Flights of Fantasy discussion

Complete ditto. And if I didn't mark it as "read" on Goodreads, I might as well have not read it.

Nienna wrote: "As for the bridge gap thing… I guess I picture the chasms thin but deep more than wide gaping holes. But… if that were the case why can't the army just go around them…? r..."

Thin long running chasms... the shattered plains. I always pictured it like a larger stone version of an ice field with crevasses. The front cover sort of gives an idea...

Chapter 55- regarding the bridges-

Its mentioned briefly that the bridges can be lowered and extended.

Nienna wrote: "Chapter 55- regarding the bridges-

Its mentioned briefly that the bridges can be lowered and extended."

Was that in regards to Dalinar's bridges or Sadeas's bridges? There's a great deal of difference between the two.

chapter 24 - (view spoiler)[This chapter ends with Adolin telling Dalinar basically to get a fucking grip, and that his visions aren't real. Normally I would be totally with Adolin on this one, being rather rational and skeptical myself, however one of the things I like about reading fantasy is that I can go with a character like Dalinar and cheer for him (because I bet these visions do have something to them) instead of just feeling bad for his poor deluded mind. (hide spoiler)]

Luke wrote: "Nienna wrote: "Chapter 55- regarding the bridges-

Its mentioned briefly that the bridges can be lowered and extended."

Was that in regards to Dalinar's bridges or Sadeas's bridges? There's a grea..."

I suspect you're right… (view spoiler)[ it was mentioned in regards to Dalinar and Sadeas joining forces. (hide spoiler)]

Still confused…

TWoK spoilerish bridge stuffs (view spoiler)[Dalinar uses large siege bridges which are incredibly slow, but don't put people in the line of fire. Those can be raised and lowered and are transported by Chull. Sadeas uses small, lighter bridges carried by bridge crews that are basically a diversion for the Parshendi.

During the time when they worked together, Dalinar typically used his own bridges since the ones Sadeas used went against the codes. However, later on Dalinar uses some of Sadeas's bridges as long as there was no risk to the bridgemen that carried them. (hide spoiler)]

I think the bridgemen slide the bridge across the chasms.

Jackie wrote: "What does everyone make of the beginning passages? In the first part we have what I originally thought were experiments done on the dying and then the second part seems to be an ongoing conversation."

The first time I saw the dying quotes I thought there was some sort of death cult that somehow collected these, but now I just have no idea what they're about. The second part seems to me to be a letter.

I finished part 2 tonight, let's see if I can keep a good pace during the week.

Confused me as well...All is revealed later in the book ;)

The Letter is about the Cosmere and you won't understand it unless you have read a bunch of other books by him as well. You're not missing out on a whole lot if you don't understand it.

Oh yes of course. You can read the complete letter (all the parts just added together) on the 17th shard site.

Eon wrote: "Oh yes of course. You can read the complete letter (all the parts just added together) on the 17th shard site."

You can also fangirl, theorize, and annoy Peter. There's something for everyone, lol!

Letter

Is it bad that I find commenting on anything stormlight related WAY more interesting than anything else I am currently doing?

Finished. Finally. Happy Dance!!

I struggled. Again. It starts strong. And end strong. Very strong. But the whole middle sections are soooo slow for me. The bridgeruns kill it for me. They really do. And it seems as though chapter after chapter of nothing happening. I know it works for some readers but I get bored with its slow pace.

The last part *does* pick it up a lot though and was enjoyable. I'm ready for book 2 now. I just hope the pacing isn't as slow as this first one was.

Ive heard from the reviews that the pacing is much faster.

Eon wrote: "Is it bad that I find commenting on anything stormlight related WAY more interesting than anything else I am currently doing?"

Yep. I sit on reddit and 17S all day talking about it lol.

Nienna wrote: "Finished. Finally. Happy Dance!!

I struggled. Again. It starts strong. And end strong. Very strong. But the whole middle sections are soooo slow for me. The bridgeruns kill it for me. They really ..."

Read this spoiler free review of WOR and set your mind at ease Nienna

Review

Nienna wrote: "I struggled. Again. It starts strong. And end strong. Very strong. But the whole middle sections are soooo slow for me. The bridgeruns kill it for me. They really do. And it seems as though chapter after chapter of nothing happening. I know it works for some readers but I get bored with its slow pace.

The last part *does* pick it up a lot though and was enjoyable. I'm ready for book 2 now. I just hope the pacing isn't as slow as this first one was. "

I completely agree with you. Many of Sanderson's books, IMHO, have middles that sag compared to the excellent beginnings and endings. This one in particular you could remove about 500 pages without losing much. I would have been fine with a line that said "6 months later" or something like that, and see how much progress has been made.

