The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

For the week of November 4th- November 10th, we are reading Part Two - 6. A Country of Defiles - "They Shot the Little Son of a Bitch," "This Is the Hand of God," Part Three - 7. Casablanca - The Ice-Cream Front, and Speedy Valley of the book - An Army At Dawn..

The ninth week's reading assignment is:

Week Nine - November 4th - November 10th
Part Two - 6. A Country of Defiles - "They Shot the Little Son of a Bitch," "This Is the Hand of God," 7. Casablanca - The Ice-Cream Front, and Speedy Valley - pages 250 - 279

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on September 9th.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, local bookstore or on your Kindle. Make sure to pre-order now if you haven't already.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Bentley will be leading this discussion and back-up will be Assisting Moderators Christopher and Jerome.

Welcome,

~Bryan

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Rick Atkinson

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Introduction Thread:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary:

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

Glossary - Part One - https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary - Part Two - https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Glossary - Part Three - https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Bibliography:

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in his research or in his notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

by Rick Atkinson

Chapter Overviews and Summaries

Part Two

6. A Country of Defiles

"They Shot the Little Son of a Bitch"

Plans for rest and reaction for the Allied troops are cancelled.

Admiral Darlan is killed by Fernand Bonnier de la Chapelle. Eisenhower learned of the assassination, and wondered if his death will cause more problems than solving others.

Longstop Hill falls to the Germans on Christmas Day.

Part Two

6. A Country Of Defiles

"This Is the Hand of God"

Eisenhower has a Christmas Eve dinner in good spirits. He attended Darlan's funeral, while Bonnier was quickly executed for the crime.

The Anglo-American military alliance was straining. The British called the Americans amateurs. The American First Division was sitting idle in Oran, but one battalion did fight at Longstop. The British called the devision inept, so General Terry Allen investigated what happened.

The report came back that the division was not inept, and he took General Allrey, but Allen decided not to forward the report up the command structure.

With the Allied effort in Tunisia stalled, the campaign was endangered to become one of attrition like in the First World War.

The Americans were improving; they were getting more experience, becoming more immune to the horrors of battle. Eisenhower planned to focus on southern Tunisia.

Part Three

7. Casablanca

Ice-Cream Front

FDR began his long, secretive voyage to Casablanca (Anfa) for a conference with the British on the future of the war.

General Patton was in charge of preparation for the conference, and he hated his job. He wanted to be at the front, commanding men, but instead, he took out his frustrations out on his superiors and his staff.

On January 9, 1943, the American military chiefs arrived at Anfa that included Admiral King and General George Marshall. Churchill arrived soon after with a plan. He still did not want a cross English Channel invasion, but keep pushing in the Mediterranean. This region was crucial for British interests. Churchill would lobby FDR, while his officers would lobby the American military leaders.

Speedy Valley

With the Battle of Tunis stalled, Eisenhower developed Operation SATIN. The Allies would head to Gabes in Southern Tunisia with the hopes in preventing Rommel to link up with General Arnin as General Montgomery attacked.

However, supplies were a real problem for the Allies, and Eisenhower set up a forward command that he never went to. Instead, General Lucian Truscott worked out of the office and he did not have the respect needed to get things done like Eisenhower.

General Lloyd Fredendall would command the II Corp in this operation. Engineers at his headquarters at Speedy Valley built tunnels, sending a message of entrenchment rather than attack. To make things worse, Fredendall's armored division commander, General Orlando Ward, disliked Fredendall.

Do you think General Allen did the right thing about sitting on the report of the Big Red One?

Ok, I had to share this quote with the group:

"While working in Washington, he [General Orlando Ward] had often visited the National Zoo to study the monkeys on the theory that their behavior would illuminate that of the primates in the War Department." (p. 279, paperback)

What are your thoughts about Churchill's position on focusing on the Mediterranean? Why would the Americans follow?

Atkinson writes, "The Middle Sea was critical to British imperial fortunes in Egypt, the Middle East, and and; Churchill also deemed it the Axis's most vulnerable point." (p. 279 paperback)

Bryan wrote: "What are your thoughts about Churchill's position on focusing on the Mediterranean? Why would the Americans follow?

Atkinson writes, "The Middle Sea was critical to British imperial fortunes in E..."

I think Churchill was re-fighting World War I when the Ottoman empire was an enemy and the Med was at least something other than the the Trenches of Flanders. I think the Americans went along mainly to get to the army fighting somewhere in the European Theater not only to gain experience but to demonstrate reliability for the Soviet Union.

That quote made me laugh Bryan.

Well said, Patricrk. Churchill grew up as a son of imperialism, so his whole thought process revolves around the safety of the British Empire. I don't think America was in a position yet to defy those plans.

So much is going on here but I will comment on msg 8 by Bryan. I absolutely agree that Churchill was only focused on the British Empire and the war in Europe at this time. If the Allies were to fail in Africa and Europe England would again be sitting there across the channel from Nazi controlled France.

A side comment about the "subtle racism" of the times was (pg 265 para 2 of paperback) that the porters and waiters on the Presidential train were replaced by "Filipino mess stewards from the White House" - Hmmmm were there only Filipino mess stewards in the White House during this time?

I know African-Americans were there, but why bring Filipino stewards, not sure.

Bryan wrote: "I know African-Americans were there, but why bring Filipino stewards, not sure."

Well I think at that time the "mess stewards" in the White House were only Filipinos and that is what I meant by racism. I assume they were brought due to their experience with proto-call and the expectations of the President as they dealt with him daily.

Makes sense to me