All About Books discussion

Definitely, Leslie :)

I'm way behind - only half way through but am constantly surprised by the pace with which I read an episode, compelled by the breathless conversational story-telling.

Did Dickens write at a good lick - the spirit and brio of it suggests he did?

You can just imagine waiting for the next episodes to be issued, can't you?

Enjoying it far more than when I last read it (nearly fifty years ago!).

Jean wrote: "I know. I feel very ashamed of myself :( I must have been young and foolish!! LOL

The star rating was from memory - and I think I must have "rushed at it" to be honest! It is long, isn't it? It ge..."

Ahhh Jean you finished it !! I am going to be done on Tuesday as planned it has been wonderful and the last 2 I read are amongst the best yet.

John - me too as you'll have maybe seen from my original star rating.

And yes, he did certainly write at a freakishly fast rate (I posted the original schedule of issues in comment 42.) And in my review I mention the other things that were going on in his life at the same time...and that The Pickwick Papers overlaps with Oliver Twist, which started to be serialised before Pickwick finished. Wow!

It's so great to have fellow enthusiasts, thank to you both, and everyone earlier, for your comments. Keep them coming :)

Jean - thank you. Wow, indeed!

Tracey - Which were the 2 "5* plus" chapters you've just read?

Good morning Jean
Those 2 chapters were in my book 47 and 48.
47 is where Pickwick goes to appease messrs Allen and Sawyer over Mr Winkles marriage to Arabella and 48 is The Bagmans ghost story of the mail coaches which was brilliantly told :)
My copy has 801 pages Jean but the text is very small.

Gosh it must be minute print, yes! Although mine is larger print, the book itself is oversize so it often ends up about the same number of pages.

Those two chapters were so great. I went along with "The Bagman's Ghost Story" all unknowing and then laughed out loud at the last comment!! :D

Ha Ha 'Dead letters' of course :)

The role of the physical book in the pleasure of reading is an interesting one, isn't it?

My version is an unread American Doubleday slightly oversize edition of 1944. Two colour leather (?) boards. It's exactly 2inches (5cms) thick, but only 687 pages, with a very readable-sized print. Small margins and fairly close line-spacing on thick but light wavy-edged paper. It's a pleasure to hold and read. £1 second-hand!

Usually my classic books are small Worlds Classics, Nelson, Everyman versions, handy for the pocket but hard on the eyes!

Sounds lovely, John! Much nicer than the small ones you mention. In fact that series might well be what I have a close-up detail of as my Facebook "cover" picture on my profile page!

I have a lot of the Heron "Centennial" edition of Dickens - beautiful dark green imitation leather with gold tooling and ribbon bookmark. Original illustrations. I haven't a hope of reading them, but when I tried to get rid of them earlier this year (to clear the space) I found I just couldn't!!

I also love my facsimile first edition of "Our Mutual Friend". When I bought that years ago at an antiquarian bookshop called "Boz" in Hay-on-Wye, I had the option of buying either that, or the actual first edition! (I think it was about £50. Not much really I suppose.) I found I really couldn't justify the expense though and was quite happy with the facsimile!

Tracey has a really nice cloth-bound version I think :)

By the way John, I hope there have been no more disastrous pudding incidents to lay at Dickens's and my door! LOL

No more pudding incidents thank you - I've been relegated to heating the meals already prepared by Hilary, ready for her return from work two days a week!

Yes, the Heron ones are good and comprehensive - I have three of them only - Miscellaneous Papers I and II, and Reprinted Papers, lots of which are from Household Words, All The Year Round, and The Examiner.

Illustrations: my nice Pickwick has NO illustrations dammit, and my lovely small flexible old (no date on it) green-bound Collins Library of Classics Our Mutual Friend has a few awful illustrations, far removed from the brilliant originals (which I've just seen one of by sampling a Kindle version on the Amazon web-site. By Marcus Stone, it says, whose name I've never come across before, ashamed to say.)

