SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

You need to quit. This is a good time of year for it. Go away for the holiday, and do other stuff! Do not try and write something new. Let the well refill. Go and knit a sweater, or learn how to bake croissant from scratch -- something entirely different. Give it a rest until the new year.

I recently released my third self-published novel, and I have a lot of other things I've written that are waiting to be edited and released or that I've posted on a fanfiction site. I catch myself doing this too, but I've learned to stop and not stress out about it.

I think this is very common. My experience is that writers who have any consciousness of quality at all are their own worst critics (as opposed to the writers who think that everything they write is automatically gold). There have actually been studies showing an effect (forgot what it's called) that people who see more faults in their work and are less convinced of their capabilities are actually more skilled than people who are more confident and see fewer faults. We want things to be perfect - but in writing, once you have the necessary grammar/spelling/punctuation down (and this can even vary based on individual style) and have made sure your character who is blond in chapter 1 isn't a redhead in chapter 7 (unless they dyed their hair!) and mistakes like that, quality is pretty subjective and there's no such thing as perfect. There are maybe dozens of good ways to write the same sentence, and hundreds of good way to write the same novel. You could do a re-write (not that I'm recommending this!) but what you would have is just a *different* version of your work and not a *better* version. And then you would be thinking of other ways it could be "better" (aka different).

As a reader, I think most readers care more about if you've told a good, compelling story that's readable than if every single word and sentence is the epitome of perfection.

If you really think there are true weaknesses with your book, try handing it over to an objective reader whom you trust and get their honest opinion. I wouldn't rely on a professional editor alone; anyone can call themselves a professional editor regardless of qualifications or skills, and even if you get one with qualifications and skills, they might not have been the right fit for your and your book.

Anyway, sorry for rambling, my suggestion would be get an objective opinion on your work, if corrections are necessary make them, and then move on to the next book.

Remember the old saying, Perfect is the enemy of good, and (my own addition) perfect is the enemy of getting anything else done.

Adam wrote: "Having recently self-published my first ever eBook and after years of confidence and faith in my writing and storytelling, I'm finding myself plagued by crushing self doubt and a complete loss of f..."

Adam, I can sympathize fully with your case. My native language is French and the first reader comment I got on the first novel I published online (in English) on Free-eBooks.net basically said that my written English sucked and that my novel was not ready for publication. Funnily, the next reader comment said that it was a great, entertaining story. Since then, the eight ebooks I have published online have garnered an average of over 90% 'like' ratings on Free-eBooks.net and a 4.5 stars average on Goodreads.com. Some people still diss my written English, while many more others love my books. One reader from England (a Goodreads.com member) actually wrote to me that my written English is actually better than that of the large majority of Englishmen he knew. So, my advice is to let your first book go with the flow and let your readers decide (as an average) how good it is. In the meantime, think over what kind of story you want to write next, start fleshing up your plot and let your fingers do their trick. You will always have a few critiques (often people who have never written any books) but don't let them kill your desire to write. Foremost, if you truly love writing, then continue to do so. At the least, you will be able to say that you did something that you loved.

Good luck with your next books. regards.

Quite a few authors agonize over their work, Adam. I'm volunteer editing for a few beginners, and part of my job is to let them throw sentences and paragraphs at me, to discuss, hash over, then fix. Then, when they see print, they eventually see that people actually like what they've written, and want more. Don't quit now! Just take a breather & get some reader feedback.

So far, I like the characters you've developed, the site description is interesting, but I'm a bit bogged down in the language. Of course, I'm only on page 37, and adjusting to the rhythm of your writing. After the sparse, terse prose of some I've read lately, yours is lush and luxuriant in usage.
Now I'm going back to my Kobo mini, where I've stashed "Skoll". So far, interesting, Adam.

Adam, I'm not sure its possible to ever really let go. I've edited stories, vetted through my writing group, edited again, set them to an editor, and then edited again - and still found things to change...At some point you have to let go. The key (I guess) is finding balance between giving something your all and not over tweaking it to the point you kill it. Taking breaks form a work can be good to get another perspective an feedback from trusted readers/editors (usually not friends or family) may help.

However, I do know what you mean when you feel that once you put something out there you are sort of stuck with it--and what if its not your best or subpar? That can gnaw at you, but you have to let it go.

I'm not sure if this is true, but I've heard others comment that nowadays your not necessarily going to just publish one thing and get famous or die on the vine (though it can happen). I think that self-published authors can be judged more on their body of work. Probably a lot of readers won't even check out a self-published author until they see a number of efforts out there and see some reviews.

I'm not saying you should rush out and put any old crap out there, but if you can establish a neutral source vetting process it should give you some more confidence. Then try to make progress and build on what you've already accomplished. Plus there's always new story lines and new genres to try. Who knows what will click with people and when you'll strike a chord.

I think the world is full of plenty of artists who don't start out with a big splash.

Work on your vetting process and build trust with that.

