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Members' Chat > A self-publishing renaissance? Most writers making less than $1k a year

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message 1: by Penny (new)

Penny (penne) | 748 comments I just came across this article about self publishing and the average earning of writers. It's a topic that comes up fairly often and this is the first time I've seen a study on the topic referenced so I thought I'd share it.


message 2: by Thaddeus (new)

Thaddeus White | 96 comments That's the thing. Self-publishing means you/we don't need an agent/publisher.

Huzzah! The Gatekeeper is dead!

Except that because it's so easy and so many want to be writers the market has been flooded and promoting/marketing yourself and your books isn't something that comes naturally to most people.

The evolution of self-publishing will continue, and I'm hopeful that we'll be able to keep the freedom to release our work without restraint. Blogs and review sites may rise to become Gatekeepers (for example, a seal of approval from Site X could end up being worth a lot to a self-published author).


message 3: by L.G. (new)

L.G. Estrella | 231 comments Thaddeus wrote: "That's the thing. Self-publishing means you/we don't need an agent/publisher.

Huzzah! The Gatekeeper is dead!

Except that because it's so easy and so many want to be writers the market has been ..."


Your point about blogs is excellent. I've noticed something similar with video games (although it's not just blogs, it's also youtube channels etc.).

I've also noticed that a lot of mainstream publishers are putting more onus on writers to do the marketing. That being the case, I'm sure people wonder, why not just publish it themselves?


message 4: by Jessica (new)

Jessica Thomas | 8 comments Thanks for sharing the article. I'd agree that the road is fraught with perils. I created an imprint last year and released my first novel under it a couple weeks ago. The entire process was arduous, not to mention the many years it took me to come to the decision. I think it will eventually pay off, if not monetarily, than at least professionally. I'd add that it's a lonely road, too, but if you have a story or stories that you feel obsessively compelled to get out there, self/independent pubbing has become a viable alternative and a great opportunity.


message 5: by Micah (last edited Jan 30, 2014 06:05AM) (new)

Micah Sisk (micahrsisk) | 1436 comments Thaddeus wrote: "Blogs and review sites may rise to become Gatekeepers (for example, a seal of approval from Site X could end up being worth a lot to a self-published author)."

In looking for places to possibly get reviews, I've found that all attempts to do Gatekeeper blogs and seal of approval web sites end up here:

1) The blog gets overwhelmed by submissions instantly and ends up posting the dreaded "Because of the insane submission volumes we receive, we are no longer accepting submissions from self-published authors..." notice.

2) The sites offering "seal of approval" kinds of things end up charging money for the service, thereby quickly entering vanity/scam terriotry (in appearance if not in actuality).

The added issue with both blogs and seal of approval sites is that they will mostly be found by writers wanting to get noticed, not by readers.

Readers have a very limited attention span and will typically only go looking for books from where they buy them. So unless Amazon and their like start offering reviews and seals of approval, I think it's going to be really difficult for one or more blogs/web sites to rise to notariety enough to really make a difference.

I'm afraid for the foreseeable future, new authors launching self-published books is going to remain being like dropping the tiniest needle in a galaxy-sized haystack.


message 6: by Micah (new)

Micah Sisk (micahrsisk) | 1436 comments Oh, and I make far more than $1k per year...





...only not on book sales ;(


message 7: by C.J. (new)

C.J. Davis | 30 comments Interesting topic. I think quality trumps all. Original ideas don't hurt either. There will always be readers willing to give new authors a chance. I think too many authors put out their books before they're ready. You can always blame marketing, but trust me it's not rocket science. It's what I do for my day job.


message 8: by MK (new)

MK (wisny) | 480 comments Micah wrote: " So unless Amazon and their like start offering reviews and seals of approval, ..."

They already do. Editor's Picks, Kindle First, Countdown Deals, Monthly Deals, and Kindle Daily Deals.

These titles end up populating the bestseller lists, which probably all together account for most free-surfing book titles on Amazon.


message 9: by Kyra (new)

Kyra Halland (kyrahalland) | 137 comments An important thing to remember is that with self-publishing, there isn't a time limit on how long your book has to sell before it gets pulled from the shelf and the publisher's actively supported lineup to make room for new releases. Your book can stay up for sale indefinitely and maybe take off a few years (or longer) after it was released, and in the meantime you put up more books for sale.

