Reading the Chunksters discussion

Wow, I am loving this book! What were everyone's thoughts on this section?

Spoilers are welcome in this thread, but only on this and previous sections please.

What did you think of Wart and Merlyn's evolving relationship?

I just have to stay that I loved this, it cracked me up:

What do you think the weather looks like now?
It looks like an anti-cyclone.

That is how I want to start giving weather reports.

How is the weather?
It appears to be anti-rain today.

I'm still loving the story, and finding many humorous bits. I noticed some of the comments from the discussion on chapters 1-5 mentioned that the book doesn't stay humorous, or that there are more serious matters in the works. I don't really know the story of King Arthur or Merlyn, so I'm anxious, if not a bit sad, to find out what is to happen.

Knowing that Merlyn lives backwards and has this second sight as to what is to happen to Arthur, and that Merlyn is to teach Arthur and not Kay, is interesting. I find myself wondering what is to happen to Kay? Is he to become the King after Sir Ector? Or is something to happen so that Arthur is to become King instead of Kay? Or is Arthur to become King of another region? My knowledge of the story here is certainly lacking. I was also surprised to see Robin Hood (Wood?) make an appearance as I didn't realize these stories and characters were connected at all.

I found the castle of lard and butter and meat pretty grotesque yet funny. Funny in that the Queen would think it appetizing to a couple of young boys, but instead it just made their stomach turn.

I find this sentence towards the end of chapter 11 a bit troubling, for it seems to foreshadow something awful is to happen to all the renegades that helped march Wart and Kay to the castle:

The last stalk might have been a nightmare, but to Wart it was heavenly.

I love Wart for sticking up for Kay and asking Merlyn to turn Kay into an animal as he does for Wart. Even though Kay may not be so nice to Wart, Wart still loves him as a brother and wants the best for him.

I also loved the part where Merlyn loses his magician's cap and is unable to easily get it back until Archimedes tells him how to get it back simply:

Archimedes seemed to be accustomed to these scenes, for he now said in a reasonable voice: "Why don't you ask for the hat by name, master? Say, 'I want my magician's hat,' not 'I want the hat I was wearing.' Perhaps the poor chap finds it difficult to live backward as you do."

"I want my magician's hat," said Merlyn sukily.

Instantly the long pointed cone was standing on his head.

I also enjoyed the last part of this chapter where Merlyn is planning his naps while Wart and Kay are on their adventure:

"What shall I do before dinner, Archimedes?"

"Have a little nap, I expect," said the owl coldly, turning his back upon his master, because he, as well as the Wart, enjoyed to see life.

Silver wrote: "I just have to stay that I loved this, it cracked me up:

What do you think the weather looks like now?
It looks like an anti-cyclone.

That is how I want to start giving weather reports.

How is..."

Silver, I'm sorry to derail your plans, but an anticyclone is actually a real weather phenomenon! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticyclone

I was also surprised to see Robin Hood, Maid Marion and his band show up! I didn't enjoy this section as much as the previous one, I'm not exactly sure why. I wasn't that engaged with the whole bird/merlin thing, I guess.

Victoria wrote: "Silver wrote: "I just have to stay that I loved this, it cracked me up:

What do you think the weather looks like now?
It looks like an anti-cyclone.

That is how I want to start giving weather re..."

That is interesting

Silver wrote: "Victoria wrote: "Silver wrote: "I just have to stay that I loved this, it cracked me up:

What do you think the weather looks like now?
It looks like an anti-cyclone.

That is how I want to start ..."

I still think you should give the weather this way...

I just finished the first book, so I will try to contain myself. I love how the author adds other legends to the mix (ie Robin Wood). And am I the only one who finds it hilarious that people in this book treat adventures and quests as a simple occurrence of life? It's like, Oh I'm bored today, shall we go on a quest?

Andrea wrote: And am I the only one who finds it hilarious that people in this book treat adventures and quests as a simple occurrence of life? It's like, Oh I'm bored today, shall we go on a quest?

You're right! Yes, funny indeed. I don't have the book with me so I can't remember exactly what led to this, but I liked when Wart, Kay, et al were headed to the lard castle and Kay said "after all, this is my adventure!".

Linda wrote: " Andrea wrote: And am I the only one who finds it hilarious that people in this book treat adventures and quests as a simple occurrence of life? It's like, Oh I'm bored today, shall we go on a qu..."

