Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

This may be a little off topic, but I recently read a book set in Scotland. It was excellently written, and I could tell the author was Scottish, but I was lacking in the vocabulary of Scottish slang that was used in the dialogue. Therefore, I just didn't "get" some of it because I didn't know what the slang words meant.

However, I agree with the consensus, that either British or American spelling should be accepted.

I agree that when it comes to slangs, I find difficulties in understanding them too. But simple, straight-forward English, whether British or US, should be accepted, and not ridiculed by readers. I have never come across British readers ridiculing US authors for their spellings. Unfortunately, I've seen many US readers doing the opposite to authors who use the British English. It's kinda frustrating!

There was an initiative some time ago to make more distinction, not just UK or US English, but also South African English, Dutch English, Canadian English, Australian English.

Although English is not my native tongue, I'm better at English than my Dutch, which has a lot of illogical grammar rules. And writing in English comes more natural to me that writing in Dutch.

Even if a few reviewers commenting on unusual turns of phrase, I think writing a solid, engaging story precludes too many comments on the spelling. And if the spelling is the only thing they complain about, the rest must be all right.

I do agree however with the poster about truth in dialogue and narration - if your story is set in the Old West, your character won't refer to a pocket watch as a wrist watch either. If an American character consistently uses UK slang, you have to establish a reason for it (an obsession with Fawlty Towers and Monty Python, or an addiction to Eastenders), otherwise it will be regarded as a mistake.

Sympathy to Uma for a negative review based on her use of British spelling.
Being British, I am sometimes annoyed by U.S. spellings etc., but as has been said on here previously, I'd never leave a bad review for a book based purely on that, although words such as 'gotten' can grate on the senses, and the fact that in the U.S. there doesn't seem to be any differentiation of tense for the verb 'to fit'. E.g. - 'It fit her perfectly' - now does that mean that it fits her perfectly, or it fitted her perfectly? And am I being pedantic?
Language is a dynamic and evolving means of communication, and as long as meaning is clear, I would not wish to be critical about such matters, or necessarily hold fast to conventions of grammar and punctuation, because sometimes the author may choose to waive conventions as a deliberate device to improve flow or tempo in a piece. Similarly spelling and vocabulary evolve, particularly with regard to colloquial language. I find personally, that being subject to a lot of U.S. television and film, I am not always sure which slang is solely British, and which has transatlantic origins, whereas my 'Britishisms' are probably very visible to a U.S. reader.

J.R. wrote: "Sympathy to Uma for a negative review based on her use of British spelling.
Being British, I am sometimes annoyed by U.S. spellings etc., but as has been said on here previously, I'd never leave a ..."

Thank you J.R. I watch tons of U.S. tv and films too and the only English drama I watch is Downton Abbey! That being said, I was brought up learning how to spell the British way. I knew that spelling 'humor' as 'humour' and 'realization' as 'realisation' was going to get me some bad reviews. Nevertheless, I chose to do it anyway. Changing my spelling would have only disrupted the flow of the story. I even thought of mixing them up, the UK and US spellings, but decided against it. To me, if a story is wonderful and unique, I don't mind how it is written. Grammar, spellings... perhaps that is how the author wants to portray his/her writings.

It doesn't matter to me.

When I'm writing my own books, half the time I'm not even certain if I'm using the British or American version of the word. I'm British, but my hubby - who is a much better speller than I am - is Canadian, and the person who most often acts as my proof reader/editor is American. If I'm not sure on the spelling of a word, I'll either ask one of them, or look it up. As long as I can be sure it's spelled correctly according to one form of English or another, I don't worry about whether I've been given the British or American spelling.

When I'm reading, I only care if the word looks/sounds right, and don't care if the author wrote colour or color. It's like the whole pronouncing of "potato" and "tomato" thing... It makes no difference.

The only time it may make a difference is if you're trying to be authentic while writing about a certain country and/or time period. But, even then I don't really worry too much about which version of the spelling authors I'm reding have used; as long as it's spelled correctly, and I can verify this by looking it up if I'm not sure, I really don't care what form of English you're writing in.