As for that particular study, I've seen a lot of blog posts questioning its methodology and objectivity (Digital Book World has a strong pro-trad publishing slant).


message 10: by Jessica (new)

Jessica Thomas | 8 comments Micah wrote: "I'm afraid for the foreseeable future, new authors launching self-published books is going to remain being like dropping the tiniest needle in a galaxy-sized haystack."

Heh heh. This is certainly what it feels like. I think slow word of mouth is probably the only real way to go. And it is painfully s-l-o-w.


message 11: by Micah (new)

Micah Sisk (micahrsisk) | 1436 comments MK wrote: "They already do. Editor's Picks, Kindle First, Countdown Deals, Monthly Deals, and Kindle Daily Deals..."

Yes, but how does an author get included in those? (I can't find any details on that just now.)

Does someone who's had less than 100 book sales ever get included? As far as I'm aware you can't choose to have them read your book to see if it gets their seal of approval. It's most likely based on how many you sell. Sell enough and their editors might take a look at it. If so, and if I'm already selling enough to get their attention, am I really such a struggling writer?

The rest of those as far as I can tell aren't seals of approval but marketing tools. There is no third party validation or gatekeeping involved.


message 12: by Kyra (new)

Kyra Halland (kyrahalland) | 137 comments Micah wrote: "Yes, but how does an author get included in those? (I can't find any details on..."

The Countdown Deal is an option for any book enrolled in KDP Select.


message 13: by DavidO (new)

DavidO (drgnangl) Quality will out.

Just look at the Ryria series. That was self-published and sold so well because it was excellent (and the author is such a nice guy) that it became a pro series.


message 14: by Sabrina (new)

Sabrina Flynn Thanks for sharing that article, Penny. Glad to see them address the traditional side of things too, because any which way you go, both routes share similar issues.


message 15: by Sabrina (new)

Sabrina Flynn Micah wrote: "Thaddeus wrote: "Blogs and review sites may rise to become Gatekeepers (for example, a seal of approval from Site X could end up being worth a lot to a self-published author)."

In looking for plac..."


I think trying different things is important as far as advertising goes. I've had a lot of success with running a Goodreads Giveaway, price-matching for permafree and submitting it to book sites that advertise free books, like Freebooksy, Readcheaply, and a bunch of others. Once you have the reviews, you can aim for Bookbub. Yes, some of these sites have an advertising fee, but I view it as initial costs that come with starting up any new business.

Book bloggers are pretty overloaded, but just keep trying. I submitted my book to around 20-30 bloggers. Out of that, five replied, and two months later, one review was posted, but I lucked out. The review was from an established blogger who doesn't normally accept selfpub. It turned out she accepted my book because there are so few female high fantasy writers out there. I had not even considered this before.

So maybe think about whether or not your book fits any niche and highlight it.


message 16: by [deleted user] (last edited Jan 30, 2014 11:57AM) (new)

It is true that most self-published authors are not exactly swimming in gold, but at least their books are out and available to the public. I tried for over 16 years to have my novels accepted for printing by a publishing house. I was lucky to just get a short letter saying in polite terms that they were not interested, and never got a 'yes'. Many publishers even responded by saying that they didn't even accept books by new authors. Finally, in discouragement, I said to myself 'the hell with it, I want people to be able to read my books, even if I don't make a cent with them', and published online my novels, first on Free-eBooks.net, then on Foboko.com and on Goodreads.com. While I don't earn money from my books, I now have the immense personal satisfaction of seeing them being read by many people around the World, the great majority of which seem to enjoy them a lot, if I can judge from the ratings and readers' comments. I also feel some bitterness towards the traditional publishers who turned down my novels because of overcautious marketing or prejudiced tastes of publishing executives.

Self-publishing may not make you rich, but it is at least one way to break free from the chokehold of the publishing houses in terms of being published at all.


message 17: by Marcy (new)

Marcy (marshein) | 0 comments Michel, my story is similar to yours, except I spent over 30 years trying to publish my novels. I've now only self-published one (out of five), but also short stories, a memoir, and two non-fiction. I feel the same way you do, I'd rather people read them than not.

At the start of the self-pub movement I rejoiced; however, the glut of books on the market sometimes fills me with despair: when there are so many, a hefty portion have to be no good, and books as a whole are cheapened. So I'm ambivalent about self-publishing, tho I guess I'd have to say I'm glad more than not.

