Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction discussion

This is the discussion thread for the March group read of The eagle and the raven by Pauline Gedge.

I've read it several times and love it, so I'll just be poking my head in here to see folks' opinions and comments.

I have my used copy ordered. Supposed to have been posted last week. Hoping it will get here from the UK in time for a March 1 kick off.

Laurentiu wrote: "I'll be joining this for sure. I have just ordered a copy on abebooks."

This one's certainly Quality! I hope you enjoy it. I may not be reading it along with you, but since I've already read it several times I'll be stopping in.

Yeah, I hope I'll enjoy it too. I've been wanting to read a Boudicca novel for a while now and this one's timing seems to fit like a glove.

Roman fiction at its best, that is what I'm after and so far your you haven't mislead me Jane. Loved The Three Legions by the way, currently skimming through it again.

Oh, I'm so glad!! I wish more people would read The Three Legions!!

I will be reading this one. Have it ready to go on my Kindle.

I am going to give this one a go. Had it for about 2 years now and have not picked it up.

Darn it. I bought this book used off ebay. It was shipped etc etc.. now I hear from the used book broker here in Australia that it has arrived with them and it is not in the condition that it was supposed to be. They are giving me a full refund.

They also say that they can not get me another copy in the condition that I wanted.

Looks like I won't be reading this one after all.

Judging from the well-loved condition my copy from the library is in, I have high hopes for this book. I have already started it and I can't lie, I'm making up some of the pronunciations of the names and places. I don't speak ancient tribal British very well. Any one who can offer hints or phonetics would be appreciated.

Hi Gretchen,
Since I got thwarted in my attempts to buy the book, I can't check..is there any info in the back of the book, or the front, on the names and places?

Terri wrote: "Hi Gretchen,
Since I got thwarted in my attempts to buy the book, I can't check..is there any info in the back of the book, or the front, on the names and places?"
There's a nice map in the front of the book and that's it. I haven't had a chance to spend time looking yet but I was going to see if I could find any online book notes to help out. My librarian gave me a few good sites to try. If any of them pan out I will pass on the links.

If I had my copy I'd try to explain them. We did have some discussion about pronunciations on another group read but I can't recall which one it was.

A quick overview:

single f: 'v' sound

double f: 'f' sound

w: 'ou' or 'oo' sounds

y: 'ee' or 'u' sounds

double d: 'th' sound

sí : 'sh' sound

double l: blown out 'l' (try saying love but as you say the 'l' kind of blow lightly through it)

ch: same as in the Gaelic of the same, like a soft k sound with the wind passing through - if you've ever heard a Scot say 'loch' you'll know what I mean

au='ai'
@Darcy, this is something you posted on Welsh
pronunciation.

I added: accent on penultimate syllable
dd= soft th [as in 'this']
ei='ay' as in May

Jane wrote: "A quick overview:

single f: 'v' sound

double f: 'f' sound

w: 'ou' or 'oo' sounds

y: 'ee' or 'u' sounds

double d: 'th' sound

sí : 'sh' sound

double l: blown out 'l' (try saying love but as y..."

Very helpful, thank you Jane.

I hope it helps. You originally compiled it, Darcy.
The only map in my copy is a map of the tribes, but I've read enough Roman-British fiction, I think I know what and where they're talking about.

trying to get caught up on some other reads so I can start this one on Saturday. I can only read so many books at once

Oh crap, I've got so many books to catch up on that I've forgotten about the group reads!
Though I won't be reading this one, I look forward to everyone's opinions.

I have rarely read a book as immersive as this one - Gedge really brings you into the culture of Celtic Britain so completely that things which would ordinarily make you recoil (a religion which requires human sacrifice, for example) don't even make you blink.

I also have to commend her for giving the Celtic culture a touch of mysticism and magic without making it New Age-y. I pitched "Mists of Avalon" against a wall when I tried to read it, because the religion seemed to come across SO post-feminist and New Age. "Eagle and the Raven" is done much better!

I think I might join this group read. I have this book for some time now in my Kobo and I think I should give it a go :)

The more the merrier!!

I started this one a couple of days ago, I'm on page 150 and I can't put it into words how much I am enjoying this read right now. This, so far, is the best novel I have read in a long time. I have found that I am feeling a connection with the characters in the book, and the author has done a great job giving a visual of what it would have been like to live during that time.

Mine arrived in the post the other day. It looks a little like it might fall apart but I'm going to gently persist with it. :) I'll be starting it on Saturday, looking forwards to it.

Boooo! It is not on the Kindle store, nor in Google Play so I will not be reading this one too Terri. So sad. I just wait and next month maybe I will be lucky with the books You choose.

My copy has yet to arrive, so I'm going to begin with the other group read this month first.

Less than 200 pages in and I have already cried. If this is a sign of things to come, I am going to require more wine.

all right, looks like I am starting this next week, (if my schedule holds....:P)

Placed on hold in my library, still waiting to get it.

I'm in the same boat Alicja. Waiting for that email from my local library saying it's available.

My copy just arrived (can't believe the postman is still working at 19:15), so I'll start it once I'm done the other group read.

A thought: for those who haven't read Imperial Governor: The Great Novel of Boudicca's Revolt / George Shipway I suggest this as a follow-up since this novel concerns the Roman brutal retaliation against Boudicca under Suetonius Paulus.

