Victorians! discussion

Sorry to post late again, everyone.

Section 7 takes us through chapters: Book the Last and Epilogue (At the Terminus, In the House, The Purple Flask, News from Norfolk , Midwinter) .

Well, we made it to the end! It's been a long journey, but not, I hope, an unenjoyable one.

What are your impressions of the novel as a whole? How did it compare with other works by Collins which you've read?

It was a very enjoyable journey. Today's page turners have nothing on Armadale. Trollope can make a book exciting and with something new on just about every page and yet there are no car chases, no gunfights, no dangling from roofs, just a plain good story.

Armadale has been great to read. The Victorian sensation novel is a welcome relief and change of pace. As we read about the confrontation of Lydia and Midwinter/Armadale in the sanatorium we see an ultimate confrontation of good versus evil. When Midwinter laments "oh, for the old life ... I never knew till now how happy the old life was" we realize how much pain he is in now.

Lydia orders the doctor at the sanatorium to give her "the strongest sleeping-draught you ever made in your life." I feel in this section we have a bit of Shakespeare's Macbeth occurring. The darkened structure, (the sanatorium), the wealthy, innocent unaware man, (Allan), the evil woman intent on drugging and killing him in order to gain power, her mind a restless cauldron of hate and confusion. Midwinter, for his part, is unable to sleep. Like Macbeth, Midwinter says "I can't sleep tonight" to which Armadale observes "don't I know how easily trifles upset those excitable nerves such as yours?" Midwinter is, of course, the "good guy" but I felt a bit of intertextuality going on with the setting and the language.

As we saw earlier, time is an important motif in this section. Lydia portions out the poison in precise time intervals, and with each pouring the suspense builds. Every action is recorded by the clock, each second a necessary movement towards the end of the novel. As Collins writes at the end of the chapter The Purple Flask "The hands of the clock, following their steady course, recorded the minutes of the morning as one by one they lapsed away." Powerful writing.

Somehow, after all the grand characters and settings I hoped for a different ending, at least for Midwinter. Oh well, perhaps Miss Milroy and Allan deserve each and Midwinter will find someone else.

I agree with you Peter, that the night scene at the sanatorium definitely had a MacBethian feel about it, and Lydia fits as a Lady MB.

I found her hard to dislike throughout the novel, and I think was even hoping for a positive turnaround for her. The character was slated by many contemporary reviewers - something Collins presumably predicted in his dedication when he refers to "clap-trap morality". But he does women so very well especially in comparison to Dickens and other male (and some female) authors.

I though you might be interested to read this article which deals with how, in Armadale, Collins explores the changing face of what it meant to be a Victorian gentleman:

http://www.academia.edu/3575156/_Not_...

Midwinter is the centre of the debate and the author of the article argues that he is a new departure in gentlemanliness; a gentleman in spite of his poor upbringing and being of mixed race. For example, he is the only character who doesn't spy or use spies- something Collins evidently found repugnant.

Pip wrote: "I agree with you Peter, that the night scene at the sanatorium definitely had a MacBethian feel about it, and Lydia fits as a Lady MB.

I found her hard to dislike throughout the novel, and I think..."

I felt sorry for her. Both she and Midwinter were products their respectively horrid childhoods and probably would never have been happy together. I don't think that after a lifetime of scrabbling and scheming, Lydia could have ever allowed herself to trust anyone and simply enjoy herself. But she did show her true love for him at the end.

I knew that Lydia was doomed to die once she had denied being married to Midwinter. Up to that point, I could see them overcoming their differences and her abandoning her plans out of love for him, but not after that. Once she denied him, Midwinter would never have forgiven her for her scheme to kill Allan. There was no turning back for her at that point.

I felt her to be a sympathetic character, despite her machinations. True, she did some pretty disturbing things, but thanks to her diary, you knew why she did them and that usually her back was against the wall. I couldn't even completely condemn her for her final, terrible plan after what she had to endure from Allan in the days preceding it--his endless yammering about Miss Milroy and his yacht, and his colossal insensitivity! I mean, could you really blame her?

