Literary Award Winners Fiction Book Club discussion

Gilead has no clear chapter breaks, so I will attempt to do this by page number, even though different editions may have different page numbers. Essentially, divide your total page count by three and that is where the first stopping point is. The break I am looking at on page 83 starts with "I did know a little about the shirts..."

Please place spoilers under a spoiler tag like so... (< spoiler> < / spoiler> with the spaces removed.

Just got past page 83... I am finding this book to be touching and full of wisdom. I find myself going slowly to savor it....

I've been wanting to read this one for a while and will hopefully get to it soon!

Sheila wrote: "I've been wanting to read this one for a while and will hopefully get to it soon!"

Me too, Sheila! I am so excited to start it after I graduate later this week! I've heard such positive things about the book I think it's about time it went from my to read shelf to my read shelf!

I loved this book. It was like an unfolding -- it needs to be read slowly and savoured.

I am very aggravated because I can't find my copy of it. I have looked everywhere. I just moved this summer, and I have books all over the place, and they are not sorted into any logical order. I'll keep looking and hope I can find it before the end of December, so that I can contribute some intelligent thoughts. :) I can't buy it again -- I have realized how many books I own in paperback and hard-cover, thanks to this move, and my Kindle is also getting overburdened, and I have dozens more I WANT to buy. I probably lent Gilead to someone and I just can't remember who.

Mary wrote: "I loved this book. It was like an unfolding -- it needs to be read slowly and savoured.

I am very aggravated because I can't find my copy of it. I have looked everywhere. I just moved this summer..."

We'd love to hear your thoughts! No worried if you don't find it before the next book. You can comment for extra vote points until the next round of that award winner. So, you can still comment on Gilead until the next National Book Critic's Circle read begins for extra points.

Tamara wrote: "Mary wrote: "I loved this book. It was like an unfolding -- it needs to be read slowly and savoured.

I am very aggravated because I can't find my copy of it. I have looked everywhere. I just move..."

Excellent! I'll keep looking!

I read this book back when it won the Pulitzer Prize because EVERYONE in Iowa was reading it. Marilynne Robinson is a teacher in the Writers Workshop in Iowa City, my hometown, so everyone was very excited. I had just graduated high school, and I remember that I had a little bit of trouble getting into it, but after a second try I enjoyed it.

I will dig it out of my parent's library when I'm home over the holidays. I think it will be interesting to see if my interpretations are different nearly 10 years later.

I'm finding it really similar to Mark Twain's biography, seems to go off on tangents and ramble on a bit. It took me a while to get into (I'm listening to the audio-book) but the reader has a nice voice and brings events to life. I have no idea where I'm up to... but the horse in the hole story was hilarious... I'm expecting something deeply profound and moving to tie all these little stories together at the end.

I agree with Elizabeth that it rambles and stutters in places, but I think the early ramblings help to see the father as more than a sick old dad. They help frame who he is as an individual.

Starting Gilead in an hour and hope to read in one sitting .right now, I'm finishing up my other book club book. Lis

Mary wrote: "I loved this book. It was like an unfolding -- it needs to be read slowly and savoured.

I am very aggravated because I can't find my copy of it. I have looked everywhere. I just moved this summer..."

:-) It's a pain to realize you had a good book but it’s nowhere to be found just because it was lent to someone and you cannot remember who it was
Fingers crossed.
I just started reading. There’s this feeling of intimacy you get from a first person narrative but it’s even stronger here because of the act of farewell.
It has reminded me of Coetzee’s “Age of Iron” I adored. A letter of dying mother to her daughter living abroad, written in the time of falling apartheid.

I'm finding it a bit hard to get into. I'm on page 39 and I honestly can't tell you much about what I have read so far. It is well written but maybe I'm just not that interested? I'm going to keep reading to see if it pulls me in.

Ashley wrote: "I'm finding it a bit hard to get into. I'm on page 39 and I honestly can't tell you much about what I have read so far. It is well written but maybe I'm just not that interested? I'm going to keep ..."

Same here, but it always takes time with me,couple of dozens of pages until I'm in. It's very promising, don't have much time to read during the week, looking forward to the weekend though, when I have more time to sit and enjoy it.

I keep on going. It's a special experience for me. I'm atheist, so half of me is in disagreement with so many things (e.g. treating Spanish flue epidemic as a message from God) while the other half tries to, not understand (I do not think I can go that far) but to be a good listener...
Has any of you had that problem?

