)[I guess what I liked most about this one was that I can imagine those kids growing up and telling their grandkids the same story, perhaps adding their own bits and pieces to the story along the way. No explanation is necessary. It will always be scary because of that.

I must be nostalgic for campfire horror stories. (hide spoiler)]

Canavan wrote: "Discussion of "The Haunted Dolls' House".

At the end of "The Haunted Dolls’ House", James offers a species of apology — an acknowledgement that the story bears perhaps more than a passing resembla..."

The Haunted Doll House.

I liked this one. Even more than the Mezzotint story. Thanks for posting the link to the doll house, Canavan. What a cool creation that is.

Discussion of "A Neighbour’s Landmark".

I found this to be another middling yarn in terms of its place in the Jamesian hierarchy.

3.0* (of 5)

(view spoiler)[I had problems with both the beginning of the story and its end, but thought the middle was reasonably effective. The introductory portion was meandering, even for a James story, and I actually had to read through the first couple of pages a second time before I had a decent sense of what was going on. The bibliophilic narrator is a surrogate for the author. When the narrator somewhat querulously comments on new-fangled writers and embraces his own identity as a Victorian one gets the sense that James (at this point in the twilight of his life) might have been indirectly responding to critics of his own writing style.

I liked the section in which the "haunting" is first introduced — when our narrator is standing on the hill and the cry causes a sort of sudden shift in his perceptions of the scene before him. It reminded me a bit of the opening sequence in the 80's anthology series Tales from the Darkside in which a rather cheery sunlit countryside is suddenly replaced by a shot of the same countryside as seen through a darkened filter. (As an aside, when describing the at-first idyllic-appearing hillside setting, James compares it to a landscape by Birket Foster. He is referring to Myles Birket Foster, a popular painter/illustrator of the 19th century. If you Google his name you'll get a ton of images. He specialized in pastoral landscapes populated by overly-sentimentalized peasant-type folk. My paternal grandmother used to adore this type of stuff.) My favorite part of the story, however, was the eyewitness description of the shrieking ghost as "something all in tatters with the two arms held out in front of it coming on very fast".

I found the ending of the story a bit jarring. James is letting us know that there is more to the story, but he's not going to tell the reader. I know we've debated before the topic of the completeness of James' stories, and here it is again. In this instance I don't mind the fact that James is withholding information from the reader — what I find mildly annoying is the manner in which he does so. Specifically, I thought the ending was a bit disjointed and abrupt. And the coda concerning Fox's findings on James' "heroine", Lady Ivie, works to make the story slightly less effective. My understanding is that this last section first appeared in the collected edition of James' ghost stories (i.e., after the story had originally appeared in A Warning to the Curious). The problem is that Lady Ivie's mysterious disappearance is part of what makes the story interesting. Fox then comes along and spoils things a bit by noting that, oh by the way, she didn't really disappear and she was found not guilty and she died in her bed. That, I suppose, is one of the dangers of basing a fictional ghost on a real-life person. (Interesting that we are once again exposed to Judge Jeffries, first introduced to James' readers in "A Rose Garden".) (hide spoiler)]

Discussion of "An Evening’s Entertainment".

Ken wrote (in part):

I guess what I liked most about this one was that I can imagine those kids growing up and telling their grandkids the same story, perhaps adding their own bits and pieces to the story along the way. No explanation is necessary. It will always be scary because of that.

I do like stories that fit this mold, Ken. The one that "Entertainment" initially reminded me of was Jane Gaskell's "The Old Nurse's Story" (1852).

Discussion of "The Haunted Dolls' House".

Charlene wrote (in part):

Thanks for posting the link to the doll house, Canavan. What a cool creation that is.

Yes, I thought so too. The amount of work that went into its creation must have been staggering.

Discussion of "A Warning to the Curious".

Mild spoilers only.

Ken wrote:

This story seemed really, really familiar. I don't recall ever having read any MR James prior to this buddy read. Can anyone think of what other story might have been similar to this one?

I haven't yet gotten around to re-reading this one and, since it's been quite a while since I last looked at it, I may be talking out of my you-know-what. I've always tend to lump this tale in with other WWI stories in which phantoms intervene on behalf of British forces such as in Arthur Machen's "The Bowmen" (1914). This is in spite of the fact that the events in James' story take place, as best I can remember, shortly after the end of the Great War. Perhaps more to your point, Ken, the whole crown business is reminiscent of stories having to do with King Arthur's almost messianic return to Britain in times of great trouble. In many of these tales his return is somehow tied to his crown. I wish I could think of a good example here, but am coming up a bit blank. I do know that Mike Mignola weaved this idea-myth into his Hellboy comics.

Canavan wrote: "I do like stories that fit this mold, Ken. The one that "Entertainment" initially reminded me of was Jane Gaskell's "The Old Nurse's Story" (1852)...."

Downloading this one tonight....and adding it to the insurmountable Mount To-be-read.

Discussion of "A Warning to the Curious".

Ken wrote:

This story seemed really, really familiar. I don't recall ever having read any MR James prior to this buddy read. Can anyone think of what other story might have been similar to this one?

I thought I would toss this out as one additional possibility, Ken. I’m not a big computer gamer myself, but I did learn that The Lost Crown: A Ghost-Hunting Adventure, developed and written by Jonathan Boakes, is heavily influenced by the events of "A Warning to the Curious". The Wikipedia article for this game can be read here.

Discussion of "A View from a Hill".

