The Next Best Book Club discussion

Oh cool! You will enjoy.

Not one of the most riveting essays by itself, but "City of Water" gives interesting and scary insight into Boston's recent catastrophic water supply fail.

Lisa wrote: "I have several from the library...
The 5 Big Lies About American Business: Combating Smears Against the Free-Market Economy
Memories of Ice
Sabriel
[book:..."

I really enjoyed the Abhorsen trilogy. If you end up liking Sabriel then you will love Lirael and Abhorsen.

The Rice Mothernext...

and maybe The Memoirs of Cleopatra, although I should probably reread Wideacre for my book club.

Decisions, decisions.

I just spent like an hour figuring out the next steps in my methodical trek through history. Finally got it!

The Name of the Rose, Umberto Eco (set in 1327)
Piers Plowman (written in late 1300s)
1453: The Holy War for Constantinople and the Clash of Islam and the West

And that oughtta finally finish the Middle Ages and on into the Renaissance and Reformation. Whee!

Finished The DecameronI am picking up Let Us Now Praise Famous Menfrom the library.

Alex wrote: "NOOOOOO 100 Years! Shut up Kathy! Let's fight over which book Michelle should read next. :P

Fiona, I've found out that re-learning history on my own time with my own books is way more fun than ..."

Alex i agree with re-learning history on your own time with books of your choice. Strangely enough a history professor I had once gave us novels as assigned reading which were historical fiction by E.L. Doctorow but it perked my interested and stayed with me longer than reading out of a text book. It intrigued me enough to get my hands on as much information as possible and consider changing my major. If you have any good books let me know.I am open to any history at this point. I am considering going back and getting my Masters in Library Science and want to specialize in history, literature and foreign language.

Oh snap Carol, you're already done with Boccaccio? Where've you been on our thread about it?

I finished Day 7 this past week.

Lekeshua, it's been a ton of fun. And your history professor sounds like a smart guy. "Good books" is pretty broad, ha...if you're into a specific history period, I might have recommendations, depending on whether I've covered it or not. (As you can see, I'm somewhere around the 1300s right now.)

For a general overview, Roger Osborne's Civilization: A New History of the Western World is startlingly good; I usually don't trust broad overviews like this, but he's pulled it off almost miraculously.

Thanks Alex. I'm going to look into Roger Osborne and other wide range for now and see which era or country I fall in love with. Then I'll see if your able to recommend anything.

Of course, as you might guess from the title, Osborne's book focuses exclusively on "Western" civilization - Europe and the US. I plan to get into Asian history whenever I'm done here. That'll be a whole Thing...I gather there's, y'know, quite a bit of it.

For pre-Columbian American societies, Charles Mann's 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus is mind-blowing.

In the Islamic world, Hugh Kennedy's written a series of good books like When Baghdad Ruled the Muslim World: The Rise And Fall of Islam's Greatest Dynasty.

I have yet to find a good overview of African history; books I've seen or read tend to focus on European interference in Africa, which is useful knowledge but I'd like to know more about what Africans were doing before Europe got their grimy little hands into it.

Come to think of it Alex I don't think I've come across any text about Africa pre-Euro. That sounds likes fun research project. Up for the challenge?

Absolutely! Have you dropped by the Great African Reads club? They're cool folks - a wide range of people interested in or living in various parts of Africa. Seems like a good place to look; maybe someone there will have ideas.

Thanks Alex. I am checking that group out now.

Wait.. what? You're reading through history? I really want to thieve that idea from you and make it a personal challenge. What did you start with?

Gilgamesh, of course! And then Homer. It's a gang of fun - it's neat when you get to the Aeneid and see all the allusions to the Odyssey, and then Dante references the Aeneid, and on and on.

Oh good! I already have Gilgamesh! Makes sense, I wasn't sure if you were doing literature or just non-fiction written about the era. So do you follow throught the power bases of western civilization? Or are you more broad? Did you read all of Homer's works or just histories? Sorry about the uber-questionnaire, but I want to start compiling a list. :)

I'm generally alternating between history and literature - so after Gilgamesh I read Georges Roux's Ancient Iraq.

Yeah, basically the big dogs of Western Civ - Greece, Rome, all of Europe during the Middle Ages. I've also kept up with the Muslim world, but not read much literature from it other than some of Arabian Nights.