Publishing companies stopped marketing their authors years ago--except for their stars, like Stephen King and John Grisham. It's odd how they spend money promoting writers who don't need it...they don't edit much anymore either, so exactly what is their purpose?

Finally, I've been reading results of studies for decades now that say writers make very little money from writing, no matter who with or how they are published. Nothing new. It's a hard knock life, but as I said to someone else already today, it beats working in a coal mine.


message 18: by C.J. (new)

C.J. Davis | 30 comments Well said Mihel


message 19: by Daniel (last edited Jan 30, 2014 02:19PM) (new)

Daniel Benshana | 16 comments Actually the gatekeeping can pretty much be done by all of us who publish. Never publish if you have not been edited and proof read. Get beta readers at Goodreads and other sites to gain feedback. Don't just stop at one book, make it your life work. Have the book typeset and the book cover designed.

I started FootSteps Press to get away from ever having lulu or Createspace on the Amazon description but having a company changed everything. Firstly the power of an ISBN for people to order your books becomes all yours. You are eligible to sign up for a better breed of printer online - in my case Lightning Source supported by Ingrams - so you choose your own discount rate and if you will accept returns or not.

But then an amazing thing happened. I had a vehicle and skills that other writers needed. So we instantly became a publishing house with an eclectic mix of tittles that just continues to grow. And our reviews are from high praise to above average.

We will now be doing titles that will get national press because we have attracted writers with that kind of muscle.

Does that help my own books. Not yet, but it has made the aim to be the best achievable because we only deal with excellent work, we edit and proof read everything, we have artists design the books and we are now learning epub skills.

We are becoming the go-to place for digital publishing in our county in the UK, and that is highly significant.

Few of us is making thousands yet but some of the authors are selling over a thousand books a year and that will increase as our name gets better known.

The cost of all this? Time. Time a good friends who believe in me. Over 3 years I have spent £6,000 or just over. Last year we made before giving it all away on royalties £1,500 and our income this month is already $500, so we continue to increase our sales slowly but surely.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments Daniel wrote: "Actually the gatekeeping can pretty much be done by all of us who publish. Never publish if you have not been edited and proof read. Get beta readers at Goodreads and other sites to gain feedback. ..."

the link to your site doesn't work for me...


message 21: by L.G. (new)

L.G. Estrella | 231 comments A number of people have already touched on a critical point: for many authors, small sales are better than no sales.

For a traditional publisher to make their money back on a book, they need that book to sell thousands of copies (assuming a typical print run). If your book can't move thousands of copies, then it's not going to get picked up. But there are good stories that don't fit this mould. Look at short stories - it's pretty much impossible to sell those outside of an anthology or genre magazine. Yet is very much possible to self-publish short stories (or collections of short stories). More importantly, readers have frequently shown that they DO want to read short stories, they just haven't been able to before.

Likewise, there are stories that will only sell a thousand or so copies. To the author that represents a success - and it can definitely add that little bit extra to someone's normal income. But to a publisher that would be a failure.

What stands out to me is the asymmetry in viewpoints. For most authors, any sales are a success. It could be a hundred, it could a thousand - authors are usually happy if they're being read and paid for it. For publishers, the bar is set much higher (due to overhead etc.). A few hundred sales isn't nearly enough.

The point about goalkeepers is also an important one. I do think that quality is a powerful force - arguably the most powerful. But you still do need people to know about your book. They can't buy it if they don't know it exists. That's why sites like this one and reviews on Amazon and other places are useful - they help us sort through the enormous number of books available.

And every year, I see the traditional publishing houses pushing more and more of the workload onto their authors. Publicity, marketing, editing - increasingly these are pushed onto the authors. If that is the case, what is the publisher doing for you? True, if you're a big name, you get a lot of support. But the big names are the ones who don't need that support anymore! A guy like G. R. R. Martin doesn't need a massive marketing team - people will pick up the next book because it's his.

And I don't feel this way just because I'm a self-published author (it would be dishonest not to acknowledge that here). I also feel this way because I've read some great stories by self-published authors, people whom the traditional publishers never gave a chance.


message 22: by MK (new)

MK (wisny) | 480 comments L.G. wrote: " I also feel this way because I've read some great stories by self-published authors, people whom the traditional publishers never gave a chance. ..."

My two favorite authors, recently, are indie authors - Debora Geary, and Hugh Howey. I have bought everything Geary's put out, and will buy everything Howey's put out.