I was just thinking of that. I do find it quite amusing that the knights seem to almost have no real purpose. They just wander around aimlessly hoping to stumble upon some random quest.

They just go around doing the kind of things that knights are supposed to do without any real rhyme or reason, other than the fact they do it because that is what knights do.

Like the jousting match between King Pellinore and Sir Grummore

"What should we fight for"

"Oh the usual reasons"

Oh yes, how could I forget? I did love that jousting scene, that was great! I could entirely envision that in my mind, with them getting up a head of steam and then running (or lumbering) past each other!

Linda wrote: "Knowing that Merlyn lives backwards and has this second sight as to what is to happen to Arthur, and that Merlyn is to teach Arthur and not Kay, is interesting. I find myself wondering what is to happen to Kay? Is he to become the King after Sir Ector? Or is something to happen so that Arthur is to become King instead of Kay? Or is Arthur to become King of another region?"

I don't think Sir Ector is a king. He is just a knight who owns an estate which Kay will inherit, and right now, they all think this means Kay will be superior to Wart, because as far as they know Wart has nothing to inherit.

I liked the part with the birds! I like that Wart is being taught how it actually feels to be somebody else, including somebody in the animal kingdom. I think it will make him very sympathetic to all creatures.

It's a pity that Kay can't learn this too but I thought it was nice that Kay got to have an adventure and I hope it turns out well for him. I don't think Kay is a bad person but in the way of older brothers he tends to boss the younger one around.

Rosemary wrote: I don't think Sir Ector is a king. He is just a knight who owns an estate which Kay will inherit, and right now, they all think this means Kay will be superior to Wart, because as far as they know Wart has nothing to inherit.

Thanks for the clarification, Rosemary - that makes sense now. I guess I should have figured that out since he is referred to as "Sir Ector" and not "King Ector".

Actually the part about knights looking for quests in this books is very similar to what I'm reading right now in Don Quixote. How extraordinary some coincidences can be!

White is actually very inventive with senses that are beyond human understanding: like fish's sight, or bird's perspective during flight. That's something that really stands out to me after reading the first two parts.

Just read the joust scene last night in bed, maybe not the best decision as my hubby kept waking up asking "what's with all the giggling?" It is too funny. Best part of the book so far.

I thought I would enjoy this book more. I'm currently in the second section and enjoying it a bit more, but The Sword in the Stone was just too childish to me. I did appreciate some of the humor and how the author brings in anachronisms in the storytelling, but I'm just not loving this.

Kelley, I'm a little ho-hum on this book as well, but not so bored that I wont continue reading it.

For clarification- I think that White is basically taking all things from English folklore and jumbling them together. I've never before seen Robin Hood/Wood tied in any way to King Arthur. Still I liked seeing Maid Marian's prominence in this section, and that the boys at first were too puffed up to think much of being placed with a "girl" but quickly learned she had much to teach them.


You know, I apologize if we've said anything to give away the tale of King Arthur to people not familiar with the Legend. I grew up with folklore and other mythologies being prominent in my house. I've watched probably every Merlin/Arthur show there is. Sometimes I forget that its not as well known to others. Its like the time we went to go see 300 and my husband leaned over and said "DONT TELL ME WHAT HAPPENS." I was confused, its thousands of years old history, nothing is going to change what happened, except that he has never studied Classical War so he had no idea what would happen, and it was all new to him. So, I think we've already said the story of Arthur gets dark, but all old stories ended darkly. But I'll be careful what I say from now on.

Becky wrote: You know, I apologize if we've said anything to give away the tale of King Arthur to people not familiar with the Legend. I grew up with folklore and other mythologies being prominent in my house. I've watched probably every Merlin/Arthur show there is. Sometimes I forget that its not as well known to others.

No worries from my end, Becky! This is one of those classic stories which most people tend to know at least some of. I don't know how I've managed not to see the movies (or maybe I didn't pay attention at the time) that this legend is based upon. I just meant that it made me sad to know that the fun, humorous bits were not meant to last, not that I was disappointed that someone gave anything away. :)

One questions for everyone:

What did you think about the fact that Merlyn couldn't do anything magically for Kaye. He said something about he wasn't sent here with the ability to do that.

Does this imply that Merlyn's tutoring of Arthur is some sort of Divine Intervention (the original tales of Arthur is very religious) or that Kaye doesn't possess the belief/imagination that Arthur does, and so couldn't be affected by the magic in the same way?