Hope that helps,

-Ryan Sean O'Reilly

Adam,

I think what you're feeling is completely normal. You obviously care very deeply about your work, which is why you feel the desire to go back and improve it. I know - I've self-published a number of titles, and I care very much about the quality of the writing I present to readers. The urge to fix things, to go back and revise, is not an easy one to dismiss. What I like to do is to channel that energy into the next book or story.

It's kind of like children, I guess. You can spend years raising them, but at some point you have to let go. But I like the fact that you care about your writing. There are people who will just churn out fluff without any care as to the quality of it. It's good to see someone who gives a damn (this site is full of people who give a damn, which is great).

Best of luck.

- L. G. Estrella

Ryan wrote: "Adam, I'm not sure its possible to ever really let go. I've edited stories, vetted through my writing group, edited again, set them to an editor, and then edited again - and still found things to change...At some point you have to let go. The key (I guess) is finding balance between giving something your all and not over tweaking it to the point you kill it. "

This is very true. I had one novel that I kept going over and over, "polishing" it, and kept thinking there were things I needed to change and that it wasn't good enough, mainly with wording and sentence structure, extra words and details that according to the "rules" were unnecessary, that kind of thing. I finally sent the manuscript out to some beta readers and got their feedback - mainly on plot and character issues from the reader point of view - and sat down to work on it with fresh eyes.

What I found when I tried to re-read it was that the prose was bland and mushy and boring. I ended up doing an "un-revision" pass to rewrite the prose so it was more spontaneous and had more "me" in it. After that, it reads so much more lively and interesting. So it is possible to revise and edit the life out of something.

Make sure your plot makes sense, there aren't any plot holes, your characters and world are well-developed and consistent, and your prose is readable (correct spelling/grammar/punctuation/word usage), and then let it go. It'll be fine.

Adam wrote: "Having recently self-published my first ever eBook and after years of confidence and faith in my writing and storytelling, I'm finding myself plagued by crushing self doubt and a complete loss of f..."

It's quite a tricky thing. My first book was an eBook, and the publisher is now converting it for paper printing (very exciting moment!) but I have to proofread it.

I learnt so much during the publishing process and by writing the second book, that I desperately want to edit it by tightening up the prose. But that's not what I'm meant to be doing. It's difficult, but I am restricting myself to checking for typos and misplaced words. Much as I'd like to do a bit more work on it, I've had to say "It is what it is." And make the second one better.

Perhaps that's where you're at. Maybe you need to say very firmly to yourself that you must not look at the book! Then go and do something completely different. Perhaps mentally close the book and shelve it, and then walk out of your mental library (shutting the door behind you) and find a nice, clean, blank piece of paper.

Although I do like Brenda's idea! Have a holiday!

The great Michael Swanwick has a good word for young writers: guard your head. Art is like golf -- there is an emotional component. Play a good mental game, to ensure your productivity and sanity.
Do not let the cray-cray get you. You hear of loony genius writers. But you do not really want to be Ernest Hemingway, battling depression with booze until he blew his brains out, or Emily Dickinson, pathologically unable to go outdoors, or Charles Dickens, running a second wife and family on the side. You will be far more productive if you are sane, and you will be tons happier.
And as to rewriting: books are like chewing gum. You can chew that Doublemint until it loses all its flavor and starts to crumble between your teeth. Don't do that.

This is what I mean: http://www.forbes.com/sites/cherylsna...

Recharging may be wise.

Or doing only writing that's practice not for real.

There is a quote by Paul Valery, "An artist never really finishes his work, he merely abandons it." I know I felt this way, too. It took me three years to finish my first novel, because I must have revised it nearly a dozen times. I finally decided that I had to let it go. There has been a temptation to revisit it once again. To forestall that, I seized on a moment of catharsis and copyrighted it with the Library of Congress. (You can do this through their web site.) Once this process is completed, you cannot revise their edition. This is an inexpensive rite in which you can say goodbye to what you have done and move on to what you will do.

R. wrote: "There is a quote by Paul Valery, "An artist never really finishes his work, he merely abandons it."..."

That's the quote I had in mind reading this thread (although I think it's usually attributed to Leonardo da Vinci). Taking a few months' break before the editing is always a good move.

Something else to consider is that a writer is developing his or her craft all the time. If you go through a steep learning curve whilst writing a novel you're bound to pick faults with it when you revisit it. I went through the 'crushing self-doubt' thing myself and learning the craft took the writing of several early novels that I know will never be fit for publication.

In music production, we say "Best is the enemy of Good". In other words, it is better to release a piece that is well done but imperfect than never to release it at all because it remains infinitesimally shy of perfection no matter how many reworks it goes through.

In writing I find the same is true.

Edit: I see Kyra said this too!

In technical writing I had to learn "good enough" and let go. My mentors pointed out that the writing could always be improved but at some point you have to ship product. It helped me over the years to keep that in mind no matter what kind of writing I'm doing.