Lisa wrote: "I'm loving it as they used to say at that tacky Mc Donald's dive. There are a lot of wisdom in this book. Mainly on life. My problem is wanting to be Jewish so I can finish the book instead of Christmas shopping. My comment here is directed at one of the members from Poland, (I will not botch his name). whose probably sleeping now, but I didn't write in the website for the book because of my page not matching the cut off point and this gentleman' s good catch on War part.

As far as the war occurring and it being his best sermon, that is the most obtuse thing I've read thus far. It's incongruous. I'm wondering if He is going to commit suicide, and feels guilty and weak for the souls he didn't meet as he says in the book. Leaving behind important documents for his son is part of how a suicide person thinks because he has a tender conscience. They want to give away there possessions and make people understand. Just my initial thoughts! This is a mystery! Not a narrative. The smart ones who get the job done, (suicide) leave no sign because they don't want to be stopped or found out. Something is up with this reverend and I intrigued.

Getting to my point on war, which is from God. In Ecclesiastes it says "There is a time for war and a time for peace." Fact of life. We need war to preserve our rights and establish freedom and boundaries. Even in lord of the flies, there was war. Where there is land and people, their is war. The reverend sounds like a tender man and has regrets. Men who lead are supposed to be strong and have a take charge attitude. Burning the sermon was smart, (instinct always guides you). But I was thinking of men not killing men as a gauche reason as to Why does God allow war, but if I was the writer, I would've first said to establish peace and territory but as far as the reverends reason , I would've told loved ones that he takes them to put them out of their suffering and pain. Sacrifices. No mother or wife wants a dog tag and a nice car at the door, while she's wiping her hands on a dish towel hearing," on behalf of the war department..."

As far as post traumatic syndrome occurring with war, only some men suffer from it while there are under lying issues joining memories that traumatize a person and like a song that plays over and over in our heads, (I hate when that happens,) there are reasons subconsciously why some have it and some don't . Men, sadly, I think it should be registered voluntary, but in the US , Men or boys have to register to go to war. They have to kill.
Some boys I baby sat loved their G.i.Joes and whittling with a knife to create real war wounds on the plastic figures. It broke my heart for my younger brother to have to legally go down and register with the military. Why does a country tell you what to do, just leave college, a wife, babies. It killed me when his civilian clothes were returned in a box at my front door when forced to go over seas with the war on terrorism.


Point: The whole bible talks about war and murder. Even King David killed, and he was called "a man after God's own heart". by Samuel who was, I believe a prophet of God. The difference is a righteous kill or one done in malice. But it doesn't make sense to have a license as a reverend,( and I checked to see if they actually are licensed when I had a funeral) and for him to eschew and to ignore the Old Testament and the classic book of Ecclesiastes . They have to agree with the whole Bible to be a reverend. He could've sought supplication in prayer and explained politics. In general, Men are wired to kill. And war is part of life. It's not pleasant and it's expensive economically, but we need it for peace. Peace at all cost is fiction. "

I’m going to respond your comment Lisa, here not on my wall, since I promised to comment on the book in our group discussion, hope you do not mind.
I do not think he is going to commit suicide. I think he is just well aware that his time is short and wants the son to get to know him; to understand who he was since the child didn’t have the chance to know him in his strength. He is a man of faith, he would not commit such a sin as suicide.

I do not think I really understand your comment on war. Surely there’s lot of it in the Bible, there’s a lot about sin too, which doesn’t mean reverend has to accept that.
I don’t agree with your statement we need war for peace and that Men are wired to kill. We no longer live on savannas or woods, tribe against tribe trying to secure our resources of food. That killing I could somehow justify. Now, mostly wars are caused to protect resources that make our societies wealthy while half of the world is living in terrible conditions. It does not justify any war ,any killing. Especially, coming out from w savannas or woods, we have spend a bit time thinking, developing our moral codes, religious ethics, secular philosophy, we know what war is and it is a SIN (it is coming from an atheist).

What I meant disagreeing with reverend regarding the part of Spanish flu was the fact that he saw those aspects as a plague, God’s intervention. People were doing in masses and by saying/thinking aforementioned reverend was implicating that God has right to make people die since He is our creator, he can do that to make His point, to send us the message. This is one of the aspect I found so not together regarding religion, if life is the biggest gift, the one we should cherish and not take it away, never even if it’s our on life, then why when it’s in the hands of God its so insignificant. He can toss it, play with and make people die like we were ants.

