Bisky's Twitterling's Scribbles! discussion

Ok, this is a question I had in mind like forever.

How do you go about choosing what age is appropriate for your work. What makes you choose 14+ over 16+ or 17/18+

Do you go with the story line only? Or do you take in consideration the language (bad words etc.), violence and/or the sexual content?

I want to know your point of view on it. What are your criteria to define the bar between 16+ and adult?

Also, do you write accordingly or do you choose afterwards in which age appropriate you will classify it?

Please for the language and sex answers, moderate yourself as if your children (or younger siblings) were watching. :P

Thank you.

This is interesting!

While I was growing up, the only thing my parents censored from me was sexual things, telling me to either go out the room or fastforwarding through it. Though my father would never have anything in the house that had violence towards females in a sexual manner.

A Dance With Fury has that, slightly. Nothing big or overly dramatic because it would never be something I would write about because of my upbrining. But its something that happens in life, so its going to get a mention in a book somewhere along the lines.

I also can't write sexy things in detail because I can't imagine my dad reading it o_o *shudder*

But my parents never censored any violence from me. I saw Predator really young (though I had to cover my ears for the rude joke they say at the beginning) because it wasn't real. And they gave me a good understanding of reality.

But my parents were a good gauge at knowing the difference between gore and things that are disturbing. A Dance With Fury is 18+ for the disturbing parts more than anything else (I'm a dark cow really lol)

So 'disturbing' psychological things is really where I think about it. I will be writing two stand alone YA novels soon, one does have some disturbing painful scenes. But I've seen worse in cartoons :p

This is a very good question!
Classification differs: I saw a DVD classified 12+, same movie in a different country 15PG.

Most of the stuff I write is easily 16+. I do not plan beforehand which classification to select as I tend to follow my gut feeling. 14+ might also qualify, I just guess that 14-year-olds might be bored. ;)

@ Bisky: 'But my parents never censored...' This whole paragraph also applies in my case. Our parents apparently knew how to bring up their kids.

Ah! that's my problem too! my parents never censored violence (nudity was not a problem on tv in those years) and as a parent myself later on, I tended to do the same. Of course my son was caught seeing nudity in some movies but we didn't make a huge deal out of it. (And all he did was blush a little.)

I grew up watching twilight zone. I remember laying on the sofa with a clear view of all my surroundings and getting ready to be scared. (And to think that my sister in law wouldn't let her son (12 at the time) watch Spiderman because of violence... go figure)

I'm kind of like you Bisky. In my sequel, I have a rape, because (strange but true) I needed it for the story to feel true, but I don't go into descriptions. I know scenes like that are disturbing even for adults so the whole thing is done and over in a few short paragraphs (if even that long).

I can't imagine having a parent reading some of the erotic books I have read. No, let me rephrase that. I can't imagine them reading it if it were MINE! haha
In my first draft, I had a very descriptive sex scene, my sister in law was appalled by it, while my sister loved it. I decided to cut it to the minimum and mostly go with hints. (In other words, the top part of the body is fair play, the bottom part, hinted, and I still don't know what age to classify it. I went with 16+)

@Karen I agree with you. Writing in accordance to age will hinder your creativity. And it makes things easier too; you only have to think about classification ONCE. :p

So I get this so far: Mature subject might bore younger audience. Too disturbing, same thing. What about sex? Graphic sex 18+ and non graphic sex 16+?
What's the line between too graphic and not too graphic?

G.G. wrote: "Ah! that's my problem too! my parents never censored violence (nudity was not a problem on tv in those years) and as a parent myself later on, I tended to do the same. Of course my son was caught s..."

There is quite a thin line between too graphic and not too graphic. This depends on the target group's nationality as well as the individuals' maturity. Something like 'they kissed wildly and ended up below the kitchen table' is not too graphic. As soon as you go into more detail (e.g. 'he started nibbling on her right earlobe and his delicate pianist's fingers started to explore...') - the target group's nationality might make a difference. If you describe everything - it will sure be 18+... ;)

Thank you Karen. That helps a lot! :)
(I love your examples :P )

Interesting discussion! I recently revisited a teen novel I first read in 8th grade. My first thought was "holy crap, I read this at 13??". All characters were over 18, but there was more than one scene that involved raging teen hormones. Realistic? You bet. Appropriate for teenagers... meh, I suppose.

Personally I'm just not interested in those scenes, realistic or not. My stories don't take place in the bedroom, nor do the characters ever find themselves "overwhelmed with passion". I guess my thing is, I steer clear of romance, so the issue never arises.