Actually, another one might turn out to be a member from here - Thomas Norwood. I don't know why I rated his book and short story only 4 stars instead of 5, b/c I find myself thinking about his story again and again :-p. I'll be buying his Perfectible Animals #2 for sure.


message 23: by Iscah (last edited Feb 01, 2014 08:31PM) (new)

Iscah Iscah | 22 comments POD and Vanity Publishing are two completely different things. PoD and ebooks (particularly ebooks) are what's turning self-publishing into a realistic business model. (Yes, quality is still important, but the technology changed the financial viability.)

Vanity publishing is when you pay someone else to publish your book under their name. Usually authors who do this don't really have a business plan, they just want to get that false sense of accomplishment. But there are a rare few who knew how to work this system to make money.

PoD is short for Print on Demand. And even large traditional publishers are using it (usually for their backlist titles).

With a Vanity Press before PoD, authors usually had to buy hundreds or thousands of books printed at a time to get them to a price point low enough to resell them.

With PoD, items are printed after the consumer purchases them. It's not just books though. This is a popular option for everything from T-shirts to shower curtains. As a writer and designer, I currently make more money from Cafepress than Amazon, but my Cafepress shop is older and offers a much larger list of items.

Before PoD and ebook, traditional publishers also were forced to stick to very large print runs of 5,000 to 10,000 copies. The unsold copies were stripped and destroyed, which is rather sad to think about.

That sort of bulk printing is still cheaper per unit, but PoD opens the doors to niche market authors.


Certainly you can combine a Vanity Press with PoD printing, but they were never the same thing. One is a business model and the other is more a matter of printing technology. A change from large metal plates only capable of printing a fixed page to digital printing which can print an unlimited number of variations.


message 24: by A.L. (new)

A.L. Butcher (alb2012) | 76 comments It never ceases to amaze me on the KDP boards the amount of authors who upload a book and then expect to be the next big seller. It doesn't happen, or at least very rarely. Perhaps, given time with a good product and good luck an author might start making a decent income. I actually had someone on FB ask me what he should write to make money...


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments A.L. wrote: "It never ceases to amaze me on the KDP boards the amount of authors who upload a book and then expect to be the next big seller. It doesn't happen, or at least very rarely. Perhaps, given time wit..."

Nothing. He should write nothing.


message 26: by A.L. (last edited Feb 03, 2014 02:11PM) (new)

A.L. Butcher (alb2012) | 76 comments That is pretty much what I said:) Haven't heard from him since so guess he didn't like my advice.


message 27: by Micah (new)

Micah Sisk (micahrsisk) | 1436 comments The answer right now is Erotica. But who wants to write just for money? I mean, spend all your time writing stuff you have no interest in writing and you might as well be writing technical manuals or ad copy or political punditry...or working as a stock broker.


message 28: by [deleted user] (new)

A.L. wrote: "It never ceases to amaze me on the KDP boards the amount of authors who upload a book and then expect to be the next big seller. It doesn't happen, or at least very rarely. Perhaps, given time wit..."

What is wrong about writing simply for the fun of writing? If you can make money with it, fine, but it doesn't have to be the riding goal of every writer.


message 29: by Mary (new)

Mary Catelli | 1009 comments I must observe that under the old system, the writers were frequently also earning very little. Don't like things like J.K. Rowling deceive you. Money is not evenly distributed in the traditionally published world.

Indeed, it's like the Solar System, by mass. If you consider it like that, the Solar System is the Sun. Everything else is rounding error. And if you eliminate the top bestsellers -- the Sun -- you discover that the Solar system is Jupiter, with all the other planets and planetoids and comets being rounding error.


message 30: by Whitney (new)

Whitney (whitneychakara) | 115 comments for self pub a lot fail to realize that less than half is actually about the art. The rest is all about the business. the key word in self-publiser is not self but publisher.

You need to think like both the author and the publisher and I find a lot of self pubs don't so this correctly.

Take a look at self pubs like Amanda Hocking. She wanted to be a author, she wanted to write books an she wanted to be able to live off of her work. So she set up a time limit, she worked on the product perfected it to the best of her ability.
Then the hard work started. she wrote about something with a strong built in fan base in a popular genre. She didn't have to find the readers, they were already there.

Fast forward and do it again QUICKLY.