Most of what I know of King Arthur comes from the movie Excalibur and the book The Mists of Avalon. Great movie and great book (two different stories, I wrote that kind of unclearly).

Becky wrote: "One questions for everyone:

What did you think about the fact that Merlyn couldn't do anything magically for Kaye. He said something about he wasn't sent here with the ability to do that.

Does th..."

I was wondering this myself and if anyone has any thoughts on this.

Becky wrote: "Does this imply that Merlyn's tutoring of Arthur is some sort of Divine Intervention (the original tales of Arthur is very religious)"

He's training Wart to become the once and future king, i.e., the king to save Britain when his time comes (this will be subject in book 4). And he's been sent. I have read the series before (I hope I'm not giving away too much), but cannot remember if Merlyn ever reveals where he came from exactly. But there seem to be strict rules concerning the use of magic.

Also, Merlyn knows what will happen because of his living backwards. So every intervention could change the course of the future, right?

I'd also recommend having the original Malory book at hand. A lot of the epics structure and topoi are preserved in Whites work, they are only hidden, some like easter eggs. Some details really start to make sense when you know a bit about Arthurian romance.

Becky wrote: "Does this imply that Merlyn's tutoring of Arthur is some sort of Divine Intervention (the original tales of Arthur is very religious)"

He's training Wart to become the once and future king, i.e., the king to save Britain when his time comes (this will be subject in book 4). And he's been sent. I have read the series before (I hope I'm not giving away too much), but cannot remember if Merlyn ever reveals where he came from exactly. But there seem to be strict rules concerning the use of magic.

Also, Merlyn knows what will happen because of his living backwards. So every intervention could change the course of the future, right?

I'd also recommend having the original Malory book at hand. A lot of the epics structure and topoi are preserved in Whites work, they are only hidden, some like easter eggs. Some details really start to make sense when you know a bit about Arthurian romance.

Victoria wrote: "I was also surprised to see Robin Hood, Maid Marion and his band show up! I didn't enjoy this section as much as the previous one, I'm not exactly sure why. I wasn't that engaged with the whole b..."

I didn't either, in fact, this aspect of the novel (intermixing of tales) which I speculate may continue till the end, places a different spin on the traditional Arthurian story-A spin to engage a younger reader? Somebody else, had mentioned in a previous thread that the story becomes much darker as we continue to progress in our reading. That being said, do you think that this first portion of the book with Wart and Kay as children is very light hearted and even humorous to depict the carefree mindset of children? I think the transition in tone as the book continues will go hand in hand with the growing and maturing of Wart and Kay.

Now, despite my not liking the mixing of tales, I'm still very intrigued as to who else I might meet while continuing to read…You know?

Iselin wrote: "Becky wrote: "Does this imply that Merlyn's tutoring of Arthur is some sort of Divine Intervention (the original tales of Arthur is very religious)"

He's training Wart to become the once and futur..."

I LOVE that you brought this up! Being somewhat familiar with Arthurian folklore, I too am noticing so many "hidden easter eggs-" So much foreshadowing!
I think it's safe to say that Wart is destined for a promising future and we know this from the passage where Wart is having a discussion with Merlyn about how he thinks knighthood will never be in his future. Merlyn is seen, unbeknownst to Wart, smirking…Wouldn't you consider this an "egg?" Merlyn, who is our very own Arthurian Benjamin Button, knows the thought Wart has for his future is far from correct-Merlyn's already lived Wart's truth…No?

What about when Wart shot the arrow straight up into the air and a crow flying by caught it and went on its way. Kay's response to this occurrence was that the crow was a witch…Enter Morgan Le Fey in Wart's future-Something dark is on the rise?

Also, all of the little morphing session adventures are calculated lessons Merlyn imparts onto Wart: compassion for those in need of help (meeting the roach when turned into a perch), understanding a dictatorship may not be the best way to rule (discussion with King Pike who has a similar appearance to Uncle Sam…Yikes!), there's also the incident with the Mews ( I'm not sure of what the lesson was here except that in the end they refer to Wart as a King for being victorious after accomplishing a senseless act…Any ideas?). The lessons learned through these experiences, I think, are responsible for shaping the type of king Wart will be.

I haven't read all the posts yet, but this line literally made me laugh out loud:

"Slowly and majestically, the ponderous horses lumbered into a walk." Lol, I guess with all of the jousting, I was imaging a high-speed gallop, and this sounds so anti-climactic!