In Greece, after Homer's Iliad and Odyssey I read some Sophocles, Aristophanes and Plato. I skipped Herodotus, Thucydides and Aeschylus because I wanted to move on; I'll hit them eventually (I hope). I'd love to debate your list with you; I've had so much fun with this, it's great to agonize over whether this or that book is the right one.

Alex wrote: "Of course, as you might guess from the title, Osborne's book focuses exclusively on "Western" civilization - Europe and the US. I plan to get into Asian history whenever I'm done here. That'll be..."

Alex, Ibn Battuta In Black Africa is an interesting read. If you are looking for an epic tale try The Epic of Askia Mohammed or Sundiata: An Epic of Old Mali , Longman African Writers Series.

Next up for me will be either A Beautiful Place to Die by Malla Nunn or Snow Angels by James Thompson

Oh, I've been eyeing that Ibn Battuta book! He's a wicked interesting dude, huh? So cool to get a recommendation from someone who's actually read it. Thanks!

He's definitely interesting. =)

Alex wrote: "I'm generally alternating between history and literature - so after Gilgamesh I read Georges Roux's Ancient Iraq.

Yeah, basically the big dogs of Western Civ - Greece, Rome, all of E..."

Did you like Ancient Iraq? The reading for that era seems to be limited based on what I searched for, do you have an opinion on The Sumerians: Their History, Culture, and Character? I'm afraid it might be outdated, but it's rating and reviews are decent. I've already read Gilgamesh, so I'm thinking I'll see if I can find a book that has the Laments of the cities and/or the legends of Enmerkar and Lugalbanda too. They seem pretty short all together. Inanna, Lady of Largest Heart : Poems of the Sumerian High Priestess Enheduanna also sounds Awesome.

Ashley, I haven't read Something Happened yet, but I have had friends who hated it and then refused to read Catch-22 because of it. I hope you like it more, but if you don't, I hope it won't turn you off from reading Catch-22 because that's a great book.

Yeah, I liked Ancient Iraq quite a bit. I kinda lost steam toward the end, but that's my fault not Roux's; actually the stuff near the end is probably more interesting. I think I was just having a bad week.

I haven't read The Sumerians, sorry.

If you can find a book with the Laments, Enmerkar and Lugalbanda, let me know; I'll probably come along. That's a cool idea. And same if you buy Inanna. I hadn't heard of Enheduanna (which doesn't mean Roux didn't mention her - might just mean I forgot).

Shannon wrote: "In absolutely no order...
Fever Dream- Douglas Preston & Lincoln Child
The Madonnas of Leningrad- Debra Dean
The Secret Scripture- Sebastian Barry
The Library at NIght- Alberto Manguel
Await Y..."
Read the man from St. Petersburg many years ago and liked it very much, I'll look for the Library at Night as i like Manguel's essays.

"If you can find a book with the Laments, Enmerkar and Lugalbanda, let me know; I'll probably come along. That's a cool idea. And same if you buy Inanna. I hadn't heard of Enheduanna (which doesn't mean Roux didn't mention her - might just mean I forgot)."

I was looking at The Harps That Once . . .: Sumerian Poetry in Translation, because reviews state it as being more emotionally accurate. However The Literature of Ancient Sumer is said to be a more literal translation and includes (I believe) the Lugalbanda and Enmerkar legends, possibly the laments as well, but a reviewer says it lacks the poetry of the former. (and it's 45 bucks, so a definite library search for me) I think this is going to be a multi-book thing. Especially because now that I'm researching it I'm getting all interested and want to read them all. o.o Realistically I'll at least read Inanna and Gilgamesh

I'm also considering Myths from Mesopotamia: Creation, the Flood, Gilgamesh, and Others

Y'know...you're pretty cool, Madeline. I'm psyched to be having this conversation.

Yeesh, even used Literature of Ancient Sumer is $30.

I liked this dude's review of Harps That Once... in which he correctly points out that since we don't really even know Sumerian, it's all guesswork.

I went ahead and ordered Harps That Once. (Awkward title, that.)

Yay, Fiona!