Then there's what I experienced on here with self pub authors. Some are great, respectful they get to know you the participate your not just a dollar sign or a number to them.
Others are rude stuffing their book down your throat sending you links spamming you. Guess what I will never read a single thing by those authors. Then the false reviews... those authors discredit themselves and give the self pub industry a bad name.


message 31: by L.G.A. (new)

L.G.A. McIntyre | 12 comments Marketing. Marketing. Marketing.There, I said it.
You may write the next great classic, but if no one knows about it...

A mentor told me that the next book is always the best marketing tool. There are no get rich quick schemes. At best, you may have a 10-year marketing plan to moderate success. It has to be treated like a real, full time job. To publish is only step one. You have to make yourself known to your market niche - even though it may feel like windmilling your arms to create a hurricane.

So far, I've been lucky. My first novel, The Exile, which debuted in August 2013, has already well exceeded the $1000/year average. Then again, it found its niche quickly in the Epic Fantasy Adventure Genre.The next book in the series, The Rebel, will drop in August 2014.

I have to make mention, that I've sold more hard copies at book signings, directly to my market, then sold POD online and e-pubs. Soon, I am going to do a book blog tour, which is showing a lot of promise for excellent exposure to my audience. From my initial efforts - Goodreads Giveaway - my book received almost 400 "to be read" links. Joining with several other authors from Goodreads, we began a Rafflecopter Giveaway that currently has 18,000 entries - which are now connected to our tweets, Facebook and blogs.

Marketing is key. Is it self or is it traditionally published is a moot point. We have the ability to reach a world-wide audience for next to no cost to ourselves. That is a game changer. Without it, The Exile would be sitting in the backwater, instead of being read and enjoyed.

By the way, if you want to enter our Rafflecopter Giveaway the link is here: http://www.lgamcintyre.com


message 32: by Toni (new)

Toni Ressaire | 9 comments L.G.A, glad you said it: Marketing, Marketing, Marketing.

I'm an indie publisher, and I can assure you that writing and publishing are only the first steps in a very long and arduous process. Without fail, I published books, let them sit in online retail outlets a few weeks while I get everything in place to start marketing. Without fail, those books don't sell for those first few weeks because they don't get noticed in the mass of books published every month. And then the marketing starts. The sales then attest to the importance of marketing.

Even with marketing, it's tricky for authors--and publishers--to make money. Like other posts have mentioned, the market is flooded with authors self-promoting their books, and these authors fall into the traditional and non-traditional categories.

Your mentor was correct, the next book is a huge marketing tool. And here's where self and indie publishing have a huge advantage, in my opinion, over traditional publishing. We understand it's an uphill road to get an author noticed. We stick with it, and don't dump a book that hasn't sold thousands in the first few months or year of release. The strategy is long-term and not tied directly to sales.

So why do we do it? I'm sure some are hoping to make big bucks self-publishing, and some do. But many of us do it just to give readers the opportunity to read some great writing that would otherwise be manuscripts collecting dust. And yeah, we hope to make some money; but we know it won't happen quickly.

So, want to make more than that 1K a year? Publish, publish, publish; Market; market; market.


message 33: by Whitney (new)

Whitney (whitneychakara) | 115 comments Exactly


message 34: by Whitney (new)

Whitney (whitneychakara) | 115 comments I'd also recommend building a press kit or hiring someone to build you one. PROFESSIONALISM PROFESSIONALISM PROFESSIONALISM!

If you are going do a Amateur job on the cover or editing or website. HIRE A PROFESSIONAL because you want your work to look PROFESSIONAL.


message 35: by Hákon (new)

Hákon Gunnarsson I agree. Professionalism is very important. The cover and the editing has to be good. And then to continue to write and publish, to keep building on the foundation which starts with one book.

It's like you said Toni: Publish, publish, publish; Market; market; market.


message 36: by L.G. (new)

L.G. Estrella | 231 comments One of the keys, I feel, is learning from your mistakes. As several other posters have mentioned, you have to back yourself. Don't be afraid to try new things. If a marketing strategy fails, it's not the end of the world - you now know what not to do.

