Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

:) So true, Dwayne! Scarlet Letter discussion this month was like that. We had 1-2-3-4-5 Star ratings. All of them! It's great :D

MK wrote: "Dwayne, I was thinking about what I posted while I was brushing my teeth.

I think the distinction I am meaning to try and get across, is that I don't think Rand's fiction had a significant impact ..."

MK/Melanti -- I have been watching this exchange. I have a couple of comments

1) Ayn Rand has stood the test of time, including relevence. The fact that her work inspires such heated conversations 50 years later is testomony to that.

2) What critera do you use to define literary merit? It is a very subjective term. Dante's Comedy is called a "comedy" not because of humor, but because it was written in the vernacular. And it was an exceptionally political book.

3) Throughout history literature has either directly or indirectly spoke to the social/political enviornment of the times in which they lived (Jonathan Swift, Harriet Beech Stover, George Orwell,Fyodor Dostoevsky,Ralph Ellison, William Golding , Anthony Trollope to name a few)

4) My opinion is that Rand's use of metaphor, imagry is extensive.

5) Her work would not be "dangerous" if it was some treatise for economic professors -- or even the Federal Reserve. It is dangerous because it makes all those book lists.

I agree with Duane about "agreeing to disagree". Rather than discuss the literary merit -- it would be great fun to discuss the actual book!

Finally, I feel compelled to say this. I worry that this country is polarized to the extent that the conservatives see only their view point, the liberals only their view point. Ayn Rand makes people uncomfortable -- but that is not neessarily a bad thing.

Lale wrote: "Gina wrote: "Lale wrote: "If they are sexy they wont translate"

Have you tried written by Richard Bach??

I think that it has been even transla..."

It's not sexy it makes you think. I don't think that this book would have been translated to Arabic if it was like bad stuff.

I wouldn't recommend a book like that, by the way, so look for the book and let me know, I'll read it soon if you would like to discuss the book :)

Richard Bach -- Jonathan Living Seagull is one of my favorite books. I like his writing.

Re: Ayn Rand.

I think she might have been an important author to Americans but less important to the rest of the world. I think they have translated only one of her novels to Finnish. (I think the Swedish translation was published by a thinktank in the 1980s.)
I found a review and some opinions about Atlas Shrugged and they agreed it was a relatively good entertainment novel but she was nothing special as an author. Of course she might have some importance because she seems to have influenced some American politicians but that's about it, she's not an important figure in Europe.

Tytti wrote: "Re: Ayn Rand.

I think she might have been an important author to Americans but less important to the rest of the world. I think they have translated only one of her novels to Finnish. (I think th..."

You are correct that she has not been translated into Finnish. But, she has been translated into multiple languages including Russian

http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-wo...

http://www.amazon.com/Atlant-raspravi...

I do believe she is read and discussed in Europe. Below is a report from the BBC in 2012

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-1928... A quote from the BBC article:

"Rand's popularity is not confined to the US, however, with healthy book sales in the UK, India, Australia, Italy and South Africa."

And it was translated into German in 2012

http://www.sfgate.com/business/articl...

Along with everything else, views on her works are polarized and not accurately by either camp… which makes for interesting discussion. Objectivism is used interchangbly with Libertarian. They are not the same. Rand did not like the Libertarian movement. In Rand's own words:

"All kinds of people today call themselves "libertarians" especially something calling itself the New Right, which consists of hippies who are anarchists instead of leftist collectivists, but anarchists are collectivists…I could deal with a Marxist with a greater chance of reaching some kind of understanding , and with much greater respect. Anarchists are the scum of the intellectual world of the Left which has given them up. So the Right picks up another Leftist discard. That's the libertarian movement." There are pages and pages bashing Libertarians.

Whether one likes her or not -- she invokes a passionate response. I apologize in advance -- I love controversary, intectual debate, banned books and the like….

