The 1700-1939 Book Club! discussion

This is for the discussion of The Buccaneers by Edith Wharton (Book 2).

I just finished this part of the book. I thought it was more than a bit long-winded. I will admit that since it is an audiobook, I wasn't listening the whole time. The part that I liked best was when the duke meets Nan. He appreciates her for who she is and immediately likes her because she has no interest in his title.

I did not find Part II long-winded. It is a bit subtle in places. I started re-reading it yesterday, and found I was picking up things this time that went past me on the first reading.

Two years have passed since the events of Part I. Once again, the scene is set for us through the eyes of an older woman. This time it is Jacky March, an American who was once engaged to marry a British Lord, but he jilted her at the last minute. Jacky stayed on in London, rather than return to New York, because she found life in London so much more exciting.

At Miss Testvalley's suggestion, the American girls have come to England for a London Season. Miss Testvalley has come to pay a call on Jacky March. Despite her past embarrassment, Miss March has many social connections and is in a position to help the girls get started, socially, in London. The chat between the two women is interrupted when Lady Brightlingsea comes to call. (We are told at some point that her name is pronounced "Brittlesea.") Lady B. is the mother of Lord Richard, and is also, therefore, Conchita's mother-in-law. We learn that Richard and Conchita are in financial difficulties, because Conchita's step-father has failed to come through with the promised settlement, and has now even cut off Conchita's allowance. The couple has been forced to let their London home for the Season and move in with Richard's family.

The girls are two years older now, and Nan is "out." Virginia is a great beauty. The Helmsworth girls have come to England with them, Lizzie and her younger sister, Mabel.

Do the girls seem to have matured any? Are they ready for a London Season? Is London ready for them?

Joanne wrote: "I just finished this part of the book. I thought it was more than a bit long-winded. I will admit that since it is an audiobook, I wasn't listening the whole time. The part that I liked best was..."

I like the Duke a lot because he's so unpretentious. The scene where he meets Nan is very romantic.

Book II follows Miss Testvalley to London, and introduces Miss March, her fellow American friend. The novel presents more suitors – Guy Thwarte, Duke of Tintagel, and Lord Seadown, for the young ladies we were introduced to in Book I. The ladies begin to be aware of the rivalry among them, notably between Lizzie Elmsworth and Virginia St. George in their desire for the Lord’s admiration. The suitors are introduced in the context of their struggle between the love of their choice, such as Lord Seadown’s engagement to Virginia St. George, and the social pressure on them to marry English women from suitable families. We continue to observe the foolishness of the rich as illustrated by Mrs. Brightlingsea’s view that Brazil is a state in the U.S., and the Marquess’s inability to recall his own engagement to Jacky March.

My favorite of the suitors is Duke of Tintagel, for his simple enjoyment of life, in spite of the pressures that come with his role. He seems to be a naturally happy, uncomplicated character whose appreciation for the small task of clock maintenance shows a humble side. He seeks a similar-minded bride, and has been unable to find her yet. He develops a strong interest in Nan, whom he reluctantly accepts as his preference for a wife. He remains conflicted between the pressures upon him and his attraction to the American woman he loves.

Idina Churt is an embittered character who presents the young women with a challenging attitude towards their naivete and future happiness. Although her negativity is overshadowed by the happy circumstances at her cottage, she belittles Virginia upon the announcement of her engagement to Lord Seadown, and embarrasses her with rash comments that reveal the jealousy resulting from her affair with the Lord.

Casceil wrote: "Do the girls seem to have matured any?"

Young Nan's is still the most prominent voice among the young girls. The suitors Guy Thwarte and Duke of Tintagel both find her childish view of the world refreshing in contrast to the pressures on them. She still views the older girls from a distance, and is in no hurry to grow up.

In my opinion, the London season is a step in the girls' maturing process, but we won't see them more grown up as a group until Books III and IV.

The scene where Nan has her first conversation with the Duke is in Chapter 16. (In my copy, it appears at pp. 146-153.) This is one of my favorite scenes in the book. The Duke is charmed by the fact that, despite having met him once before, Nan completely missed the fact that he is a Duke. By the end of the chapter, when he has walked Nan most of the way back to the Inn, and Miss Testvalley, seeing him in the distance, informs Nan that he is the Duke of Tintagel, Nan is still not impressed. Nan tells Miss Testvalley that she thinks "that the Duke's one of the stupidest young men I ever met."

Does it look like there is much of a future for these two as a couple?

April commented a while back about the embittered Idina Churt belittling Virginia and embarrassing Lord Seadown. This is a wonderful scene in Chapter XVII. Lizzy turns the scene into a triumph for Virginia and Seadown. Mr. Robinson is very impressed with Lizzy's resourcefulness, and with the way she backs her friend Virginia against a common enemy. Mr. Robinson is surprised that Lady Churt didn't "keep her head" better, but reflects, "what fools the cleverest of them can be . . . ." (p. 171).

This scene is one of the more dramatic skirmishes between the American "buccaneers" and British nobility.

One more scene I wanted to comment on--at pp. 129-130, Chapter XIV, Miss Testvalley explains to Nan why it was improper for one of their guests to ask if he might bring his sister (a divorced woman) to visit. She explains that a divorced woman "is cast out by good society."

I really enjoyed the humor of the culture clash between the Americans and the English within this book. In this way it makes me think of Henry James, who having spent much time both in America and England often writes about the culture differences between the two and how the two perceive each other.

It was amusing seeing that the English were unable to distinguish between North America and South America, and the presumption that the American's learned archery from the Indians.

While in the one since I do like the way in which the Duke of Tintagel is unpretentiousness about his title as a duke, and does not in fact want to be sought out because of it, on the other hand he does strike me as rather dull and perhaps a bit too simple. He is not particularly witty or intellectually inclined, as well as still being a mama's boy. I don't see him as being a good match for Nan, because I think he would ultimately bore her, for he himself seems to lack any real imagination.

He does lack imagination. When he consults Miss Testvalley about Nan, she warns him that Nan is still growing up, and may become very different in a couple of years.

Many of us were amused by Lady Brightlingsea’s belief that Brazil is a state in the U.S. Just for fun, here is a link to the results when modern-day Brits were asked to label maps of the United States.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/robinedds/its...

Lest any Americans begin to feel smug, here is a link to maps on which Americans attempted to identify countries in Europe.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/summeranne/am...

Casceil wrote: "Many of us were amused by Lady Brightlingsea’s belief that Brazil is a state in the U.S. Just for fun, here is a link to the results when modern-day Brits were asked to label maps of the United Sta..."

Those are great!

I agree that Lord Tintagel doesn't seem like the best match. Maybe things will change in a couple of years. Of course Guy Thwarte will be back then too. I thought it was funny (shallow?) how the Elmsworth girls saw the St. George girls going to the Queens Drawing room and while Lizzy was jealous and didn't seem to like them she decided to team up with the girls to help her status in London society.

Casceil wrote: "Many of us were amused by Lady Brightlingsea’s belief that Brazil is a state in the U.S. Just for fun, here is a link to the results when modern-day Brits were asked to label maps of the United Sta..."

Awesome! I like that we fit all of the 'old people' into a little corner of Florida! :P