(view spoiler)[As noted previously by Ken, this is (for James) a fairly straightforward story. Maybe a little too straightforward for my taste. There is, for example, a moment near the end when the Squire finds it necessary to "recap" Baxter's actions as though 99% of James' readers hadn't already figured it out. In addition, I found the story came up a bit short on the "creepy" factor. Specifically, the tale's climactic moment — when Baxter is frogmarched down a nighttime road by unseen hands — struck me as more silly than scary; especially when his hat is put back on his head (!). Still, not a bad story. I liked the basic idea of viewing the past through the eyes of the dead.

As an aside, I found James' depiction Baxter an interesting one. In some respects the picture painted is much like the one of Karswell in "Casting the Runes". Both are amateur antiquarians of a sort; and both have attained a level of proficiency well beyond that of their more professional counterparts — Karswell is able to summon up demons and Baxter, by dint of his ability to see into the past, is easily able to discover past archeological sites and reconstruct what they looked like. Yet they get no points from James for their abilities because they're doing things in the "wrong" way (i.e., by dealing with dark forces). What I find noteworthy (and a bit amusing) is that James seems to find it necessary to stress that, not only are these two guys evil, but they're evil and low class/uneducated. Thus, Karswell, who seems to be a member of the nouveau riche, has his book criticized by Harrington as both evil and "in point of style and form, quite hopeless". Similarly, Baxter's writings, although accurate and insightful, are criticized as "written in an odd, pompous, only half-educated style". It's hard not to draw conclusions about James' classism and perhaps also his defensiveness about the professional status of his own antiquarian pursuits. (hide spoiler)]

3.5* (of 5)

Canavan wrote: "Discussion of "The Uncommon Prayer-Book".

This particular story is not one that I remembered all that well prior to re-reading last evening. It proved to be a bit of a disappointment. James mines ..."

Thanks for contributing so much in your post on this story. I don't know if I'm running out of steam here, but I've not enjoyed these last few stories very much. I hope they get a little better.

Charlene wrote (in part):

I don't know if I'm running out of steam here, but I've not enjoyed these last few stories very much. I hope they get a little better.

I personally think the stories in James’ last two collections were weaker than those in the first two. If you can only bring yourself to read one more, Charlene, you might consider "A Warning to the Curious", the title story of the last collection. For many Jamesian enthusiasts it ranks as one his best.

Discussion of "A Warning to the Curious".

It's been a long time since I last read this one — probably 15 or more years. I know that I'm supposed to admire "Warning" since it routinely ranks quite high on polls of Jamesian fans. This recent re-read left me perhaps thinking a bit more highly of it — but not much more. It still strikes me as a good, but by no means great piece. I can quickly think of half a dozen I like far more.

(view spoiler)[This story starts out as well as anything James ever wrote. I particularly like the author's description of Seaburgh; James' affection for the locale (actually Aldeburgh, Suffolk) really shines through. I thought Paxson to be perhaps James' most complex and complete character; he is typically Jamesian in that he's another one of those antiquarians who gets entangled with stuff best left alone, but he's neither wholly sympathetic nor evil. His actions in acquiring the crown are clearly driven by baser considerations; he seems to know that what he's doing is wrong even as he's burrowing into the mound, but he continues nonetheless. And yet he's sympathetic enough that his final comeuppance (especially given that he returns the crown) seems sorta harsh.

So what don't I like about the story? I'm perhaps unduly bothered by what I think of as logical problems with the narrative. First, after purloining the crown, Paxson leaves the locality via train. Yet when returning the crown, the trio are within easy walking distance of the barrow. (This inconsistency has been noted by others. I've read a few attempts to explain it away, but none are to my mind very convincing.) Second, the circumstances surrounding Paxson's death (presumably at the hands of Ager) lack internal consistency. We are earlier told that Ager's shade is "light and weak". But Paxson's ultimate fate seems to belie that assessment — his death is particularly brutal for a James story and certainly not something that could be accomplished by a "light and weak" entity. It makes one wonder why Ager didn't bother to settle Paxson's hash at the barrow. (hide spoiler)]

3.5* (of 5)

"he was eyeing a framed engraving, or maybe it was an old tintype: a rather creepy manor house drenched in moonlight. Fanshawe moved his face closer, for it seemed that a thin, bent figure was climbing into a first-floor window. Was there also the tiniest image of a nude woman inside, screaming at the figure's appearance?" - Witch Water by Edward Lee.

I am just starting this book. Am I seeing MR James influence here?

UPDATE: If I had read the intro I would know:

Join Edward Lee in his over-the-top modern-day tribute to classic horror scribe M.R. James, a novel of immemorial curses, demonic lust, and absolutely unmitigated evil.

Ken wrote (in part):

Join Edward Lee in his over-the-top modern-day tribute to classic horror scribe M.R. James, a novel of immemorial curses, demonic lust, and absolutely unmitigated evil.

Heh-heh. Edward Lee and M. R. James are two names I normally wouldn’t associate with one another. I can’t imagine that Monty would have been pleased with Lee’s homage.

LOL Agreed, Canavan. Lee and James are definitely not two names that I would connect. I am going to continue reading these stories, but I'm taking a slight break first. Maybe if I switch things up a bit, I will enjoy these more when I return. I still plan on coming here to post as I read each one.

Charlene wrote (in part):

I am going to continue reading these stories, but I'm taking a slight break first. Maybe if I switch things up a bit, I will enjoy these more when I return. I still plan on coming here to post as I read each one.

Take your time, Charlene. I certainly understand the need to take a break from an author. I’ll look forward to your future posts.

As I look forward to seeing yours!
As I finish each story, I pop in and take a look at what you and Ken have had to say about them. Even though I'm not really contributing that much to the conversations (you guys are awesome), I am enjoying this discussion a lot. :)

Merry Christmas to all who celebrate and to those who may not celebrate!

Back at ya! :)