Cathy wrote: ""Rand's popularity is not confined to the US, however, with healthy book sales in the UK, India, Australia, Italy and South Africa."

And it was translated into German in 2012"

But UK is not always quite "European", Italy more so but they did have Berlusconi. And if it were considered great literature or otherwise important, it probably would have been translated to German (the most spoken language in Europe) much earlier than that.

"But she speaks most directly to American conservatives, says Timothy Stanley, a British historian at the University of Oxford who writes about US politics for the Daily Telegraph."
"American Conservatism is fundamentally about the relationship between the individual and the community, about jealously protecting the individual's liberty."

And I think that is the reason. Europeans in general don't understand American conservatives and don't really like their mindset, their thinking is so foreign to us. Personally I don't find her books at all interesting and it seems that her writing hasn't convinced literature critics, either.

I ran across this today - advice for starting on Faulkner.

http://www.lithitchhiker.com/2012/08/...

I might propose this for a read starting in July or August.

David wrote: "I ran across this today - advice for starting on Faulkner.

http://www.lithitchhiker.com/2012/08/...

I might propose this for a read starting in July or August."


Thanks for that link, David :) I actually just purchased the audible audiobook of Faulkner's Light in August yesterday! (It was their Audible Daily Deal.)

I haven't tried any Faulkner since an English class assigned book, and all I really remember is that it was difficult, with the stream of consciousness and lack of punctuation. I don't even remember which one ...

The blurb said Light in August was considered by many to be one of Faulkner's most accessible, so I thought I could borrow the book from my library, and follow along on the audiobook. Your link suggests starting with that one too, interestingly. I'd also love to read some Faulkner, I hope you do nominate one.

I read the Snopes trilogy years ago and loved it. I suppose that I found so much to laugh at because I grew up in rural Alabama and many of the characters were familiar to me.

heh ... fun :)

(I do love reading books set in familiar territory, it brings extra enjoyment for me)

Here's another interesting list:
http://www.bookdepository.com/bestboo...

Thanks for thoses lists! :) I will go threw them as soon as I have time! :)

These are from Great American Bestsellers: The Books That Shaped America by Peter Conn

Bay Psalm Book by Richard Mather
Common Sense by Thomas Paine
The Last of the Mohicans by James Fenimore Cooper
Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe
Ragged Dick by Horatio Alger Jr.
Little Women by Louisa May Alcott
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Virginian: A Horseman of the Plains by Owen Wister
The House of Mirth by Edith Wharton
The Jungle by Upton Sinclair
Main Street by Sinclair Lewis
The Maltese Falcon by Dashiell Hammett
The Good Earth by Pearl S. Buck
Gone with the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie
The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
Native Son by Richard Wright
The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
The Woman Warrior by Maxine Hong Kingston
John Adams by David McCullough

Kim wrote: "I was wondering..

Now that I've finished The Scarlet Letter, I got a little more curious about specifically the way society worked in the New England. So basically like real American classics abou..."

Yes, there are several American Classics. And the list will change depending on where you look.

Here are some authors you might want to check out (besides Hawthorne who is included of course):

Washington Irving
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Henry David Thoreau
Edgar Allan Poe
Nathaniel Hawthorne
Herman Melville
Harriet Beecher Stowe Uncle Tom's Cabin
Mark Twain
Henry James
Stephen Crane
Charlotte Perkins Gilman The Yellow Wallpaper
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Ernest Hemingway
William Faulkner
John Steinbeck
Ralph EllisonInvisible Man
Eugene O'Neill
Tennessee Williams
Toni Morrison

Poets:
Walt Whitman
Emily Dickinson
Robert Frost
T.S. Eliot

(List from Classics of American Literature: The Teaching Company)

David wrote: "I read the Snopes trilogy years ago and loved it. I suppose that I found so much to laugh at because I grew up in rural Alabama and many of the characters were familiar to me."