Finished Italy in Mind, finishing The Speed of Dark by Elizabeth Moon and starting Champlain's Dream by David Hackett Fisher, a monster of over 600 pages with charts, illustrations , appendixes. But Interesting!!

Alex wrote: "Y'know...you're pretty cool, Madeline. I'm psyched to be having this conversation.

Yeesh, even used Literature of Ancient Sumer is $30.

I liked this dude's review of Harps That Once... in which ..."

Me too! I thought I might be bugging you haha. Good to know you're enjoying it! :)

I liked that review too, I agreed with what he said about Hades being a really stupid name for underworld in Sumerian literature (maybe not those exact terms ^_^). I would have noticed and felt it was wrong while reading it. However, I'm going to read it anyway, with the knowledge that it's all individual interpretation. That crazy Oxford version isn't at my library and Harps is affordable and generally well recommended.

So to start I'm going with:
The Harps That Once . . .: Sumerian Poetry in Translation
Gilgamesh (I'm not sure which edition I own. Hopefully it's a good one.)
Inanna, Lady of Largest Heart : Poems of the Sumerian High Priestess Enheduanna

followed by:

Ancient Iraq: Third Edition

I feel like this should be a boardgame. For each book/era you get to move further ahead on the board until you reach "home" or the 21st century. (This might be crazy talk.) There could be spaces that provide detours into cultural topics North African, Middle Eastern, Norse, religious etc. based on their influence in the time of your current "era" on the board.

Did you do any Egyptian or Akkadian? I kinda thought I might hop over there before I went full into Greek... I may never make it to A.D. hah

Yesterday I counted the shelves of books I had in our home - 14 upstairs and another 12 down for a total of approximately 900 books. I plan to live to 100 and what will happen to my treasures? I'll begin with the bookcase by my bed, reading and rereading, then give the book away. Top row: Eliz George and PD James (Over a dozen) Shall I countdown from the 900 as I go?

Morning Madeline,

I agreed also about Hades. It seems silly to use that term.

Ha...I like the boardgame idea.

One thing I've certainly noticed: it gets harder as I move forward. In ancient Greece, for example, there's an accepted body of work to choose from: Sophocles, Aeschylus, Aristophanes, Herodotus, Thucydides, Plato...it's a longish list, but a finite one. But what's the list for the 19th century? With the advent of printing and spread of literacy, the list of important books becomes endless. And we know so much more about later eras that there's infinite information available on every crevice of history. It gets harder to choose my path.

But then, that's the fun of it.

For Egypt, I did Barbara Mertz's wonderfully readable duet, Temples, Tombs, and Hieroglyphs and Red Land, Black Land: Daily Life in Ancient Egypt. I did not read the Book of the Dead because, frankly, I flipped through it and it looked kinda boring. (I know, I'm a wuss.) And I have a biography of Cleopatra by Joyce Tyldesley, who has a whole series of bios of (mainly female) Egyptians, on my shelf.

Roux deals with the Akkadians, somewhat briefly; that's all I got.

I gave that area somewhat short shrift; if you end up taking a more substantial detour, I may join you there as well. Any period I've already covered is fair game for revisiting, as I'm about to do with Harps That Once.

Yeah, it's a loooong project. I started well over a year ago. More of a life-long mission, really. But I can't think of anything better to do with my life than try to read everything important that's ever been written. :)

Natalie - giving them away?! Noooo! I always picture myself as an old guy, surrounded by mountains of books I've read and loved, revisiting them. And I will have a crazy beard. Never thought about what happens to them when I die, though. Maybe I'll build a mausoleum out of them.

My next will be my monthly bookclub read:

Honolulu by Alan Brennert

Hey F1! Just saw this review for Under Heaven, a big-ass novel about medieval China. The review's lukewarm, but I'm still a little tempted. And it looks up your alley.

Madeline and Alex, you guys crack me up. Had to go back several posts to figure out what you were talking about. I'm sort of envious because I have not heard of many of the books you are talking about. But I know it's always fun to find new genres and books to read. I love the idea of reading through history. My history class in high school was greatly lacking, so I have to say I feel very ignorant when it comes to the world. But alternating between literature and history is an incredible idea. Alex, do you read both at the same time or read one then the other? (I'm a read one book at a time person, so I'm debating the which one to start with concept in my head. The whole chicken and egg question.) Which areas did you guys start in? Middle East? I'm interested to follow your conversation. :).