As for leaving badd reviews based on spelling: the only time I do this is if the spelling is poor in at least a large portion of the book. In other words... If the book is poorly edited. My opinion on this is never based on the form of English, but purely on poor editing in general.

people assume I'm canadian since i tend to use uk english in my writing. I'm american as it gets and i blame watching canadian and uk shows and reading a lot of canadian and uk authors as a kid (yay college prep & pbs). I'm just too lazy to change everything to us english because according to my poor wordprocessor its all technically correct (it accepts us, uk & aus english). i had a poor review on one of my books as well due to my habitual uk english usage. *shrugs* if it's in my mw, oxford and random house dictionaries i'm running with it.

I would use relevance as a rule of thumb.

If the story was exclusively set in America, for example, then I would use US English as anything else would damage the authenticity of the tale. I would expect that an American reader would quite rightly object to me doing otherwise. Of course this holds true when I, as an English author, use UK English for a book set in England; I would expect the reader to accept that this irrespective of their nationality.

If one is consistent in their usage, then cry havoc and let loose the hounds of Anglish Lit.

Peter wrote: "I would use relevance as a rule of thumb.

If the story was exclusively set in America, for example, then I would use US English as anything else would damage the authenticity of the tale. I would ..."

That's how I see it.

Yzabel wrote: "Humberto wrote: "@Shomeret. Sorry, if a plot happens in the US use American English. Corollary: if it happens in Germany use German, and in India? Which one of their 400 languages?
And what about a..."

"Klingon as the universal language" You had me LOL! Thanks for the laughs! :)

Who's the Necromancer who unearthed this thread, and can I hug you? ;)

These days I confess to bits of Scots worming their way into my writing. This is getting so complicated. XD

Yzabel, as long as you're not throwing haggis at people it's okay.

Aw, no! Why would I waste such good food?

Yzabel wrote: "Aw, no! Why would I waste such good food?"

Who knows? My 17 month-old tiny demon likes to throw perfectly good protein on the floor when it isn't exactly what She wants. I hate having to pick kat fur off Her rejects before scarfing them. :)

I read so many british authors when I was young that I thought grey was the correct spelling for a very long time.

Charles wrote: "I read so many british authors when I was young that I thought grey was the correct spelling for a very long time."

You mean it isn't? Dang it.

Stan wrote: "If the story was exclusively set in America, for example, then I would use US English as anything else would damage the authenticity of the ..."

For the dialogue and inner monologue of American characters, yes. For American goods and items, yes. Not for the rest.

R.F.G. wrote: "Charles wrote: "I read so many british authors when I was young that I thought grey was the correct spelling for a very long time."

You mean it isn't? Dang it."

Well, I would argue that all UK spellings are the correct spellings, but nobody would listen.

Is it really that important? As long as it's consistent through out the book, I don't see why one should be bothered by it.

So... which is it? Grey or gray? I'm really confused now :-)

I'm writing in the UK English but my editor is American. He tended to be straightforward in his editing rather than allowing me to go around the bush/being fuzzy/being ambiguous that I like in my writing the way the British are fond of. But can't complain too much as my short stories are doing equally well on both sides of the pond.

One of the dumbest reviews I ever gave revolved around a book set in Scotland. I liked the book, but noted in my review how disappointed I was that the hero didn't have an accent. I later found out the author was Scottish, so of course she didn't include the brogue. I don't write with a Texas drawl, right? lol Though my original review stood (it was 5 star anyway), tagged a note about my mistake at the bottom. It made me more aware about regional expectations in writing.

Uma wrote: "So... which is it? Grey or gray? I'm really confused now :-)"

Gray is American, grey is UK.

S. wrote: "I'm writing in the UK English but my editor is American. He tended to be straightforward in his editing rather than allowing me to go around the bush/being fuzzy/being ambiguous that I like in my w..."


That's a shame, because British authors seem to have a flair that American authors don't. I'm reading a book by a UK author right now, Robots Like Blue, and I'm loving the fact that it is non-american.