We're there copyright problems with illustrations, or did tastes just change, do you think. Such a shame.

I meant 'we're there ...', of course!

No, I meant - were there. This iPad won' let me write were unless I wrestle with it!

LOL David!

Marcus Stone rings a bell.. probably in that connection. I too look at the illustrations online (and sometimes share them on Facebook.) I like David Perdue's page. He sets it out like a newspaper of the time!

Would you believe I too used to have copies of those Heron books?! I used to have them all, but a few years ago decided all I really wanted to keep was the novels. Now I think I will have a look for the others again. They're usually only £2 or £3 in charity shops as, although they are nice-looking books they aren't valuable.

Yes, it's an interesting question about copyright for the illustrations. And I'll tell you something really strange - a bit of an anomaly:

All my Heron Dickens novels have the original format and illustrations. They were proud of it. EXCEPT, for some reason, for "Great Expectations"! I always wondered why that had illustrations evidently from much later.

Then one day I happened to see another Heron copy of "Great Expectations" which belonged to their "Literary Heritage" collection (one novel per author - dark blue binding) in a charity shop. Bought it. And yes, it has the originals!!

How very odd! Maybe they were only allowed to use them for one version? What sense does that make? So I have a row of green ones - and one blue! I care more about the illustrations than to match them.

Thanks Lynne and I agree about "Barnaby Rudge". Good in places as I remember.

You know I too remember first being allowed into the "big library" which seemed so impressive. And I too chose a novel by Charles Dickens, some "Sherlock Holmes" short stories and... a mystery by Agatha Christie!

When I arrived home (yes, children were allowed to walk quite a long way on their own in those days) a friend of my parents told me rather snootily that 2 of my choices were much better than the third. I think my parents were just pleased I was reading! LOL

Please do join in whenever you fancy a reread Lynne! I'll be starting "Oliver Twist" at the beginning of March - if I can bear to wait that long!

And I posted my review of "The Pickwick Papers" here

Please do, Lynne :)

Isn't that odd? I have the exact opposite memory - I was taught that using a "z" was incorrect unless you were American! I must confess to always using an "s" still, although I know that both are correct.

Another thing I'm actually consciously trying to change is using an extra "s" after the possessive if the word ends in "s" already. I was taught that "Dickens' work" was the correct form, and "Dickens's work" incorrect. But New Hart's Rules: The Handbook of Style for Writers and Editors I think it is, says the opposite.

Yes, Oliver Twist is often badly chopped about when it's dramatised. I like the Alan Bleasdale dramatisation from 1999 because he included so much more, and extrapolated the back story from the information in the novel about Oliver's half-brother. Two hours of back story before starting the novel...

Link to wiki here if you've never seen it.

Not at all Lynne! It was hardly a rant, and just the sort of thing I wonder myself...

If you look at any old English dictionary (I'm looking at a 1940s Oxford one), you'll find that z is always the spelling given for realize and similar words, with no s variant mentioned. I always wondered whether the advent of crosswords made a change (zeds being more difficult for the compiler), but I'm sure that must be hooey!

That's even more puzzling then, John. My primary school education was in the late 50's early 60's and definitely taught us that "z" was incorrect English usage. Yet my parents must have resisted the idea, and I'm surprised I don't remember that.

I know they had no truck with a teacher who thought that "Celtic legends" was pronounced "Seltic legends" LOL!

There are whole Societies of enthusiasts devoted to just this sort of conundrum, but I think I'll keep it as an interesting thought now and then and stick to reading Dickens :)

Jean - yes, I agree!

But what I do hate is the spelling 'cozy', but that is just a real transatlantic difference, I suppose, and for the Mystery Group! And there's also the Oxford comma, as in Trains, Boats, and Planes. I like it, personally.

But 'enough', I hear you cry. Back to Dickens .....

