Messenger discussion

what i dont get is the whole killing forest thing. the forest acts on it's on free will and has the ability to kill people. at the end they say the whole thing was an illusion, but if it truly was, how can it kill people like it killed Matty?!? can an illusion kill people?!? if you have an answer please let me know

I think that when they said it was an illusion, they meant that people who went through imagined some of the things that happened to them. Such as branches purposefully reaching out at them. But the forest was sort of alive in a magical way. After all, it did have all those parts when they pointed out that the forest didn't want them there. This world is obviously not the same as our earth, there are too many weird un-ordinary things going on. So having a forest that tries to keep you out is not so unusual... So in a way, it was an illusion, but in a way, it wasn't...

I didn't like the ending for this one very much. I liked the Giver and Gathering Blue, but even though the Giver was the 1st book (I
think) I didn't think it fit very well with the Gathering Blue, though Gathering Blue and The Messanger fit together fine.

I agree with Clare concerning your question about the forest. I feel it was alive and an illusion at the same time. I almost had a feeling of their illusion of themselves and their important selfish "trading" was reflected in the forest illusions. Anyway, hard for me to describe, but I thought Clare described it well.

On another note, I disagree with Clare about the ending. I loved the ending! It was shocking and new for Lois Lowry. I thought it was appropriate; people have to suffer/pay for their sins. Sometimes those that have sinned suffer their consequences through seeing their actions hurt those they love and care for. I felt Lois was trying to display this a little. For me, she had to make the ending this way to show this lesson in her book. The Village had to loose Matty to remember not to fall back into their selfish ways; thus, the forest was a relection of the selfishness just like the forest was being selfish to take lives.

This was probably my favorite of the three--The Giver was amazing too. Gathering Blue was a typical middle book--had too many fillers and not enough moral, but I still really liked it, but I think you have to read Gathering Blue to appreciate Messenger.

Wow! Did I actually make some sense?! That would be a first for me!!! Haha

I have to agree with Melissa on the ending for The Messenger... It was shocking, and in a way, and it was a long time ago when I read it... It was so different from the all happy endings I was used to, so I remember being disapointed in it, but I think if I read it now, since my choice in books has widened, I would probably like it more. It has the right amount of desperate saddness that I want in books I read now (I am kind of sick of books that always end happily, but I still don't like books where everyone dies in the end... thats just depressing)... I just thought that maybe she should have made the book a little longer. After all, she said he died and that was the end. What about everyone who loved him? I think it would have made the book a little better if she had added their reations. Maybe make his death seem more worth it. But then again, at the time that read the book, maybe I wouldn't have. So did that make any sense? lol, I doubt it!

Clare, I'd recommend reading it again. It may have a different feeling for you the second time. The first few seconds after finishing the book, I had several emotions that occured very rapidly: sadness, relief, joy, and confusion. It was great! I like books that are thought provoking and make me "feel." I agree; I too am kind of tired of the books that have too perfect of endings. It makes me crazy and annoyed. I liked the ending just the way it was. I understand feeling empty a little after this ending but that seems to be Lois's way of writing. The Giver was way dramatic in its ending so abruptly. There are still discussions about its ending because its an open ending. Anyway, I felt Messenger was as closed as I needed it to be. I felt there was no other way for the selfishness to end properly and it was such a great analogy. Again, Messenger is my favorite of the three books! PS: You did make sense! :)

I think I will get it again. Lois Lowry has such an interesting way of writing. And I'm glad I made sense! haha

Was Forest a reflection of Village? As Village closed its doors, Forest also began to tighten its grip... and then, when Matty made the ultimate altruistic sacrifice, Forest the loosened its grip. Was Forest teaching the Villagers a lesson?
I still don't understand why it attacked some people as they came through, though.

Shannon,
Yes, I agree. The Forest was a "reflection" of the village. When the village was selfish the forest became selfish. That's what I took from it. I also believe the forest started to attack people because the "trading" started many years ago. As the trading of qualities became worse, the forest became worse gradually too. It was a gradual process--as selfishness is. A person doesn't wake up one day and decide to become selfish it's a gradual process of one less give and one more take at a time. Just as the forest took lives one at a time gradually and warned people gradually. These are just my thoughts on it.

Sella wrote: "what i dont get is the whole killing forest thing. the forest acts on it's on free will and has the ability to kill people. at the end they say the whole thing was an illusion, but if it truly was,..."