And like others have said - publish, publish, publish. A series can be a very nice thing to have - the books lead naturally into one another.


message 37: by L.G.A. (new)

L.G.A. McIntyre | 12 comments Confidence in the validity of your work is everything. If you don't believe in how fantastic your story is, you will never convince anyone else. I think that many Indie Authors go into the business with a "cap-in-hand" attitude not felt by traditional published authors who have the "I'm Published" stamp of approval.
This is then reinforced by discrimination from traditional sales outlets, libraries, reviewers etc. BUT the world of publishing is irrevocably changing and eventually, these "Traditional" outlets will catch up and realize how many truly great books are slipping through the cracks. Until then, an Indie Author has to be their own champion, and not be afraid to step up and slay the dragons of discrimination.
Indie Author does not mean Vanity Author, any more than an Indie Movie means a Home Movie.

Professionalism, Marketing, Publishing - I think we should have a flag made. ;-)


message 38: by Mary (new)

Mary Catelli | 1009 comments L.G.A. wrote: "Confidence in the validity of your work is everything. If you don't believe in how fantastic your story is, you will never convince anyone else. I think that many Indie Authors go into the business..."

The problem is that you have to remember that you need it while wearing your Publicist hat -- but NOT while you're wearing your Writer or even your Editor or Copy-Editor hat.


message 39: by Greg (new)

Greg Strandberg (gregstrandberg) | 0 comments I'm feeling pretty good - I beat those odds by about $500.


message 40: by A.L. (last edited Feb 11, 2014 04:47AM) (new)

A.L. Butcher (alb2012) | 76 comments Michel wrote: "A.L. wrote: "It never ceases to amaze me on the KDP boards the amount of authors who upload a book and then expect to be the next big seller. It doesn't happen, or at least very rarely. Perhaps, g..."

Sorry missed the reply until now.
Of course there is nothing wrong in writing for the fun of it, and making some money. That isn't what I meant. There are lot of folks who do expect to make a lot of money immediately and end up disappointed. Write because you want to, there is a story to tell and share:)


message 41: by Byl (last edited Feb 17, 2014 08:42PM) (new)

Byl (byls) | 17 comments Micah wrote: "1) The blog gets overwhelmed by submissions instantly and ends up posting the dreaded 'Because of the insane submission volumes we receive, we are no longer accepting submissions from self-published authors...' notice."

As you mentioned review blogs can easily be overwhelmed and find themselves basically in the same spot as a slush pile reader for a publishing house. I don't know what the mechanism will be for the better self-published books to rise to the top. Over the short run it will be the distributors. Over the longer run sites like this will also play an important role.

I would echo the advice of others: write because you must or write because you enjoy it, not because you think it's an easy stay-at-home part-time occupation that will lead to quick riches.


message 42: by Alan (new)

Alan Denham (alandenham) | 256 comments Byl wrote: "I don't know what the mechanism will be for the better self-published books to rise to the top. Over the short run it will be the distributors. Over the longer run sites like this will also play an important role..."

And I keep asking for advice - this just makes me feel like everyone is in the same boat (and it is sinking!).
I have a website - and a presence as a Goodreads author. I don't have a Facebook or Twitter account - if the website can't attract interest on its own, then I am not sure Facebook or Twitter would be much help, unless I could build up a following first (how?!) and then use that as a foundation for an advertising campaign. I have written to a few established reviewers asking for reviews, offering review copies. Usually I don't get anywhere. Those who have reviewed my work have liked it (reviews on Amazon.co.uk) but I still need to make some impact . . .
I'm getting desperate! Advice anyone?


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments Alan wrote: "Byl wrote: "I don't know what the mechanism will be for the better self-published books to rise to the top. Over the short run it will be the distributors. Over the longer run sites like this will ..."

#1: Cover - I would have it redesigned. And emphasis what the title of the book is. It's confusing right now.

#2: Blurb - write one. The blurb sounds like the notes you wrote to yourself as you were creating the story.

#3 Giveaways - I would pay for a handful (if possible a number of 10 or less) a POD copy and do a giveaway. Make it clear that you are looking for reviews.

#4 Look for reviews - There are a number of bloggers and others who are willing to take a free read in exchange for an honest review.

NOTE - this does NOT mean positive. If you are nervous of negative reviews DO NOT DO A GIVEAWAY. You will get an assortment of reviews and no guarantee the reader will enjoy the book.

#5 Participate - Take part in groups that read what you wrote. Be kind, participate in group reads, talk to others about your favorite books (other than your own). Write well thought out and articulate posts.


Just some suggestions.


message 44: by DavidO (new)

DavidO (drgnangl) Everything Mrs Joseph said I completely agree with. I looked at your book on Amazon and it's not something I'd look at twice. The blurb is a bit vague, that's not helping.

