Flights of Fantasy discussion

Chris wrote: "I'd call it a series..."

Yeah, I would too

Hi, I’m new to the group and happy to come in when you’re starting a Sherlock Holmes buddy read.

The show “Sherlock Holmes: The True Story” was on the Discovery Channel a while back. It talked about a pioneer in forensic science who inspired Sir Arthur Conan Doyle to create the Sherlock Holmes character. I enjoyed the program a lot. Here’s a link to it for anyone who is interested.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/sherlo...

It’ll be nice to get to know all of you.

Welcome Robert!

Chris wrote: "I'd call it a series..."


MrsJoseph (taking back my data & giving GR the middle finger) wrote: "Chris wrote: "I'd call it a series..."

Yeah, I would too"

Okay. Thanks! :)

I've started and it is quite different than I imagined. My grandmother's favorite Holmes, and the one I grew up watching with her, was Basil Rathbone but I have to say (with apologies to her) that I don't picture him at all reading this. Surprisingly (to me) the BBC update is much closer. At least in regards to character.

Its also much easier to read than I feared it would be.

I restarted my read and have just completed Part One, Chapter 6 ~ Tobias Gregson Shows What He Can Do. ((view spoiler)[I should have known better than to expect that it was something good/competent, but one can hope. *smile* (hide spoiler)])

While I'm not familiar with TV Holmes' of old, I agree with Nienna that the current series (with Cumberbatch *sigh*) is a good representation of Holmes from the book.
The two things that struck me (and my preconceived notions) are: 1. Sherlock is much more jovial than I thought he would be, and 2. I always assumed Watson was much older, but a lot less "feeble".

I am enjoying the story very much. While not quite as awe struck as Watson, I am fascinated by Sherlock Holmes' processes of deduction.
I was ready to say (view spoiler)[The secretary did it. Embarrassed by his employer's actions, and possibly smitten with the daughter himself [hence the ring], but 1. He turns up dead at the end of the chapter and 2. thats an awfully short amount of time to fall in love and want to marry someone. (hide spoiler)]

I find it interesting and amusing that while watching portrayals of Holmes, and listening to others describe him, I wondered if he might have Aspergers Syndrome; but in reading the original work, he just seems like an highly intelligent ass - then again, unfortunately, many a patient with Aspergers is seen the same way...

I read the stories before I watched any of the various Holmes adaptations and I don't think I ever thought that he was anything other than, as you say, "a highly intelligent ass" :)

So far in Scarlet I love that whole section when (view spoiler)[ Watson is trying to work out what Holmes does and makes a list of his skills (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

I really liked the first book! I loved how 2 different stories are told. I read this a few years ago. I'm want to try to refreshing my mind on this one without a re-read then go on from there.

Paul wrote: So far in Scarlet I love that whole section when (view spoiler) "

I liked that section as well. :) I could see Watson, completely exasperated, throwing his hands up in the air in disgust. LOL

Oh, I thought it touching that Sherlock would entertain Watson after his random "fiddlings" on the violin.
I don't see someone with Aspergers having the presence of mind to do that.

It's great because you as the reader already know the answer and you're just waiting fir Watson to get it :-)

Yeah i think it's very interesting that Holmes knows from the beginning that he is a difficult person to live with and while he doesn't change his behaviour he does make sure that he warns Watson what he is like and tries to make up for some of his more irritating moments (like by playing some of Watson's favourite music for example)

WIthout any spoilers, please, can anyone tell me if Watson does infact become more of an active partner, than an silent observer as the series goes on? Does he remain the chief cataloger, biographer-of sorts?

I like Watson. I usually picture him being something of a bumbling fool who is in awe of Sherlock. (Thanks to Nigel Bruce). But I love him here. Sherlock is less serious than I thought. And Watson is more serious than I expected.

I've finished the first part and I'm confused (view spoiler)[ is this one story with two parts or two stories in one book? If its the second I didn't care for the 'reveal' but I guess I just need to keep reading to see. (hide spoiler)]

Nyssa wrote: "WIthout any spoilers, please, can anyone tell me if Watson does infact become more of an active partner, than an silent observer as the series goes on? Does he remain the chief cataloger, biographe..."

Yes Watson is pretty much Holmes biographer but he does play a more active role in Holmes investigations as time the stories go on.

Nienna. Study in Scarlet is all one story but (view spoiler)[ from memory, part 2 basically is the backstory to what's happening "now" in part 1 if that makes sense. (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

I hope I didn't confuse anyone by talking about 2 stories. It's just the way I saw it.