I remembered you said you were from Alabama, David. I don't know if you're still living there or not, if so, I hope you and your family came through the last couple of days safely. I know there's been a terrible outbreak of tornadoes. Be well!

MK wrote: "I remembered you said you were from Alabama, David. I don't know if you're still living there or not, if so, I hope you and your family came through the last couple of days safely. I know there's been a terrible outbreak of tornadoes. Be well! "

We are all just fine. The worst parts of the storms were on two tracks - one went north of us and the other went south. There is quite a bit of damage but none in our neighborhood. Thanks for asking!

David wrote: "We are all just fine. The worst parts of the storms were on two tracks - one went north of us and the other went south. There is quite a bit of damage but none in our neighborhood. Thanks for asking! ..."

What a relief! I know it was pretty bad. Stay safe!!

I am curious about whether we have any members that are high school teachers. If so what is on the required reading lists for high school? I wonder what the difference is on the required reading lists for high school kids in other countries versus the United States.

Interesting question Cindy.. I can honestly say, whilst I do remember having to read several Shakespeare works,Graham Green -Brighton Rock, and war poets it was so long ago things have surely changed! I cannot remember what I read before the final couple of years of school, it did however get me googlng!http://schoolreadinglist.co.uk/

Cindy wrote: "I am curious about whether we have any members that are high school teachers. If so what is on the required reading lists for high school? I wonder what the difference is on the required reading l..."

Well that's easy. In Finland we don't have any "required reading lists", at least not when I was at school. I doubt it has changed that much since then. Then again, the whole "high school" is voluntary.

There are "reading diplomas" for different grades but the lists are made in co-operation with local libraries and they are voluntary, too.

Cindy wrote: "I am curious about whether we have any members that are high school teachers. If so what is on the required reading lists for high school? I wonder what the difference is on the required reading l..."

I'm from Canada, and we pretty much read similar stuff to what people in the U.S. do (Great Gatsby, To Kill a Mockingbird, Shakespearean plays, Brave New World), with an occasional piece of Canadian literature like A Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood.

Here's a site which has lists, lists, and more lists. Books sorted by decade, genre, etc.

If this was already shared, I apologize. I didn't have time yet this morning to read the earlier posts in this thread.

BTW, this helped me find ideas for this group's Classic Bingo Challenge.

http://hilobrow.com/adventure/

Nice one. Thank you, Dawn.

You're welcome. :)

Thanks Dawn, I think I'll be making use of this when planning some of my challenges for next year!

Oh, I was wanting something like this for next year. Thanks!

One thing I like about the lists on there is the use of the old book covers. They remind me of the books I saw in the library when I was a kid.

Yes! It makes them very nostalgic. I prefer old covers, especially on classics.

Check out this NPR article:
5 Best-Selling Female Writers You May Not Have Heard Of.

Recommended books are:

Ruth Hall: A Domestic Tale of the Present Time
Iola Leroy: Shadows Uplifted
Tempest and Sunshine
The gold brick
The Hidden Hand: Or, Capitola the Madcap


Pretty nifty!

Judy wrote: "Check out this NPR article:
5 Best-Selling Female Writers You May Not Have Heard Of...."

Great find, Judy. Thank you.

I'm too lazy to check also. Much easier just to read the good list that you found.

Hah, I deleted it because I noticed that it had been. But here it is again. At least it has more than doubled the lists that it's based on.

"This list is generated from 107 "best of" book lists from a variety of great sources. An algorithm is used to create a master list based on how many lists a particular book appears on."
http://thegreatestbooks.org/

But this one I think is new. It's by Peirene Press that publishes translated novellas. ('Two-hour books to be devoured in a single sitting: literary cinema for those fatigued by film.' Times Literary Supplement. I like that idea.)
I think it was their readers who came up with this list, I kind of like it, it's a bit different.

Read the World - The Peirene 100 Essential Classics From Around the Globe
http://www.listchallenges.com/read-th...