A lot of that "sagginess" is the flashbacks, imo. I have never ever really cared for flashbacks, even when they're well done. They slow down the entire story for me, save for the moment they finally reveal that critical piece of the puzzle from the character's past.

Ditto on the flashbacks for me.

Nienna wrote: "I think the bridgemen slide the bridge across the chasms."

Sliding them onto the chasm seems to work though I think that it would require more effort to slide them back! :/

Paolo wrote: "chapter 24 - [spoilers removed]"

Sometimes I don't know who to trust! What if it was all a reflection from his subconscious? Freud would have probably given this explanation eheh :)

Looking forward to read more, 35% done :)

I was feeling bad about my slow progress on this book but then realized I have basically read a full book and am still only a third of the way through!! ;)

This book equals like 3 "normal" books. You really have to take that into account.

Yes, so that means that the SA series is going to be 30 "books" long, condensed into 10 separate "trilogies".

Today is the day! So excited!

I'm 97% done with WoK, so right on schedule to start WoR tonight!

Like everyone else who is re-reading this, I'm really surprised and how much I had forgotten since the first time I read it. It's totally blowing my mind. Love this book! I know it's technically "slow", but it doesn't feel slow to me. It's always hard for me to put it down and stop reading.. I finish a chapter and can't help but start the next.

Definitely a 5 star read and re-read. So glad I have a series like this to look forward to over the years :)

I´m on chapter 35 I think.

I was looking forward to Part 3 and getting back to Shallan´s chapters, having heard it deals with her research and scholarship. However her first two chapters in this part were a pain to get through. I really don´t see the need for having religion in epic fantasy. All this theological discussion is not especially well done and doesn´t even directly relate to human affairs and conflicts. It just comes across as Sanderson being preachy.

Having said that, Jasnah is a well-rounded non-believer character. Like Nienna said earlier in the thread, I´m going to be extremely pissed off if she "finds the Almighty" further down the road in the series.

I don't necessarily think it's unrealistic to have religious characters in epic fantasy. I mean, there are religious people in real life. I think it would be weirder not to have people who are believers, in some ways, especially in a novel this sweeping that addresses so many different classes and types of people.

Religion is actually pretty common in fantasy. Especially those with all the world building.

I completely agree with what you said Emily. Religious characters are fine. Pages of theological discussion however just bore me. Especially when it´s between two people who basically agree (Shallan and the ardent). I fell asleep twice reading these chapters. Though like I implied before, Jasnah coming in at the end of the conversation saved the entire thing for me.

If I may go on a tanget here for a bit, aSoIaF, for example, does a great job of including religion and religious characters and at least to me, what´s really cool and interesting about that is the way it affects human affairs (eg the sparrows, Stannis embracing R´hllor, etc).

You know what else is a huge part of real life? Sex. And I don´t see any sex at all in TWOK so far.

Brandon Sanderson characters don't have sex.

Paolo wrote: "You know what else is a huge part of real life? Sex. And I don´t see any sex at all in TWOK so far. "

I don't know his motivation, but as far as I know Sanderson doesn't write about sex. On the plus side, if you like that kind of thing there's tons of books with sex in them.

I don't know that he needs a specific motivation.. It's just not something he writes about. It's not that it doesn't happen, his style is just to let it happen behind the scenes. I don't really even notice that it's missing until it's pointed out. Lots of things aren't written about.. He doesn't tell us when they pee or pick their nose either, and for that I am glad. There are enough pages in the book already without having to add penis's and moaning and grunting and unzipping to wizz and digging for gold :P

Sanderson does write PG13 or T rated books. But is that necessarily a bad thing? I don't believe it is. I read (and enjoy) dark fantasy but one thing I love about Sanderson is his books make me feel good when I'm done.

LOL. Good point, Dawn.

I´m not enjoying the book any more or less because of the lack of sex. I actually don´t really care either way. The reason I brought it up was to make a point that just because something exists and is important in real life, that doesn´t necessarily mean it should be included in a fantasy novel.

Dawn wrote: "Lots of things aren't written about.. He doesn't tell us when they pee or pick their nose either, and for that I am glad."

This is more the kind of feeling I was going for re: religion and theological discussion.

In the end, to each his own I guess. There are far more things I´m enjoying about this book than things I´m disliking, and I can´t wait to get back home to keep reading. However, there are a number of things I find annoying (other things include the safehand thing, and the entire concept of spren), and I think bringing them up makes for interesting discussion. Since, you know, that´s the whole point of reading with other people.

Why do you find safehand and spren annoying?

DavidO wrote: "Why do you find safehand and spren annoying?"