**Frown** (view spoiler)[I don't care how close to death that poor dog was (the very fact of which was put there for the sole purpose of softening the blow, I'm sure), I find their euthanizing it, as a test of theory, to be callous and cruel!! (hide spoiler)]

Kathy wrote: "I hope I didn't confuse anyone by talking about 2 stories. It's just the way I saw it."

Nope. I confused myself ;)

But I am wondering (view spoiler)[ where the heck is Holmes & Watson? (hide spoiler)]

Paul wrote: "Nienna wrote: "I don't believe I have ever read any of the actual Sherlock Holmes stories... if I have it was in school and I've forgotten. I watched the movies with my grandmother (Basil Rathbone)..."

Do you have a favorite episode/movie of Brett as Holmes?

Nienna wrote: "Paul wrote: "Nienna wrote: "I don't believe I have ever read any of the actual Sherlock Holmes stories... if I have it was in school and I've forgotten. I watched the movies with my grandmother (Ba..."

Hmmm, that's a tough one. Probably one of the longer episodes, maybe Hound of the Baskervilles. Brett is just good in all of them though so it's hard to pick a favourite....although the Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle is nice and light-hearted.

Actually I've realised that I like any Holmes story where there is a country house in the middle of nowhere where Holmes and Watson can run around on the moors (Baskervilles, Speckled Band, Silver Blaze, Devils Foot immediately spring to mind but I think there's a whole bunch of others as well)

Paul wrote: "Nienna wrote: "Paul wrote: "Nienna wrote: "I don't believe I have ever read any of the actual Sherlock Holmes stories... if I have it was in school and I've forgotten. I watched the movies with my ..."

I watched a clip of Brett's Holmes online (I don't know which episode it was from) and I was impressed. I know 'Hound' already so I may watch that one.

Finished 'Study in Scarlet'- (view spoiler)[ I enjoyed Holmes and Watson. But the mystery was a little less enjoyable for me. And the middle (without Holmes and Watson) really dragged. I probably would've either stopped reading or skimmed if I wasn't reading it for a buddy read. The end did pick up again after the story came back to Holmes and Watson. First part was a 4 for me. Second part was a 2-3. (hide spoiler)]

Nienna wrote: "I like Watson. I usually picture him being something of a bumbling fool who is in awe of Sherlock. (Thanks to Nigel Bruce). But I love him here. Sherlock is less serious than I thought. And Watson ..."

That's one reason I really prefer the newer series (plural). I hate the portrayal of Watson as a bumbling fool. Even though he's the audience level everyman type character who, imo, does come off a bit dim in many of the stories, he's still a soldier and doctor.

Nienna wrote: "Finished 'Study in Scarlet'- [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ Yes I'm not sure what Conan Doyle was trying to accomplish with the middle section. It doesn't really add to the mystery and seems a bit unnecessary as it takes us away from our main characters. (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Ok, I finally finished and went back through unhiding all the spoilers you all posted and completely agree!

Overall, I found it very enjoyable. It was easy to read as someone also said and I felt like it was a good, enjoyable mystery.

(view spoiler)[ When part 2 started, though, I seriously started to panic that the copy on my e-reader was totally screwed up!! I had NO idea what was happening and wish there had been a bit more introduction to that. It wasn't until the name Stangerson popped up and the characters started to get fleshed out that I kind of realized where it was going. (hide spoiler)]

I think I'd give this a 3.5-4 rating. It was a really fun introduction to Holmes and Watson. As someone else said, I was kind of surprised at how nice/personable Holmes was, really. I will be interested to see how the friendship develops throughout the books/stories.

Oh and has anyone else read the Mary Russell/Sherlock Holmes series starting with The Beekeeper's Apprentice by Laurie R. King? It's set post the Doyle stories about Holmes, with Holmes as a real character who's new partner is an American female, Mary Russell. In those books, Watson is also treated as (view spoiler)[ more of a lovable, bumbling fool, (hide spoiler)] so I had imagined that that's how he was treated in the Doyle stories as well. I will be interested to see.

I've read the first several Mary Russell books, and I also disliked how Watson was portrayed in those books. I always figured they were more based on the movies. (I loved the first Mary Russell, but have sort of grown increasingly disillusioned... still plugging away, though, from time to time.)

After finishing with Holmes, whenever that may be, I think I might read Poe's detective stories with Dupin, since he was a forerunner to Holmes and is mentioned in 'Study in Scarlet'.

The 5th and 6th Mary Russell books (I think?) were my absolute favorites.