Not especially wanting the last word on this, John, except to say "Yes!" I hate that particular spelling too for some reason!! Mostly I don't mind, just noticing without judging. Especially since I'm not at all sure I'm in the "right", from what you two have said, as I always use the "s"!

But where are you up to now? Have you, like I did, noticed a slight difference in "feel" after his beloved sister-in-law Mary died in real life?

Oh don't get me onto the Oxford comma! No, I don't use it...

OK, Dickens only. No, I'm only about to start Bardell v Pickwick (ch 34), whereas you're talking about ch 39, I think. I'll watch out for it.

Hey Jean, are you starting Oliver Twist soon? I got an audiobook edition of that last summer & so would like to join you in revisiting this...

I'm trying to do one every other month, so it should be March if I can wait that long! Lynne (currently comment 118) might reread it and Tracey might too. It would be lovely if you could also read it then Leslie :)

Who is the reader? I once heard Martin Jarvis read it all and he was brilliant. He has so many different voices, so is just perfect for reading Dickens.

John - yes, the end of chapter 39. Then there was no issue in the May.

Jean wrote: "I'm trying to do one every other month, so it should be March if I can wait that long! Lynne (currently comment 118) might reread it and Tracey might too. It would be lovely if you could also read ..."

Mine is Simon Vance, who also is good at doing different voices. I will pencil it in for March then - I am looking forward to it!

Lovely :)

It's three weeks until I can start reading another Dickens' novel!!

Yesterday (7th February) was Charles Dickens's birthday in 1882. He died at the age of 58 saying that he wanted "no monument, memorial or testimonial".

Possibly because of this, there has not been a fullsize statue of him in Britain - until now. A statue has been unveiled in Portsmouth. Here's a link

Apparently it's now conveniently thought that he meant no memorial in his funeral arrangements! That seems a bit tenuous to me. In time it seems many people's "last wishes" get overturned.

Also now, the film of Claire Tomalin's book The Invisible Woman , about his relationship with Nelly Ternan, has gone on general release in British cinemas :)

Hello Jean aww that's a long while before your next Dickens book! Be great in the meantime to see the film though.
I really liked the monument as a work of art but feel as he didn't want one it isn't the right thing to do and it is just to boost the tourist trade.

It does seem like it Tracey - and why now? 202 years after his birth?? Maybe they intended it to be erected 2 years ago...

Laura suggested on the "this day in literary history" thread that he might have thought that his work was his testament, and I think that's probably what he would have liked us to think.

The film will help, yes. I may sneak in a short story or two I expect though :)

Jean wrote: "I may sneak in a short story or two I expect though :)"

I was just going to suggest that!

From Dickens' will:

"I emphatically direct that I be buried in an inexpensive, unostentatious and strictly private manner....

...that no public announcement be made of the time or place of my burial

...those who attend my funeral wear no scarf, black bow, long hat band or other such revolting absurdity

"I direct that my name be inscribed in plain English letters on my tomb without the addition or Mr or Esq.

"I conjure my friends on no account to make me the subject of any monument, memorial or testimonial whatever.

"I rest my claims to the remembrance of my country upon my published works."


But his descendants feel otherwise. Jane Monk, Dickens's great-great granddaughter, has visited two other statues and says, "Why should Philadelphia and Sydney have statues and not England?"

Ian Dickens, his great-great-grandson says, "I think most people are surprised there isn't a statue of him here. There are monuments, plaques and busts commemorating him all over the place, but no statue."

I suppose one could argue that the people putting up a monument now aren't his friends & get around it that way! Certainly his works have been his memorial & the fact that he is a well-known name 200 years after his birth shows that they have been a successful one! I don't really see the harm in putting up a statue myself.

In this situation people always say that we don't know how the person would now feel, and of course that is true. Did he really expect to remembered 200 years later - and to be so famous?