Charles wrote: "Uma wrote: "So... which is it? Grey or gray? I'm really confused now :-)"

Gray is American, grey is UK."

Thank you! Phew! I have been right all along then with GREY!

Uma wrote: "Charles wrote: "Uma wrote: "So... which is it? Grey or gray? I'm really confused now :-)"

Gray is American, grey is UK."

Thank you! Phew! I have been right all along then with GREY!"

While not British, I tend to use grey most of the time -- guess it was those books I used to read from the late 1800s to early 1900s.

S. wrote: "I'm writing in the UK English but my editor is American. He tended to be straightforward in his editing rather than allowing me to go around the bush/being fuzzy/being ambiguous that I like in my w..."

I'm glad your stories are doing well, but think it's a shame your editor does that; your style should be your own, regardless of what sort of style it is.

Steelwhisper wrote: "Stan wrote: "If the story was exclusively set in America, for example, then I would use US English as anything else would damage the authenticity of the ..."

For the dialogue and inner monologue o..."

I agree with Steelwhisper.

I'm Canadian and we have a unique problem in that we need to know both US English and UK (Canadian) English. You may think it doesn't matter, but if I'm writing for a US publisher it has to be US English and if I'm writing for a Canadian publisher then its UK English. Making mistakes in either is a definite problem and I need to be completely proficient in both.

UK and Canadian Readers are not overly concerned with which English they read, but many Americans will not read UK English. There have been several comments in this discussion noting Americans complained or wrote bad reviews because a writer used the UK version of English.

The decision as to which to use should be based on the target readers. Unfortunately the US has very little tolerance for anything but US English and if that's your market, regardless of the story setting, you need to use US English. I've heard that some Canadian and British publishers now do a US version of their titles for the US market.

I'm talking publishers, but if you are self-publishing you should be thinking about your target market and using the English version that best markets your books.

Christine,

I believe the problem lies more with when and where some US readers went to school. I may be old as dirt (to the <40 crowd) but I don't have any issue with either UK or US English. If I'm not quite grasping a particular context, I'll utilize a dictionary for the appropriate version.

What tends to drive the concept that most of the US has low tolerance for other flavors of English, would be the same segment of US society that has a low tolerance for anything different from the narrow slice of what they were taught was correct and proper.

Back-in-the-day when I attended the one-room schoolhouse with the schoolmarm, we had access to books written on either side of the mud-puddle.

But you're correct in saying authors need to concentrate on their target market, as many people in the US younger than fifty probably haven't been exposed to many variants of the language. I remember having to read Chaucer's work in Middle English...

R.F.G.

I'm sure there are many like yourself who have no issue with the variances. I enjoy the diversity of the two versions of English, and like you read various literature in school. I didn't care for Chaucer, but read everything Dickens wrote. Who can forget their first Sherlock Holmes experience.

Big publishers have learned to adapt to the various markets. They spend the money and learn what works and what changes they need to make to maximize sales. It's a practice that every SP should "steal" from the big guys. Like it or not - it's about selling books.

I have to admit I dread the day "computer speak" becomes an accepted language.

Once my little press has more of a catalog, I'll worry more about maximizing sales. Till then, I'll just be happy to have a few readers.

I recently read a trilogy in which verbs were conjugated "incorrectly" and then it occurred to me that perhaps the writer was from the UK. I am American and work for a British bank remotely so at some point something I read clued me in. Sure enough the verbs were fine. Once I wrapped my head around that it didn't trip me up and what had felt like a messy novel really "cleaned up" a lot. I ended up loving the series.

It's interesting how our linguistic context affects our reading at such a subtle yet powerful level.

Victoria wrote: "S. wrote: "I'm writing in the UK English but my editor is American. He tended to be straightforward in his editing rather than allowing me to go around the bush/being fuzzy/being ambiguous that I l..."

Hehe..I think American like clarity. They dont like to read between the lines. For the British you just dont know whats going to hit you. Im neither, but I do like subtleness and innuendoes better..