Make sure when you do participate you stay friendly and professional. Snarky authors are a big turn off, especially if they snark in reviews.


message 45: by Byl (last edited Feb 18, 2014 10:21AM) (new)

Byl (byls) | 17 comments Alan wrote: "And I keep asking for advice - this just makes me feel like everyone is in the same boat (and it is sinking!)."
Self-published authors just starting out are more or less in the same boat. You simply have to keep working at it, reading, reviewing, networking and getting people interested in who you are. The rest will come. I think that when just starting out the author is somewhat more important than the book. I've got access to thousands of self-published books I'll never read and all for a pittance or even for free. The one I'll actually buy is the one that I've seen some shorter work in an anthology (see 2014 Campbellian Anthology) or that I've read something--review or otherwise--that got me interested in just who this person is.


message 46: by Micah (last edited Feb 18, 2014 11:46AM) (new)

Micah Sisk (micahrsisk) | 1436 comments Also I've read the same thing from many different successful self-published authors: Having more books in your catalog is your best marketing tool.

Another old adage is "Most overnight successes are 10 years in the making."

Right now that's what I'm focusing on. I've got a novel and a novella published and another novel I've just finished the first rough draft on. Also, I've got a novelette in rough draft and a short story that's just been released to test readers.

The short story I'm going to make available free so people can see what I write (as well as to offer extra insight into one of the universes I'm developing). Probably will do the same with the novelette after it's edited and proofed by my test readers.

The novel will take longer, but after that, I've already got...well...half a dozen or more other stories in the works.

Though I'll try to put more effort into marketing, my real focus is on putting out as much material as I can. Without, of course, doing it so fast that it compromises quality.


message 47: by L.G.A. (new)

L.G.A. McIntyre | 12 comments These are all very interesting comments. Marketing the book vs Marketing the Brand (i.e. Author)

I think it is best to build a campaign around both. Think of two guys on the corner with their hands out.
#1) Holds a sign - "Need money for food for my kids. Lost my Job and My home."
#2) Just stands with his hand out for your spare change.

Who are you more likely to "buy" into? Both are Marketing for the same product (your good charity), only one is selling a Brand.

Not the best analogy…apologies...


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments Micah wrote: "Also I've read the same thing from many different successful self-published authors: Having more books in your catalog is your best marketing tool.

Another old adage is "Most overnight successes a..."




I've read some commentary that extrapolated that - for a SPA - it behooves them to have a backlist of three books at the minimum. They suggest that for people who write slowly (as in a Pat Rothfuss or GRRM) it may not be possible to get the momentum going for a successful SPA career (suggesting looking a tradpub). The reason given was that it would simply take too long for said writer to build up enough of a backlist.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 2207 comments L.G.A. wrote: "These are all very interesting comments. Marketing the book vs Marketing the Brand (i.e. Author)

I think it is best to build a campaign around both. Think of two guys on the corner with their han..."




I would agree with this.

Brand is just as important.


message 50: by V.W. (new)

V.W. Singer | 371 comments Byl wrote: "Micah wrote: "1) The blog gets overwhelmed by submissions instantly and ends up posting the dreaded 'Because of the insane submission volumes we receive, we are no longer accepting submissions from..."

First of all, volunteer review groups in places like this should be more focused and pro-active. Using SF as an example, one review cluster would actively search out new self pubbed (say) Military SF, while another would search out Space Opera, and so forth.

This triage method would reduce the amount of actual books that any one group of reviewers would have to look at. It would also perform the review with the base assumption that (say) Military SF is a *good thing* and only comment on how well it is written, plotted, etc.

This way, readers looking for books can more surely and easily identify what they are looking for instead of digging through a mass of well received SF themed books to locate the sub-genre(s) they enjoy.

How often have we read a review that says something to the effect that "Elves are not really my thing but ...."

This way a potential reader and find a review by someone who likes and knows that particular sub-genre and can comment in the appropriate language. e.g. "The author's spaceships reminded me more of EE Doc Smith's inertialess globes than Battlestars".

Efficiency and specialisation in review will allow more good new books come to the attention of *the right* readers. The present general genre "Romance", "SF", "Horror" and so on forces readers to wade through too many books. Simply reading the repeated requests in forums and discussions for recommendations for books with **** characteristics shows that existing reviewers are not meeting the need.


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