When I reread what Dickens actually said, it does seem as if it is a reaction to the "pomp and ceremony" of funerals of the time, which he will have thought ridiculous, and mere money-spinners leeching the money from the bereaved.

On the other hand it is very clear when he says "any memorial whatever". I'm just glad I didn't have to make the decision!

Here's another link:
Charles Dickens statue - why was his dying wish ignored?

Jean wrote: "Here's another link:
Charles Dickens statue - why was his dying wish ignored?"

Great link, Jean!

Just finished The Pickwick Papers. What a treat, plus a few tears when Mr Winkle Senior was reconciled with his son and new daughter-in-law. Softie. I wish I could eat and sleep like the Fat Boy!

So much better than I'd remembered, being a young shaver when I last read it!

Written at the age of 24: wow.

I'd no recollection that Pickwick retired to Dulwich, and spent time looking at the Dulwich Picture Gallery. I walked to school from West Norwood to Dulwich College for seven years and spent many happy hours in the school picture gallery over those years and subsequently.

Previous contributions wondered whether events in Dickens' life altered the tone of the book. I've no idea, of course, but I'd guess that the plot lines and the general shape of happy-sad-happy would have been planned from the outset, but it does get pretty bleak at the relevant part. So ...?

I'd been wondering how you were getting on with this, John. I'm so glad you enjoyed it too. Thanks for posting!

And I do agree. I noticed a definite down-turn after chapter 39 when Mary Hogarth died (the parts in the Fleet.) Much more sombre mood. If you get the chance, do watch the DVDs! I hadn't remembered it had ever been televised, but it really is well done. I was a little disappointed that they hadn't included any of the incidental stories, but can understand that some cuts had to be made! Phil Daniels was really good as Sam Weller. (More cast details, this thread post 76.)

And maybe you'd like to read my review, now you've finished it? Link here

What a great and informative review! Thank you.

I must say I thought the London dialogue pretty convincing, although I imagine the V/W element died out long ago. Things like 'arter' and 'wud', 'bit 'o beef', for after and would and a bit of beef are still heard today (and this comes from a bloke criticised by his German master for speaking with a 'sudlondonerisch' accent!).

I think you're reading Oliver Twist next. This and A Tale of Two Cities (sorry, Tracey) are my Dickens 'hates', in recollection, so it'll be good for me to try them again at the appropriate time.

John wrote: "...I think you're reading Oliver Twist next. This and A Tale of Two Cities (sorry, Tracey) are my Dickens 'hates', in recollection, so it'll be good for me to try them again at the appropriate time. ..."

My 2 favorites (along with David Copperfield)! I hope you like them better this time around.

Oliver Twist is one of my favourites, as well as great expectations.

That will be great John (and thanks for the compliment :) ) Yes, I like his Cockney accent representations, but the V/W seems to be a bugbear for some. He knew London so thoroughly though, that I'm sure he did this for comic purposes.

I don't imagine you with a London accent!! I spent most of my working career teaching in East London schools, though my accent is still flattish.

I'll be reading Oliver Twist in March, and hope some others join in. I think Leslie intends to. Maybe Tracey wouldn't take much persuading LOL! (Are you listening Tracey?)

Happy to be converted to them all!

Would it be okay if I joined in Jean in March? It might be time for a reread.

Lovely, please do, Charbel :)

Jean - difficult to put it in spelling, but I really hear the south London in me when calling one of the dogs in - Lady turns out as something like loidy or more likely laaydy. But I managed to disguise it at work! And I was always determined to keep my southern vowels working in Sheffield. Try saying Elastoplast with two long vowel sounds - that's me!

LOL good example - my pronunciation of those 2 "A"s is as flat as you'd expect, given my Sheffield origins.

Jean wrote: "That will be great John (and thanks for the compliment :) ) Yes, I like his Cockney accent representations, but the V/W seems to be a bugbear for some. He knew London so thoroughly though, that I'..."

OOhhh Jean "you are naughty but I like it" ha ha