Also, as far as violence goes, it depends on the setting and characters. If the story dives into the mind of a serial killer, well, probably not suitable for under 18. Yet if it's natural violence (Ex: world war), then 13+ should be adequate. It's my personal belief you can't shield them forever, and learning about the world DOES include violence and overcoming it.

Language is a whole other ballgame. Regardless of the target age, using adult words should be used very sparingly. If every piece of dialog has a curse word in it, the novel lacks class. There are so many more ways to express a scene without the use of those words.

Adult words as in the 'F' word?
I know I tend to cringe every time a movie or tv show characters cannot speak without adding the F word whether it is at its simplest or ending with in 'ing'. I think it is much more effective when the bomb word only comes out in extreme circumstances. It's kind of like yelling. If you yell all the time, your kids won't react when you're mad, but if you always speak calmly, the first time you will yell, they will stop dead in their track.

British people tend to use the word blood(y). (I guess they are vampire fans after all. /ducks)

There are also the ones that are often used in their original forms or softened such as heck and darn (not saying the original as I am not sure if those classify as foul language.)

Are all those the ones you are referring to Dawn?

(I feel as if I'm playing Hangman here with all the incomplete words...) ;)

*Throws twilight books at you*

When it comes to swears (in my experience) the actual ones we british use never come up on the TV because they are rather obscure. Like cockney rhyming slang for instance without writing out examples lol In my family using swears was frowned upon if you couldn't find a more witty alternative.

:p WHen I was 14 my aunt gave me a book by sherrilyn kenyon, the one with the Viking (go figure lol!) cant remember what its called. My mother was horrifed when she later read it. But really, it is graphic, (I remember going o__o) but compared to some of the awful things I've read in recent novels Its pretty tame. I like the rude parts of a body to be described wihtout using their real names, the Cl word (for the woman bean) makes me cringe even as an adult.

I also didn't think that Twilight was appropriate for its marketed audeince (I never read it, but a chapter was read to me by 10 year old when I was tutoring english. I'd never heard of it and it was the most awkard twenty minutes of my life lol)

Also, on the violence censorship. I just want to add that I heard about the holocaust very very young from my grandad, he was part of the British army that took over Bergen Belsen just after the Americans liberated it. (there is a bbc series about it!) So, I guess that when it comes to violence and death, they figured I'd already heard about worse from him.

Though I bloody well hate kiddy movies where animals die. The classic, find a wounded animal, make friends, evil hunter/otheranimal murders it. Animals dying doesn't teach kids about 'the harsh facts of life' thats what pets are for. Its just cruel and heart wrenching and I REFUSE to show my kids any movies/books like that lol.

@Bisky Your aunt had good intuitions :P

I also sent you a private message... I really, but REALLY want to know! :P

There was a discussion about those words in the group Some like it hot. I can't say if they are still talking about it as I just get their messages once a day in a bunch and I never take time to read them anymore but anyway, I agree with you, the real words are too crude. I have seen my share of them, and still, I too shy away from these. My eyes go wide every time, and I am 54 FGS! (are initial permitted?) :p

I think violence isn't too bad as long as you don't make the people doing it look like heroes and good guys. It's ok to make the children realize that some situations can be dangerous. It makes them more careful to avoid them.

As for the Holocaust, when I was born, that was still fresh in everyone's memory. Television had plenty of movies about both (along with cowboys killing Indians etc). There wasn't any censure on them. I also remember crying when the horses would die. I didn't care about the cowboy sitting on it. /blush

Hey there will never be any hurt animals in my books lol I can't stands it lol. Grandad used to tell me things though that I've only recently seen in media. A little harsher to hear and see. Nightmarish.

Whats FGS? :p I like the internet shortenings such as da'fuq? It just seems cuter :p

And I agree iwht violence and heroism. I never had the desire to jump off anything like some kids, I think its because all the heros in my stories got the stuffing kicked out of them all the time.

BTW I sent you such a looooong explination. Sorry :p

Well when I mean not to make them heroes I meant the evil killers. I don't have anything against, Batman, Superman, Spiderman, Thor, Iron Man and the likes.
It was meant for guys like the Silence of the Lamb's Hannibal.

Haha you know I have a friend who saw that film when he was too young. I think I might have a different opinion if my parents had let me see something more crazy when I was younger.

I was thinking about it today, s'why I came back to this thread.

I think the most disturbing thing from my childhood was that bloody Penguin from Wallace and Gromit

(Think I'm gonna move this thread to All things Writing G.G because I'd like to see if anyone else has any opinions on it)

I figure violence, sex, and language are determined by who tells the story and what the story is. If parents did their jobs we wouldn't need advisories.

"If parents did their jobs we wouldn't need advisories."

Boom. Well said.