From my review I liked the 5th book second, after the first, but was a bit less thrilled with the 6th. I'll probably want to pick up the 8th by the time we're through with the Holmes read.


I really enjoyed the Enola Holmes series, which is an MG series about Sherlock's scandalously younger sister. Also so-so on the Watson portrayal, I found it interesting to see Sherlock through young eyes.

Have you guys started The Sign of Four yet? Or is that next week? I think I'm ahead of myself. lol

Well, if you stick with the schedule that you lot agreed to, Sign of Four doesn't actually start 'til the 16th.

I figured I was early. Thanks. :)

Anyone still reading Scarlet? I may go ahead and read on - I enjoyed the first one so much.

I haven't even started yet...

I didn't re-read it, so I'm totally ready to start Sign of Four anytime. :)

I think I'm dropping out of this one. I liked 'Scarlet' but I have a lot of stuff to get thru this month. If I change my mind I'll catch up later. So go ahead. :)

Finished 'Scarlet' the other night. As I said before, I've read Volume 1 before, so these aren't quite new to me - but it is interesting to reread them again with the BBC Sherlock so fresh in my mind. It was kind of cool to see some of the elements they kept - (view spoiler)[I remembered 'Rache' and how it was changed up between the story and the show, but I'd forgotten the original also included the two pills. (hide spoiler)]

I didn't mind Part 2 as much as some of you have mentioned. I do think it dragged a bit, and could've been shorted - but I liked getting some more of the backstory and motive that was more showy and less telly that some of the reveals in the short stories.

It also kind of starts you down the path of the (view spoiler)[sympathetic villain, which is sometimes an important part of the stories. (hide spoiler)]

***

As for the potrayal of Holmes, in a way I think I prefer the BBC version. In this story, he's more (view spoiler)[just an ass. In the BBC version he is an ass, yes, but he also just has a lack of social awareness. In this story, I felt almost like he was more socially aware, but was so pleased with himself he didn't care. Anyway, I think he came off more pompous and less charming in his assiness... (hide spoiler)]

I just started Sign of Four and I love that it opens with Sherlock telling Watson that he didn't like the divergence at the beginning of the second part of Watson's retelling of Scarlet. With you, Sherlock!

Anyone reading Adventures yet? I'm about 5 stories in and have found that I can do about 2 at a time before I'm ready to move on to something else.

That said, I really think that Doyle's writing and the Holmes stories lend themselves to a short story format. There's less of the diversions that didn't quite fit (for me) in the novellas, and a quick, satisfying case and solution in each little tale.

Anyone else have a preference between the novellas and the stories?

Not I. As I am trying to stick with the schedule you lot worked out, I figured I until March 2nd to finish Sign of Four - which I haven't started yet.

Yeah, I'm hoping to start Sign of Four soon, too. :)

Yeah I'm ignoring the schedule. ;)

Started 'Sign of Four'

I didn't like it quite as much as the first. I'll be interested to see what you think.

I finished this the other day, but never came back to comment.

I agree that I liked the first better. I did like the middle of this book, when the investigation was actively going on - but the set-up and reveal were a bit slow.

I do like seeing some of Holmes' familiar character traits and vices being introduced.

But, honestly, the thing that stands out for the most in this story is just how eye-rollingly schmaltzy the (view spoiler)[Watson and Mary thing is handled. I mean, I know it was a different time of all, but ye gods and little fishes it was bad. (hide spoiler)]

Yes! I totally agree. I hate that crap. I know I should be more forgiving of things that are appropriate for the time in which the book is set, but some stuff just always turns me off (insta-love, racism, sexism, etc.).

Oh, I'd almost forgotten about the racism in SoF, but damn there was a lot of it.

I haven't read it yet ... But please tell me Sherlock isn't one of the ones being racist.

I mean, (view spoiler)[ yes? But in a weird anti-aboriginals way that is presented more like "this is what everyone thinks" rather than "this is racist." I don't know - it's one of those things that maybe for the time period was just the way things were, but that I still find tough to swallow now. (hide spoiler)]

Yeah, it's more (view spoiler)[ cultural than specific. I mean, it's the time of British Imperialism with the whole White Man's Burden at it's worse... (hide spoiler)]

Holmes is notoriously (view spoiler)[misogynistic, (hide spoiler)] though.

Well - I'm dropping back in. Started Sign of Four yesterday and I have 60 pages to go. I actually like this one more than Study (so far anyway). This is more how I picture Holmes & Watson. In the first story they seemed younger and inexperienced. This one seems more mature.

And the dog Toby made me smile. One of my favorite movies as a kid was The Great Mouse Detective. :)