SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Firday 29 November was C.S. Lewis' birthday. The week prior marked the 50 year anniversary of his death. Here are two articles I came across about his life and work that I thought might be of interest.

From Tor: C.S. Lewis: Moral Fantasist

From The Guardian: CS Lewis's literary legacy: 'dodgy and unpleasant' or 'exceptionally good'?

I haven't read The Chronicles of Narnia, but a friend of mine gave me Mere Christianity as part of our on going discussion about religion so I can say I've read some of his work.

C.S. Lewis certainly had a major contribution to many literary endeavours. It seems a shame that many seem to want to hide him away because of his Christian apologetics influence or so on. During his heyday he was considered one of the eminent literary critics and scholars around along with his writing and scholar friends like J.R.R Tolkien.

I loved the Narnia books until I was about nine, then I began to find them heavy-handed and obvious. I read the space trilogy in my late teens and I initially enjoyed it in context of its time but, again, That Hideous Strength ceased to be a story and became a tract.

I certainly don't hold Lewis' Christianity against him but I think the problem is one that he and Tolkien argued about; Lewis contended that the Christian message be paramount and every part of the story serve that, while Tolkien, for all his own deep belief and religiosity, put the story first.

Perhaps it is the religiosity of his books that stops me enjoying Lewis, although I don't think so. I think it is the constantly being hit over the head with obvious metaphors. I just don't think he's a very good writer, he is so very much of his time and has dated badly in such a relatively short span.

Paul 'Pezski' wrote: "I loved the Narnia books until I was about nine, then I began to find them heavy-handed and obvious. I read the space trilogy in my late teens and I initially enjoyed it in context of its time but,..."

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Although both Tolkien and Lewis were deeply religious men, Tolkien's beliefs are shown much more subtly in his work, in contrast to the hammer-like approach taken by Lewis.

I do think that Lewis is a good writer, but his style has suffered somewhat more than Tolkien's. I suppose that is likely due to a combination of his approach and Tolkien's superior technical ability.

I think The Last Battle is the one that is heaviest in the Narnia series. I happily read the others and dismiss the religious nonsense in them, they are beautiful stories.

Those who cannot see the religion in Tolkien are just not well versed in Teutonic myths. The pagan ideas around elves and what they did, dwarfs and their work etc. are numerous and detailed. Seems to me people moan about CS Lewis because Christianity is not yet an agreed myth our in human past.

The first time I read Narnia I didn't get the religious aspects at all. It was just an enjoyable story to me. It wasn't until later that I heard about Lewis' beliefs. That isn't the reason I haven't finished them though. I read the first two and they were too childish for me. Not to say I probably would've enjoyed them when I was younger. I would've. But I came to them too late. I'll probably read them all at one point though, just to know I have.

I decided to write a novel that C.S. Lewis would enjoy. In token of this the hero is named after him. Hard to say how successful I was. But when I imagine Heaven, it has a big, big BIG library, like the one in the Tuesday Next novels. So I expect that Lewis will run across it at some point. I am sure I will amuse him more than Pullman.

Thanks for posting those links, Penny. Interesting reads, particularly the second one. C. S. Lewis is one of my favorite authors - I love his style and just find him both very witty and very insightful.

I know everyone has heard of Narnia and for good reason (they are beautiful stories, regardless of whether you believe in the religious aspect of them) but I would recommend some of his less-known works.

Till We Have Faces is one of my favorite books of all time and is just a beautiful, thoughtful retelling of the Greek myth of Cupid and Psyche. But even with the Greek background, it reads more like fantasy. It's just wonderful and very few people have read it!

The Space Trilogy is also very unique and interesting. I haven't read the third book yet, and the first two can be challenging at times to get through. But if you stick with it, it's such a unique story and I love his ability to bring together Greek mythology, European literature, and Christian belief.

Finally, you all should read The Screwtape Letters! This is where the witty part comes in. Great satire, a lot of fun, and makes you examine your own life at the same time.