Alana wrote: "I haven't read all the posts yet, but this line literally made me laugh out loud:

"Slowly and majestically, the ponderous horses lumbered into a walk." Lol, I guess with all of the jousting, I was..."

The whole episode with the jousting is so far removed from what I would have expected-More Monty Python than anything else. White seems to be poking fun at the seriousness of the traditional joust and at how serious the knights take themselves to the point of absurdity. Perhaps it's yet another lesson for young Wart (like Art :)).

Alana wrote: "I haven't read all the posts yet, but this line literally made me laugh out loud:

"Slowly and majestically, the ponderous horses lumbered into a walk." Lol, I guess with all of the jousting, I was..."

Ha! Yes, I remember laughing at this line also!! :)

Silver wrote: "I just have to stay that I loved this, it cracked me up:

What do you think the weather looks like now?
It looks like an anti-cyclone.

That is how I want to start giving weather reports.

How is..."

This made me laugh, too! But I didn't realize it was an actual weather phenomenon. I do like the idea of the weather, though... for example, it is anti-warm outside right now!

Linda wrote: "I'm still loving the story, and finding many humorous bits. I noticed some of the comments from the discussion on chapters 1-5 mentioned that the book doesn't stay humorous, or that there are more..."

Agree with this entire post! I really like Archimedes. He's so dryly funny! "Just ask for it by name, dummy."

And yes, the Robin Hood/Wood thing was completely random. I did really enjoy Marian, though: depicted not as a weak woman, nor as domineering, but as feminine and beautiful yet woodsy and able to take care of herself. I love that the boys come to admire and respect her as time goes on.

Andrea wrote: "I just finished the first book, so I will try to contain myself. I love how the author adds other legends to the mix (ie Robin Wood). And am I the only one who finds it hilarious that people in thi..."

Exactly! Lol, I should start doing that at work. "I think I'll go on a quest today." :)

Becky wrote: "Kelley, I'm a little ho-hum on this book as well, but not so bored that I wont continue reading it.

For clarification- I think that White is basically taking all things from English folklore and j..."

True, I'll have to remember this as well. I know some about Arthurian legend, but not tons, but being that it's legend and folklore rather than and individual novel, I don't mind if someone shares "spoilers" with me. It's like Roman or Greek mythology; half of it is mixed up depending on who wrote the tale, so some of them don't even agree or follow a chronological pattern, so learning about one of these gods/goddesses doesn't make me go "Hey, now, I wanted to finish the book first!" but merely go "Huh, I never knew that!"

Becky wrote: "One questions for everyone:

What did you think about the fact that Merlyn couldn't do anything magically for Kaye. He said something about he wasn't sent here with the ability to do that.

Does th..."

I was thinking more of the latter, but the former sounds likely, too, that he was only "sent" for Arthur, therefore has not been given authority regarding magic for Kay. It will be interesting to see how that develops through the rest of the book.

Alana wrote: "Exactly! Lol, I should start doing that at work. "I think I'll go on a quest today." :) "

My husband sometimes asks our 7 year old son after school and work "Tell me about all your adventures today." Your post reminded me of that. :)

I thought the introduction of Robin within the story was interesting. I really liked the portrayal of Maid Marian within that scene. and I also thought it was interesting the way in which White seemed to draw on different stories.

I did like the idea that Robin Hood was really named Robin Wood. I liked that bit of play of a misunderstanding with the name emerging from the pronunciation of it.

The warning to Wart and Kay not to eat anything brings to mind Greek Mythology, and of course the house being made out of food makes one think of Hansel and Gretal.

Overall, I am really enjoying this book. The jousting passage was hilarious. I was laughing so loudly, I'm sure my neighbor was wondering what was going on in my apartment. I like the authors writing style, including the use of intentional anachronisms and mashing together of various myths. The only thing I didn't like was the use of the n-word. It was really jarring and jolted me out of the story for a while. It was so unnecessary. Up until that point, this book didn't feel dated.

Anne wrote: "The only thing I didn't like was the use of the n-word. It was really jarring and jolted me out of the story for a while. It was so unnecessary. Up until that point, this book didn't feel dated."

That was an odd moment, and I did not quite understand why Cully was making modern references. I understand Merlin doing it because it is explained about him being born backward and I know they said Cully is not right in the head, but it did not make sense to me when he was ranting why he would be talking about things that happened in the future.