Kamil,

I understand that, and invite your disagreement about your feelings about Gilead. Interpretation of the book, is subjective and it appears that this book can be viewed as a religious novel or of another ilk. Clearly, this is as was brilliantly stated by one reviewer as "protagonistic faith". Another words this books description/discussions as foreshadowed by other reviews by myself clearly bring up several themes:
A. Civil war-historical, Union army
B. Ministers, primarily Protestant
C. Sacred bond between fathers and sons
D. Fictional character who is non-conformist to decorum and rebels through miscegenation thus resulting in the steady stream-of-consciousness narration to a child.


Without these outlined, one would miss the structure outlined by Ms. Robinson.

As far as your view, I thought that the discussions were governed by interest, background and commentary of the novel.
In other words , I believe Tamara has stated rules about discussing comments to be respectful of opinions and others while commenting. Further, and unfortunately, topics such as religion, politics, or abortion "should not be discussed" have been posted on other groups due to reasons that may interfere with a formidable discussion about the book .
They are personal parts of our personhood, however, a true analyst as stated by the reverend , John Ames, said within the book Gilead and I quote" when you encounter another person, when you have dealings with anyone at all, it is as if a question is being before you? With that said, I believe, you felt this book to mainly be about religion as stated in comments and thus your mien has been this as a difficult novel to get through. Without getting personal, I can empathize with your struggle, particularly, it seems that it appears close to your heart or incongruous to your personhood thus making it difficult to embrace this months selection.
(view spoiler)[

To lay claim to my comments you have addressed specifically to me , I say , metaphorically we have at least adjoined thematically and drawn command of the subjects represented within Gilead. As far as the reverends' , one who went to war and fought to join the Union and abruptly left his vocation and family only to be viscerally drawn to go to war. Subjugation the abolition of slavery. The ailing reverend John Ames, like you, I believe, felt war was just plain superfluous. (sic ) He sought and believed in preservation of the family unit, and the pernicious effects of such action.

To gather and reference my theme of bond and the altruism of John Ames character, he spoke vehemently upon "visions ". In reflecting on his "most visited vision" was seeing his dad actually give him bread, with ashes on it. Bread, is a metaphor representing the least inexpensive type of food , as stated again in the book, (view spoiler)[and at the church fire, his father, who he wanted more than anything, interrupted his efforts to stop the fire, and give him bread. He wanted and spoke of his dad feeding a part if him, thus representing "their" state of connection as father and son. The bread metaphorically representing the cheap investment and all he can give of himself along with the ashes personifying his deeds as a father. But this"vision"that John Ames often declared that he frequently visited, thus my quote on "my comments" as the bible verse saying in the beginning and does also apply on page 38 of the hard cover text, "the full soul loatheth an honeycomb; but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet. ". Simply put, when John made that comment he was referring to even bad company being welcome. (Sic) his dad's affection of giving him "ashy bread" and feeding him like a child . John relished this memory as the only tenderness of his dad ever showed, bending low to his son and feeding him and giving the only part that he could spare of himself. Ashes serving as a metaphor, as again stated by John Ames relics the ugliness of their situation.
Further, another haunting vision he referred to was when in the beginning of Gilead in reference to the incident of when as young boy John was sojourning rather madly with his father to honor his fathers dead memory. Two things Robinson drew in relation to the sons and the instinctive bond penned in Gilead which means, by the way, promised land , (and doesn't lay reference to war). One was the unremarkable drive to honor his latent father and also the John remark made by him from that journey his father's insouciance of him as a boy and john himself trying desperately to keep up with his dad in this nomadic onlay of his father's conscience of laying to rest his father . Continuing, John Ames was so tired of walking on foot that he stopped and rested on a tree stump no matter how much he wanted to stay succinct with his father. Just when his dad is cresting the view of being just out if site, he runs to catch up with his father and remarkably his dad admonished him saying" Don't run, you'll get thirsty" John states, "I been thirsty half my life"