Another list -- you can find this one in several places if you just Google it. I've included a link to The Atlantic article.

The Greatest Books of All Time, As Voted by 125 Famous Authors

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainm...

And if you are into Nonfiction here is a list for you:

http://thegreatestbooks.org/nonfiction

Kathy wrote: "Another list -- you can find this one in several places if you just Google it. I've included a link to The Atlantic article.

The Greatest Books of All Time, As Voted by 125 Famous Authors

http://..."

Thanks for the lists, Kathy!

I have on my "Want to read" list, many many books of Jane Austen. I hope soon enough I will start to read "Pride and Prejudice".

Alexandra wrote: "I have on my "Want to read" list, many many books of Jane Austen. I hope soon enough I will start to read "Pride and Prejudice"."

It's a great book Alexandra! Hope you enjoy it when you read it! :)

1001 Books You Must Read Before You Die (All Editions Combined)
1001 Books You Must Read Before You Dieis a literary reference book compiled by over one hundred literary critics worldwide and edited by Peter Boxall, Professor of English at Sussex University,[1] with an introduction by Peter Ackroyd.

http://www.listchallenges.com/1001-bo...

I hadn't realized while formulating my personal lists of classics challenge that there was a board specifically for lists of classics, so I'll go ahead and post links to the ones I'm using as reference here.

100 Must-Read Classics By Women

100 Must-Read Classics by People of Color

How many of each have you all read? With nearly 200 works (there's some overlap), there's lots to choose from.

Katy wrote: "1001 Books You Must Read Before You Dieis a literary reference book compiled by over one hundred literary critics worldwide and edited by Peter Boxall, Professor of English at Sussex University,[1] with an introduction by Peter Ackroyd. "

I'm instinctively suspicious of directive lists of any kind when it comes to books, if only because they're never accurate enough, but I will read literally anything written by Peter Ackroyd.

And if he's written the introduction, it might just be enough to make me reconsider my opinion...

Pillsonista wrote: "...I'm instinctively suspicious of directive lists of any kind when it comes to books..."

Yes, I know. But I've been looking for an easy list of the 1001 for a bit.

Aubrey wrote: "I hadn't realized while formulating my personal lists of classics challenge that there was a board specifically for lists of classics, so I'll go ahead and post links to the ones I'm using as refer..."

Thanks Aubrey.

Katy wrote: "Pillsonista wrote: "...I'm instinctively suspicious of directive lists of any kind when it comes to books..."

Yes, I know. But I've been looking for an easy list of the 1001 for a bit."

Honestly, compared to some lists I've seen, it's very good. Certainly good enough for me to bookmark, which is a first.

The Tale of Genji was #32 on the classics by women and Lady Murasaki, I'm pretty sure, was on the people of color list. I agree that these kinds of lists can be suspect at times but I do check them out for ideas.

Pillsonista wrote: "Katy wrote: "Pillsonista wrote: "...I'm instinctively suspicious of directive lists of any kind when it comes to books..."

Yes, I know. But I've been looking for an easy list of the 1001 for a bit..."

Generally speaking, the 1,001 books list is a bit eclectic.

If you ever look through the actual book, they actually explain their reasoning behind which books they choose.

Some are there for historical reasons (formative book of a particular genre or inspired other writers in the genre, etc), to just plain good books.

The book gives a ton of spoilers, so I wouldn't look through the entries for books you're about to read, but I find it interesting to browse through and look at what they thought was significant about books I've recently read.

Melanti...I didn't know that they had explanations and book descriptions in the 1001 list. That is a very good bit of information! Thank you!

Have you looked at The Harvard Classics, originally known as "Dr. Eliot's Five Foot Shelf" ? It's Eurocentric, of course, since it dates from the early 1900s, but you can always supplement with other lists :)

I created a list of major classics from around the world: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
Check it out and see if there are important works missing or vote for those you think best! 😊

Thanks for the list Erin.