R.F.G. wrote: "Uma wrote: "Charles wrote: "Uma wrote: "So... which is it? Grey or gray? I'm really confused now :-)"

Gray is American, grey is UK."

Thank you! Phew! I have been right all along then with GREY!"
..."


Gray is a major theme in one of my books, so I actually had to google this to settle it. For the longest time I thought grey was the correct spelling too.

I'm from the US but I read a lot of UK writers, and watch a lot of UK TV/film. So a lot of times I don't even notice the differences when I'm reading.

In what I write I often mix it up, especially in dialog. When you set stories in spacefaring societies there's no reason to stick to one or the other. A blend makes sense from the internal logic of the story.

That being said, I did do a double take on the word "ax" in a novel I'm editing. I had to look it up because it looked all wrong. "Ax" apparently is now the preferred US spelling of "axe." It still looked wrong to me, so I changed it to the non-US spelling.

As far as slang and phonetic dialog goes, unless you're using the first person POV and are as brilliant as Anthony Burgess...leave the slang out of any narrative. Yeah? It can be really annoying. And then try to limit it in dialog. I've been as guilty as anyone trying to use phonetic spelling of dialog. I've gone back in and curbed its use...and probably didn't remove enough of it. Unless it's done flawlessly, it can be a real hindrance to reading.

One interesting side note on UK slang from a US POV is...it can really come in handy at work. See where I work email and instant messaging uses some aggressive spam filters...basically censors. I can't drop an f-bomb w/out getting an error. But luckily, US naughty word filters don't know what "bugger" or "wanker" or "bollocks" mean. It's like on TV when they play the movie A Fish Called Wanda...they bleep the f-word out but leave "It's better than buggering people!" in.

It's a funny old world, then, innit?

And I've always understood it to be dialogue, not dialog. I looked it up in the dictionary. Either is acceptable.

"England and America are two countries divided by a common language."*
*George Bernard Shaw - Irish playwright (1856-1950).

The controversy regarding the different approach to spelling and grammar is much ado about nothing, which also happens to be the title of a play by some English guy named Shakespeare.

Chris wrote: "If US readers think UK spelling is just bad spelling, then that's regrettable, but I wouldn't see that as a reason for using US spelling in my books (why should I pander to ignorance?)."

Hah, I hear you. Probably even more so that I'm not a native speaker, so every time I get criticised for my "bad spelling", I feel like saying: "Yeah, well, you know, first I had to learn your goddamn language. So I'm throwing you out of your comfort zone? Oh, poor widdle you, see how I care... not. (Also, exerting my doubly God-given right to be an arse because I am French and living in Scotland. I mean, I can complain! I can really complain now! Feel the pain! :P)

Seriously, either way means "making an effort" to me, but I just can't stand the "you can't spell!!!1!" attitude, since it's basically ignorance—or perhaps laziness as well. Because, technically, if we wanted to make sure everybody could understand? Then we'd have to write in Globish, and that would, er, suck.

Chris wrote: "But I expect I'll go on using UK spellings simply because if I tried to use US spellings, I'd be bound to get some of them wrong, and that would be much worse than sticking to UK spelling throughout."

I think that'd be worse, too.

One thing to consider is stating in the book description, US, UK, Aus, or whatever version of Anglish is being used, i.e.: US English Edition, NZ English Edition, Klingon English Edition, or Uranus English Edition.

If a reader wants to have a convolutin hissy fit over catalog versus catalogue, then he she or it is in dire need of a dictionary and a sense of proportion.

I managed to CLEP out of six hours of college-level English and I still check the dictionary on a very regular basis. Fact is my brothers both have PhDs, they're older, and they have to resort to dictionaries more often than I do.

Yzabel wrote: "Chris wrote: "If US readers think UK spelling is just bad spelling, then that's regrettable, but I wouldn't see that as a reason for using US spelling in my books (why should I pander to ignorance?..."

I like the term "willfully ignorant". Cuz that's just what some people are. Even if you give them the correct information that contradicts what they believe to be true, they'll never accept it under any conditions.