I know some people don't read Lewis' work because of the religious aspect, but I wouldn't let that hold you back. You don't have to believe to enjoy his stories and his sense of humor. As others have rightly pointed out, he's certainly not as subtle as Tolkien, but I do think C. S. Lewis' books can still be enjoyed in a more general, agnostic way.

Brenda wrote: "I decided to write a novel that C.S. Lewis would enjoy. In token of this the hero is named after him. Hard to say how successful I was. But when I imagine Heaven, it has a big, big BIG library, lik..."

The perfect idea of Heaven :)

I love the Screwtape Letters. I read it and listened to the John Cleese audio version. Both were great. I've read some of his Christian books and I've also read a lot of his biography books, some were a little shocking on what he reveals about his school boy days. Well worth a read.

Laura wrote: "Thanks for posting those links, Penny. Interesting reads, particularly the second one. C. S. Lewis is one of my favorite authors - I love his style and just find him both very witty and very insig..."

Oh, don't get me wrong, I never let his religious views stop me from reading his work. But I do think that at times those views might have moved him into making decision that benefits his views more than his writings.

I'm not religious, haven't gone to church in years, although, if asked I would probably answer that I have faith in something else. That being said, I am actually attracted to books that have some faith in them. Although, I don't read "religious" books. Maybe I should give Lewis another chance.

Lewis is a great -reasoner-. In Oxford they taught you by getting you to argue, and he was really really good at it.

Nienna wrote: "I'm not religious, haven't gone to church in years, although, if asked I would probably answer that I have faith in something else. That being said, I am actually attracted to books that have some ..."

Nienna, I think you'd like his book. His books to me are about him changing from an atheist to a Christian. He doesn't shake his finger at people who aren't Christians.

Laura - you aren't the only one who counts Til We Have Faces as one of her favorites. It's been a while since I read it, but that book flat out blew me away. I've actually been thinking it might be time for a reread....

Peggy wrote: "Laura - you aren't the only one who counts Til We Have Faces as one of her favorites. It's been a while since I read it, but that book flat out blew me away. I've actually been thinking it might be time for a reread....
"

Go for it, Peggy! I reread it this summer and just loved it even more than when I first read it.

I love CS Lewis. I find reading his writing such an effortless experience. His Sci-fi trilogy is one of my favourite trilogies, with such an interesting and unique take on things - particularly when you consider how long ago it was written.

Some may disagree, but I think That Hideous Strength is an excellent story. Certainly if you look for it you can see Lewis' personal views to an extent, but that would be true for nearly all authors, and you can see those views by looking at how and what they write. One of the strengths of That Hideous Strength in particular, is its commentary on reasoning, as we see one of the characters struggle with becoming "a progressive." It's a snapshot on how we can talk ourselves into believing something just because of the company around us.

I have read Out of the Silent Planet and actually liked it more than I liked the Narnia books I tried. I did find it a little confusing, and a little dry but I did love the meaning behind the book and the title. I read it years ago though, maybe I would get more out of it today.

And PERELANDRA is one of the great worldbuilding books of all time. That Lewis's Venus has been shown (by space probe exploration) to be impossible doesn't make it any less cool.

Paul 'Pezski' wrote: "I loved the Narnia books until I was about nine, then I began to find them heavy-handed and obvious."

I like them as a child, disliked them as a teen, and liked them again later.

But Till We Have Faces is his best, though I choked on it as a teen.

Isn't that funny how that works? When we're teens we're too old for childish things. But when we're adults we're never too old to enjoy them.

I was the same way.

Following his re-conversion to his Anglican faith, C.S. Lewis seemed to try to make up for the fifteen plus years he spent as an atheist by inserting a subtle religious theme into all his novels.

If his friend, J.R.R. Tolkien, had not persistently encouraged Mr. Lewis to come back to the faith, I wonder how those novels would have read.