I'm 150 odd pages into this book and enjoying it thoroughly. It's like a rich stew, filling and satisfying with every bite. I'm glad I came into it with a passing knowledge of Celtic culture. I'll certainly be passing my copy on to a friend of mine if it continues to be this good. :)

Alison wrote: "I'm 150 odd pages into this book and enjoying it thoroughly. It's like a rich stew, filling and satisfying with every bite. I'm glad I came into it with a passing knowledge of Celtic culture. I'll ..."

I bought a copy for a friend; she loved it and passed it on to someone else who loved it.

The Year of the Horsetails by R. F. Tapsell. Just finished."

A little bit more than a hundred pages into this book and I'm loving it. Celtic history and culture fascinates me. The steady rhythm of the book allows us to learn more about their daily lives, their rituals and beliefs and to keep us involved in that specific time and place.

I have cried twice now and I'm about 300 pages into this book. The way the characters are written is so engrossing. The anguish some of the characters are going through is pouring out of the pages. It's been a long time since I found myself this invested in a book's characters.

I found the agonizing internal process by which Caradoc transforms from a light-hearted young man into a steely leader just fascinating - it humanizes a guy who could otherwise just be a clench-jawed hero on a podium. And the cost to his family isn't overlooked either. There's an issue of infidelity down the line which is handled with such sensitivity and sadness that you just want to hug all the people involved who have found their lives so screwed up.

Starting this right now! I'm excited to see so many positive comments about it.

alas, this book has been packed away for renos at my house. I shall have to read it in the future. Wont be able to get to either of the monthly reads in March. I shall just have to add them to my to be read list and wait for a time.

I'm finally going to be able to start this tonight.

Gretchen wrote: "I have cried twice now and I'm about 300 pages into this book. The way the characters are written is so engrossing. The anguish some of the characters are going through is pouring out of the pages...."

Agreed. Pauline Gedge has it all in this book. She's created a fully believable world and characters in gorgeous prose. I know nothing about early Britain except from the Roman point of view, so it's a very informative as well as very moving.

One thing I really like is the way the women are portrayed. Two things strike me: the way Gedge draws Eurgain, Gladys, and Boudicca as strong, even fierce women but also formidable warriors in their own right. I don't know how historically accurate this is, but it's thoroughly convincing and inspiring in the novel.

As far as I know, jury seems to be out on whether or not there were women warriors in Celtic tribes - there is at least some evidence for it. I think Gedge did a nice balance by showing a culture where the women *can* fight, but the men do most of the raids and war parties. The women are more likely to save their fighting either for desperate times (like the Roman invasion) or for home defense. Although some unmarried women like Caradoc's sister Gladys take a more active role, and later on you meet the tribes of the west where the women are definitely more active (and one decides to challenge Eurgain on the premise that Catuvellaun women are soft. Yeah, that goes well).

Kate wrote: "As far as I know, jury seems to be out on whether or not there were women warriors in Celtic tribes - there is at least some evidence for it. I think Gedge did a nice balance by showing a culture w..."

I loved Eurgrain's challenge. Eurgrain is rapidly becoming one of my favorite fictional females.

She's kick-ass. A great example of a woman who was fierce without earning the dreadful label of "spunky." (Shudders.)

Kate wrote: "the tribes of the west where the women are definitely more active (and one decides to challenge Eurgain on the premise that Catuvellaun women are soft. Yeah, that goes well). ..."

What I loved about that scene is how they became friends through it...

Like usual I am behind. I had to finish up The Ten Thousand before I could start this one but I have just began reading it. So far I am rather enjoying, and though I enjoyed are last couple of books, after the I am happy to return to the Celts once more which are a personal favorite of mine and of which I do have a personal connection to.

I really liked the fact that this book started out with Boudicca as a child. I am looking forward to seeing how she develops throughout the story.

Glady's I think is quite interesting thus far.

Acaia I find myself being of two minds about. There are times when I find her interesting and admire her in a way, but there are other moments in which I do tend to find her a bit annoying.

Caradoc is another one that at times he can grate on my nerves, but I for the most part I like him.

I finished the book today and I am giving it 5 stars. One of the best novels I have read in a long time. The characters are great, the description of the time period/Celtic culture is amazing, and the author really draws you in and makes you sympathize with the natives. Anyone know of any good historical fiction involving the sack of Rome? I feel like I need some revenge!

Daniel wrote: "alas, this book has been packed away for renos at my house. I shall have to read it in the future. Wont be able to get to either of the monthly reads in March. I shall just have to add them to m..."

I have suffered a similar fate. I can't get to either book in March. With the purchase of this book falling through at the last minute, and my time limitations meaning I can't get to the library to get Heresy. This will be the first group read month ever that I have not read one of the books (I think).

I am so disappointed that I didn't get this book to read with you all. It sounds fascinating.

Matthew wrote: "I finished the book today and I am giving it 5 stars. One of the best novels I have read in a long time. The characters are great, the description of the time period/Celtic culture is amazing, an..."

Not the sack of Rome, but Celts in Rome. :)
(and this series follows on from Manda Scott's Boudica series...which you don't have to read to be able to read the Rome books.