As far as your comment on war, Kamille, and let it be known, I do feel uncomfortable addressing a personal difference of opinion In a forum designed, I feel, that as a group coming to discuss and intellectually administer impressions we developed reading the assigned novel , I feel we should rather " keep to the book and subject matter with respecting my opinion of Gilead the book given the "themes " as stated by the book itself., rather than defend "personal " identity on views relating to war and religion. Just to clarify, my comments were made from the liberty this forum gives with guidelines set by the moderator. To help you understand my comment about war, which Is one of the themes schematically in Gilead , it did not float from studying texts, or reading a book. Like the novel, it came from true knowledge that is current and experientially from having many career military men , both paternal and maternal in my family. Currently, my entire adulthood has "been thirsty" because my only sibling who is a career United States Navy sea man. I identify with both characters, but reality in the United States and the horror the US suffered in 911 was about as vicious attack as Pearl Harbor and deadly. I don't know if you have access to The New York Times , but world events, especially third world countries are currently suffering civil wars. War is ugly as stated by Ames . Your more like him then you realize. As much as I appreciate the instruction you administered and personal philosophy of "atheism" , I'd rather keep my personal views about God, etc separate from this book discussion. Strictly speaking , I'm interested in learning all that I can about Ms. Robinson's reason and denouement about writing the Gilead, and relating philosophy and this book was awesome. It was a literary read, not fiction. The wisdom, insight and exploration for additional rhetorical questions finally finding a home in this soul. I'll update my further opinions on Gilead on the other page another night. (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Kamil, my comment on war was thematic to religion within the the vocation and decision of one reverend. Currently, I know the catholic bible is different than the King James and you did not reference scripture but perhaps themes, teachings maybe ? Have you read the Bible? I know for my friends who are atheists who have and understand the etymology of it , consider it a history book. They know about the wars fought, etc. and because John Ames is by the book so to speak, no pun intended, he eschewed several key verses about God, His character as the novels tie in as to how it relates to the "characters" vocation especially the Old Testament. You can not be a reverend and not agree with some of the bible. Also, key stuff is incongruous to The bible. It's like a doctor who doesn't use medicine but agrees with how disease and everything else corresponds to his vocation.
But as stated I seek to draw on the nectar of what the metaphor Robinson has used in this Pulitzer. Have you wondered why they "always" called each other just "Reverend". Not John. And having a names tie-in? I will comment and pontificate further on war and how Robinson uses it within the corresponding page per the break up as set up by Tamara. Anything personal, please use my wall because this can lead the conversation away from the book and you have every right to ask questions, but I did have a check in me about my categorical comments being placed on a forum wall if it's a group. There are definitely loop holes and you have excellent questions about God. Unfortunately, as stated this book is not about religion. if you have not researched the book on good reads and also the author on the internet , I have all her books, and again authors of her ilk don't write about the bible, especially with a prize and loopholes. The religion is considered a red herring, paradox. :-}.

However, according to the rules, you may think whatever or however it speaks to you. That's the beauty of literature. I'm sorry you see it differently.

Lisa, I have not said this book is about religion. I was referring to, what I believe, was your though on war, that I disagreed with.

I just got to the first stopping point and I have to say that I am truly enjoying this book is far. I appreciate the rambling prose, as it may be, in a way that I would appreciate someone audibly telling me a story, especially an older person. I think Robinson has definitely hit the nail on the head with how an older person might talk or write in stream of consciousness while still trying to get a point across. I am not religious at all and don't feel overwhelmed in the least by the bible and sermon references. I actually find them quite interesting and feel I am learning a lot, while appreciating the character's perspective. I am looking forward to the next segment of this books. I'm thinking I'll finish it today while I sit in my lounge chair in Mexico. Merry Christmas everyone!

Tamara wrote: "I just got to the first stopping point and I have to say that I am truly enjoying this book is far. I appreciate the rambling prose, as it may be, in a way that I would appreciate someone audibly t..."

Tamara, first half I also enjoyed, the second was the one I had the most trouble with. I'm interested how you will handle that, and if your aproach will differ from mine. This was the part when teology started killing my interest.

Minne wrote: "Why was T.'s father angry about the goldfish rhyme? I didn't understand it... Can anyone explain, please? (:"

The "L" stands for "Hell!" in the poem, which T's father apparently found an inappropriate word for the children to be using. (p.68, my copy)

Sarah, that is so interesting! I had wondered about that being offensive too but now that you mention why it makes more sense. Thanks!

Elizabeth, I bet the book is fascinating to listen too. It seems so appropriate for spoken word as I read it. Also, the horse in the hole story WAS hysterical!

Josh, I completely agree. The rambling really adds to the narrators character.

My favorite passage from this section is on page 53, "the twinkling of an eye. That is the most expression. I've thought from time to time it was the best thing in life, that little incandescence you see in people when the charm of a thing trikes them, or the humor of it."

It's taken me a while to really get into this book. I love the language and find if I just sit down for 10 minutes I'm drawn in and can't stop reading. Yet, it's been really hard for me to find that initial 10 minutes lately. I love the way he discusses the isolation of being a preacher. Yet he feels that he must live apart, to give them a sense of security. It's a sacrifice similar to what a mother or father would make, allowing a child to believe they are all-knowing.

I'm sorry to say that I just lost my copy of Gilead, even though it was a library copy! I have no idea where it is; I've looked everywhere. I think my 18 month old did something with it. I'm going to move on to Round House. Goodbye Gilead.