Jim wrote: "Following his re-conversion to his Anglican faith, C.S. Lewis seemed to try to make up for the fifteen plus years he spent as an atheist by inserting a subtle religious theme into all his novels.

..."

It came to him spontaneously, actually.

Mary wrote: "Jim wrote: "Following his re-conversion to his Anglican faith, C.S. Lewis seemed to try to make up for the fifteen plus years he spent as an atheist by inserting a subtle religious theme into all h..."

Both Mr. Tolkien's and Mr. Lewis' biographies would respectfully disagree with that assertion.

Jim wrote: "Mary wrote: "Jim wrote: "Following his re-conversion to his Anglican faith, C.S. Lewis seemed to try to make up for the fifteen plus years he spent as an atheist by inserting a subtle religious the..."

One wonders why when he's described the writing process himself. Including that Aslan was one of the things that came to him spontaneously, and pulled the other books after him.

Mary wrote: "Jim wrote: "Mary wrote: "Jim wrote: "Following his re-conversion to his Anglican faith, C.S. Lewis seemed to try to make up for the fifteen plus years he spent as an atheist by inserting a subtle r..."

That; I don't know.
I do know that whenever I read an autobiography and a biography about the same person, many events or at least the interpretation of them differ slightly.
No two people view an incident exactly the same way; and each believes their interpretation to be the correct one.

Jim wrote: "Mary wrote: "Jim wrote: "Mary wrote: "Jim wrote: "Following his re-conversion to his Anglican faith, C.S. Lewis seemed to try to make up for the fifteen plus years he spent as an atheist by inserti..."

Definitely. Whenever I want to know more about a person, I try to find as many sources as I can. It's hard to be objectives about ourselves and outsiders don't always understand.

I think you're discussing two different things here. When Mary said "It came to him spontaneously," I believe she meant the inspiration for the Narnia books (which does, indeed, fit with what he said in his essays on the subject), not his (re-)conversion as described in his biographies.

Margaret wrote: "I think you're discussing two different things here. When Mary said "It came to him spontaneously," I believe she meant the inspiration for the Narnia books (which does, indeed, fit with what he s..."

Thank you for the clarification. I did mis-interpret the initial statement.

A friend posted this to his Facebook page - it's so wonderful it brought tears to my eyes:

http://ink-splotch.tumblr.com/post/69...

I always thought that Susan had gotten the short end.

Peggy wrote: "A friend posted this to his Facebook page - it's so wonderful it brought tears to my eyes:

http://ink-splotch.tumblr.com/post/69...

I always thou..."

Wow, that was awesome.

Well, it grants Lewis's indictment. The description was "interested in nothing nowadays except nylons and lipstick and invitations." That story has her interested in a lot of other things. If you have to change the character to refute the charge, the charge is accurate.

There's been several fictional/internet stories about Susan Pevensie, the best known being Neil Gaiman's effort. Someday someone's going to write an entire novel about it.

Peggy wrote: "A friend posted this to his Facebook page - it's so wonderful it brought tears to my eyes:

http://ink-splotch.tumblr.com/post/69...

I always thou..."

That was clever, but in my opinion, not at all what Lewis intended with that line about nylons, lipsticks and invitations. I've always found Susan's character a sad reminder about what might happen when focus on trivialities and gender expectations overcome the potential for character growth.

In the books, although we really don't see much of the four Pevensies in real life, we do see the occasional snapshot. We see more of Eustace and Jill than any of the others, and Eustace in particular is a much more fleshed out character who has had to change as a result of his experiences. Certainly he didn't grow up in Narnia as the Pevensies did, but if you read The Horse and His Boy, you can see some potential hints of what might come in the future for Susan, even if she'd stayed in Narnia - she was already driving men to war for the sake of her beauty.

Lewis makes much more of Lucy's character, in fact, and I've always found both her and Jill fascinating. Both clever, resourceful women. Susan appeared to have been seduced by society's expectations rather than using her skill set for positive change, which is what the author of the piece tried to portray her doing.