Here is something I wrote to help a friend hit publish and let go:
No book is ever perfect
No piece of art is ever perfect
No meal I cook is ever perfect
But at some point we have to eat...

I had an interesting experience lately. I went through two rounds of editing with my editor, and then the publisher formatted my novel for publication. When she sent me the preliminary pdf to proofread one last time, it was, of course, in different font and format than the doc file my editor and I worked with. And suddenly I could see flaws I didn't see before. My editor missed them too. Small stuff - extraneous adverbs, wrong words, awkward sentences. It was a lesson. We should all try to change fonts during the editorial process and see what jumps at us. Very useful.

That is a favorite old trick. The other trick is to read the work aloud. Even if it's just to yourself (of course a listener is good too) you will hear where it's wrong.

Here's a trick that I've found very helpful: have your computer read the text aloud. If you've got a mac, it's actually relatively straightforward. Highlight the text in something like Safari and just use control + click and tell it to read.

The computer makes absolutely no attempt to try and spice things up, so you can really tell if parts of the text are just clunky or unexciting. It's also great for picking up typos since our minds tend to just auto-correct small typos while the computer won't do anything like that. It's been a great help for me.

I don't think my computer can read aloud, but I'll keep it in mind for when I get a new one. I agree, it might be very useful. Reading aloud myself can help too, but I can't speak aloud for very long; my throat wouldn't want to, but a computer speaker doesn't get tired, right?

Olga wrote: "I don't think my computer can read aloud, but I'll keep it in mind for when I get a new one. I agree, it might be very useful. Reading aloud myself can help too, but I can't speak aloud for very lo..."

I've lectured in university before. My longest lecture went for more than two hours. I knew the content well and was confident, but I was still absolutely exhausted. Talking is surprisingly tiring, especially if you have to project your voice at the same time. We used to have a rule, actually, that no lecturer should ever give more than three hours of lectures in one day. It's just too hard on your voice. But yeah, computers don't get tired. They don't complain if you ask them to reread the same passage ten times either.

But your earlier suggestion with the font is a good one. I've only just realised that I do that quite by accident and that it's been working well for me (I write up in Word and use a few other programs to pull eBooks together since Word spits out hideous html if you tell it to save a document as html). I can't help but think that certain fonts make it easier to spot typos as well. The monospaced fonts (e.g., Courier) in which every letter takes up the same space make it really easy to detect omitted or added letters.

Just want to agree with those who suggested having your computer read it aloud. I think Adobe has this feature. I have a Mac and I can do it in Word. It's amazing the things it will catch, although the computer voice gets on my nerves after a while and mispronounces a lot of my character names.

And I think your feelings are quite normal, as you can tell from all the comments here. I can't read my published book. I'm such a perfectionist and I think, if only I'd done X instead of Y. But at some point you have to let go and move on and focus on making the next book even better than the last.

Changing font and having the computer read to you are both good ways to catch micro flaws. I think a good way to evaluate macro flaws is to put the work away for six months and forget about it.

There is no Muse standing over you with a shotgun, prying the manuscript from your cold, dead fingers. I know this sounds harsh, but the motivation to create is self-feeding. If your creativity requires incentive, then you've killed your Muse and need to find a new medium.

I can't agree more!

Your feelings are normal, and as others have said in other ways, the only perfect novel is an unpublished novel. (I stole that from some blog I read recently.)

Cindy wrote: "Just want to agree with those who suggested having your computer read it aloud. I think Adobe has this feature. I have a Mac and I can do it in Word. It's amazing the things it will catch, although..."

I actually find it kind of hilarious listening to my Mac try to figure out how to pronounce a character's name. Since I often dabble in fantasy, this can lead to some surprisingly weird-sounding attempts. On the upside, the computer will almost always use the same weird pronunciation, so you can catch typos like that too.

Never had a computer read anything to me. I think that would have me running. I do read my work out aloud but I did a lot of acting and public speaking so am used to it and do find it helps with grammar, but the flow of a piece comes with the editing.

How you achieve that is up to you but everyone is different, and there are many writers who finish a book and swear never again...

and then again.

:)

There is however a valuable feedback that you can get from reading the work aloud yourself, to a live audience. Long car journeys are good for this, because your audience is more or less captive. The reactions of listeners is invaluable.
When I was writing REVISE THE WORLD we were driving to the beach, so I took the opportunity to read the first couple chapters aloud to my husband as he drove. The kids sat in back, and my daughter was reading HARRY POTTER. I read the first chapter out loud and then looked back, and my daughter had quit reading Harry and was listening instead!

I like reading my work aloud. My only problem is that the mind is very good at automatically fixing mistakes and correcting typos. A computer lacks the ability to do either.

That said, reading it aloud yourself does give you the chance to work on the rhythm of a piece, which can be very important.

Move on to the next project. Then the next, etc.

Adam wrote: "Update -

Thanks for everyone's support and advice. Your kind words and insights became the catalyst for my second wind.

Since posting i have started writing again, downloaded and started using N..."

Excellent news Adam! Have fun!