No the forest was symbolic for all the "bad things" like selfishness, hatred, and lies in the comunity. When you think about it the fact that it could actully kill people just makes you think about how much the small things can affect us. I think for the most part its just and exageration to make us think.

What I don't understand entirely is why Forest turned on Matty.

yeah seeing as he was the only one able to go through without getting killed i hated when matty died i thought it was some sort of mistake because he was such a good guy.

WAIT MATTY DIES????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Giver showed us that trying to escape pain and heart ache would cost us our an important aspect of life, individuality.

Gathering Blue showed us that strength isnt about the shape of our body, but the shape of our heart.

The Messenger showed us the benefit of selflessness. Do for other is better than doing for yourself.

I think the forest took the shape of the world itself. When Matty healed the world, it was the type of world that hurt for people who truly loved each other.

Sella wrote: "what i dont get is the whole killing forest thing. the forest acts on it's on free will and has the ability to kill people. at the end they say the whole thing was an illusion, but if it truly was,..."
The real illusion is the one far too many people have about Lowry's ability to deliver a well-rounded story. All three of The Giver books have mysteries that are too undeveloped and end up as bothersome untied loose ends. The Forest is just one of many. What happens to the Trademaster for instance? After the everyone is mystically healed of their selfishness by Matty's sacrifice where does he go? Trademaster is clearly representative of humanity's inner dark nature, the uncontrolled ego, etc. and yet Lowry drops him right out of the picture without so much as a word in passing.

Iain wrote: "Sella wrote: "what i dont get is the whole killing forest thing. the forest acts on it's on free will and has the ability to kill people. at the end they say the whole thing was an illusion, but if..."

I see your frustration, because i too would have like to have heard about what utopian way of life that those of this strange world embraced.

But I also feel as though the utopia that all these villages strived for couldn't be found because the utopia that WE, human beings, need is within ourselves.

Not new agey self identity, but rather the acceptance that the world around is as dark or bright as we perceive it to be...and in addition to that, that whether we perceive it to be bright or dark...there are things that are out of our control, like the Trademaster, that will challenge how light or dark our world truly is.

Shannon wrote: "Was Forest a reflection of Village? As Village closed its doors, Forest also began to tighten its grip... and then, when Matty made the ultimate altruistic sacrifice, Forest the loosened its grip..."

Good point, Shannon! I never picked that up about Village closing its doors and Forest not wanting anyone to enter!

Well, since Son is the final book in the series, I'm assuming all those 'loose ends' get tied up! Let's hope so!

Judy wrote: "Well, since Son is the final book in the series, I'm assuming all those 'loose ends' get tied up! Let's hope so!"

wait, there is a forth book????

Yes, There's a fourth book. Many of the 'old' characters are in there along with a few new ones. It kind of gives 'closure' to the series.

Sella wrote: "what i dont get is the whole killing forest thing. the forest acts on it's on free will and has the ability to kill people. at the end they say the whole thing was an illusion, but if it truly was,..."

In the Author interview she said that the forest portrayed:

"His Forest represents the tangled forces of human greed and misery, the things that keep us separated as humans in a complex world."

Sella wrote: "what i dont get is the whole killing forest thing. the forest acts on it's on free will and has the ability to kill people. at the end they say the whole thing was an illusion, but if it truly was,..."
Hi Sella I think the author didn't mean it in a literal way. As you can see, throughout the book the forest is mimicking Village's actions so basically acting like a mirror towards them meaning not a forest but just a mirror of their own actions such as greed, selfishness and overall negative emotions. Making the forest hostile and "moody". The illusion she spoke of was not the forest but what people thought it was doing verses what it was actually doing. Hope this helped <3 have a good day :)
-Ellie

SpreadYourWings wrote: "WAIT MATTY DIES????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Aww u didnt read the end? lol im so sorry but ye it got me tearin up too :*( it was one of the more graphic books though so i kind of expected it showing from how the book was going

I think what they meant by Forest being an illusion was that Forest was only scary if you thought it was scary. I think Forest is a living thing, and it was attacking people, but how Forest acts is based off of how people are acting, and that's why when Trademaster came and people traded their deepest selves, Forest started "thickening." People started acting selfish and cruel, so Forest started to become dark and dangerous as well. At the end, when Matty uses his power to heal people's deepest selves, Forest becomes bright and (somewhat) friendly again because the people are as well.