We should really start a new thread for this - for every Hannah there are probably 20 people who would like us to shut the heck up about our musty old junk. :P

My history classes in high school sucked too; it's been eye-opening to read this stuff and realize that history is actually sortof interesting. And that everything I learned was wrong.

I alternate. Despite what my current reading list says, I'm generally a one-book guy as well. Whether it's literature or non-fiction first depends on circumstance.

We start with Gilgamesh, the oldest known book (arguably, okay), in the cradle of civilization: the Middle East.

On the other hand, I had two years of Ancient History in highschool (required) and nary a word about the world after 500 AD. I won't touch that old stuff today but am looking for suggestions on 500 to 2000.

Yay! Thanks Hannah for being the catalyst in giving this conversation a place of its own. I'll head over there to talk about the musty junk. :)

I think the board game would finally trump Monopoly for length of play! hah

I think if I hadn't been into art/drawing I would have majored in History. As is I've often wished I had more extensive knowledge, then Alex said he was doing this self-taught history thing starting at the "beginning" and I thought WOOoooO that's exactly what I wanna do!

Hannah, I think I'm going to start with the literature first. The era in their own words, followed by the history. I only hope that I won't feel I would have understood better had I read the history first!

Madeline, I find I learn and retain more from literature than history anyway. :)

I'm reading House Rules next, simply because I am moving and do not have any other books. Anyone read it? Are there any other good books about Asperberger's? (no idea how to spell that, so I apologize..)

Funny Natalie, I had the opposite experience. My history classes focused almost exclusively on the Western World since 1492, leaving me far more interested in the old stuff.

I think I might have majored in History...if my high school history teachers hadn't done such a terrific job of convincing me that it was boring and stupid. It took like a decade to undo that damage.

Hannah - Asperger's. I don't know of any, sorry to say.

Hannah - Look Me in the Eye: My Life with Asperger's is a memoir about Asperger's.

I always hated history in school and forgot everything I learned as soon as the test was over. Especially non-US history. Now I wish I actually knew something about history because it makes me feel dumb. I need to figure out how to find books I can read and get into easily.

You're right where I was before I started this project, Julie. Any particular period you might be interested in? I might be able to recommend something.

I think I need to start easy, which for me means the USA since I know I liked it better in school. I have been searching for historical fiction lately but its hard to find things when you don't know what's out there. Non-fiction would be good too as long as its written in a more interesting way than a text book if that makes sense.

Take a look at Tony Horwitz's A Voyage Long and Strange: Rediscovering the New World. It's nonfiction, but he's a really engaging writer - pop history in the best sense. It covers very early stuff - the period when England and Spain were sortof wandering around trying to figure out what was worth stealing. I guarantee you'll enjoy it.

Horwitz's shtick is that he combines history with travelogue, as he visits the site of whatever he's talking about. Sounds a little cheesy, but he pulls it off.

Alex wrote: "Take a look at Tony Horwitz's A Voyage Long and Strange: Rediscovering the New World. It's nonfiction, but he's a really engaging writer - pop history in the best sense. It covers ..."

Thanks, I'll check it out. I see you have Mayflower: A Story of Courage, Community, and War on your shelves. I borrowed that from my dad and have it sitting on my pile.

Mt next book is going to be The Tenth Circle

Mayflower isn't quite as engrossing as Voyage Long & Strange; I found it a touch dry in places. Certainly worth the read, but if you're nervous about reading textbooky kinds of things, it might not be the best thing for you to start with.

I haven't read Voyage Long & Strange but have read Mayflower by Nathaniel Philbrick, found it a fair presentation of relationships with Indians especially King Philip's War. (I collected colonial era books) That particular war was the worst in America - wiped out many communities.

Alex wrote: "Mayflower isn't quite as engrossing as Voyage Long & Strange; I found it a touch dry in places. Certainly worth the read, but if you're nervous about reading textbooky kinds of things, it might no..."

Yeah I saw your review. I'll check out the other one first once I get to that point. I have too many things to read and not enough time....sigh.

I start reading in the morning by flashlight until my husband turns on the generator, then again after lunch and when I get to bed. I sigh, too, by all of the books I want to read.