To me it's the constant mentioning of it that gets annoying. I'm about 400 pages in, maybe more, and while I know what side the safehand is on and the protocol the purpose of it all is still not revealed. I'm not sure if that is what Paolo is getting at.

See, I find the little details like the safe hand to be interesting.. For me, it adds culture to the world and makes me wonder about the origins.

Dawn wrote: "See, I find the little details like the safe hand to be interesting.. For me, it adds culture to the world and makes me wonder about the origins."

I do agree with this. However, it seems like every time there is a woman about we are reminded about the safehand. After awhile it gets a little redundant, especially when the purpose hasn't been revealed yet and I've read the equivalent of two books. I almost feel like the reveals in this book are like pulling teeth.

Safehand - Why does this cultural thing even exist? What is it about female left hands that could possibly lead to everyone covering them up? Lust? Unlikely as they only cover one hand. It seems to only be there to imply that society (in this part of the world at least) is very much concerned with issues of decency and propriety... and that´s just not something that´s very appealing to me in a society, fictional or not.

Maybe it also reminds me of the real world analogy of Islamic cultures where both men and women consider it virtuous to have women covered up. This is just an issue which makes me uncomfortable and maybe the safehand thing rubs me the wrong way because I subconsciously associate the two? Just a thought.

I do however appreciate how it contributes to the worldbuilding, humans coming up with weird cultural practices, it´s just not something I like. I did like how one of the characters (Szeth) takes note of this and finds it strange as well, thinking to himself something along the lines of "wtf? it´s just a hand".

Spren - there seems to be a kind of spren for pretty much anything you can think of. I think if this was a lot more reined in, I would like spren more. One of the first kinds of spren you find in the book are rotspren and I was intrigued, but then we started getting spren for everything - anticipationspren, creationspren - and I kinda started rolling my eyes.

I did however enjoy the interlude with Axies and his spren-collecting project. Very cool.

I don´t mean for all this to sound like I´m not liking the book - I´m loving it! The story is the main draw for me and it´s great so far.

Jackie - glad someone else feels the same way. Are we still reading at the same pace? I´m on Ch 35.

Paolo- no you blew passed me! lol. I was celebrating my birthday this weekend and didn't get much reading done. I'm going to try to catch up tonight though. I'm currently on the Axies the Collector interlude.

I have annoyances, but despite that I'm enjoying it too. I find the world intriguing. The cultural stuff is really interesting.

Oh, regarding spren- (view spoiler)[ Are we under the assumption that the spren are happening because of the highstorms since they don't exist in other lands? (hide spoiler)]

ETA: I don't want major spoilers, please. If it's revealed then just say 'keep reading'. :)

Jackie wrote: I do agree with this. However, it se..."

Regarding the safehand thing I totally agree with you. I like the idea(probably a reference to Islamic culture as Paolo pointed out) of inserting little details in the story to make the world where it is set more real and alive. Anyway there is a certain redundancy in telling 'Hey people, remember they keep a hand covered!'.
I would like to know the purpose of it but I think all will be explained sooner or later.
For some reason I think the safehand thing will have some importance in the story somehow. If not, why tell us every time?

I am confused with what to think about spren. Sometimes I like them (e.g. rotspren), sometimes I don't! But, even here, there's still more to discover about them!

Paolo wrote:Are we still reading at the same pace? I´m on Ch 35.

Passed me too, I'm on chapter 28 but I'll start reading in a few minutes :)

Loving the book so far ;)

The safehand thing doesn't bother me in theory but it does get mentioned a lot. A lot. Sanderson never forgets it - for example he never has Shallan use both hands - but the reader can be trusted to remember it even when it isn't mentioned. I agree that it seems to reflect Islamic cultures. But - I felt it was silly because only one hand is covered. The other isn't. So - it's sexual to see one hand - or both - but not the other. But we all do strange things culturally that other cultures and groups don't understand. So - I'm okay with it.

The safehand reminds me of a Wheel of Time homage or something. Like braid tugging or pulling on skirts.

Now that you mention it... Shallan does remind me of the WoT girls... Maybe that's why I don't like her.

Jackie wrote: "Paolo- no you blew passed me! lol. I was celebrating my birthday this weekend and didn't get much reading done. I'm going to try to catch up tonight though. I'm currently on the Axies the Collector..."

Happy birthday Jackie :) Regarding your spren theory - I like it. I'm intrigued by Shinovar.

Davide - seems we can all agree that rotspren are the cool kind of spren. :)

I guess the hand stuff didn't really bother me because I read it like "right hand / left hand", only in this world it's "safe hand / free hand". Because of that it didn't feel like he was bringing it up over and over, that's just how the hands are thought of.

Wait.

right hand = safe hand?

Am I backwards in my brain?