This was my first Collins, and definitely won't be my last!

Cindy wrote: "I knew that Lydia was doomed to die once she had denied being married to Midwinter. Up to that point, I could see them overcoming their differences and her abandoning her plans out of love for him..."

Cindy: I agree with you. Even though, in total, Lydia is not a very good person, I had a great deal of sympathy for her. Allan Armadale, on the other hand, who was so immature, was my least favourite character. Collins is very underrated. It was good to read Armadale.

Pip wrote: "I though you might be interested to read this article which deals with how, in Armadale, Collins explores the changing face of what it meant to be a Victorian gentleman:

http://www.academia.edu/3..."

Pip: I have just finished reading the article on the nature of the gentleman and gentlemanliness you provided. Thank you. It offers must to consider, does a fine assessment of both Allan and Midwinter, and puts them both into the larger context and the broader complexity of change that was occurring in the 1860's.

It was also a delight to discover that the link opens up to an entire book of critical articles on Armadale, several of which I intend to read. I am sure that after reading some of them I will want to go back and re-read and re-assess Armadale. If only time was more like Milroy's clock and less like Lydia's countdown.

Peter wrote: "If only time was more like Milroy's clock and less like Lydia's countdown."

So true!!!

I hope you have better luck opening the other articles than I did; the only other one I managed to read all of was the one I quoted in Section 6 about the narrative style. I'm not sure if you can get full access by signing up to the website - I'll have to give it a go. As you say, the contents page is tantalising!

Pip wrote: "Peter wrote: "If only time was more like Milroy's clock and less like Lydia's countdown."

So true!!!

I hope you have better luck opening the other articles than I did; the only other one I manage..."

Yes. Going further into the text and articles does seem out of my expertise, but really anything computer related is beyond me. It is always a debate with myself whether I should read a couple of good articles/criticisms before I read a new book, or wait until after the book is finished. I always choose to read the book first, but then often think "if only I could have been looking for ... then how much more the book would have unfolded for me as I did read it." Oh well.

I struggled with the ending initially. It seemed like so much melodrama after all the twisting psychology. But it has grown on me. Certainly I can imagine what it must have been to read with suspense each step in the application of the poison. Still I'm left feeling so sad for the brave and loyal Midwinter. Collins needed to give him a sequel.

Pip wrote: "
Midwinter is the centre of the debate and the author of the article argues that he is a new departure in gentlemanliness; a gentleman in spite of his poor upbringing and being of mixed race. "

I get the feeling that Midwinter is portrayed as a gentleman because he's half white and so that white blood has at least partly dulled the savage nature of his black blood... I can't locate the passage now, but there's a part where Midwinter gets angry and the narrator says it's his "savage blood" or mother's blood coming through... Not to mention that his superstition or fatalism is referred to as "hereditary."

So, gentleman, yes. If he can keep his black blood under control. I thought his race is part of his struggle in general: he's fighting to overcome his father's criminal legacy, and his mother's racial legacy.

Perhaps we should give Collins credit for being a bit ahead of his time, in how he portrays Midwinter as sympathetic, but I wouldn't go so far as to call him a gentleman despite his race. He's portrayed as a gentleman because the bit of white blood has raised him up to that rank...

As far as the ending goes, while reading I said to myself a few times, "you've got to be kidding me," because the melodrama was just so over the top and the macabre plot twists just kept descending and descending like a stair case to a very dark basement :D I mean that in a good way... The conclusion felt a bit like a guilty pleasure: completely overblown but still a highly enjoyable ending to a great sensational novel.

Not as strong as Women in White, (I got the feeling a few of the plot deviced had already been done - the mistaken identity, the few characters with the same name, disguises, etc) but still a very good read.

I suspect I would place it higher on my list of Collins favorites if the ending had been more in keeping with the way of the book. Don't get me wrong, the ending was fun, but a twistier more psychological ending would have put his up with Moonstone or Woman In White.

I agree with you, Dee, but I also wonder how much color his audience could tolerate. It would be interesting to note whether Collins addressed race in any other stories.

Summer vacations are great but I had trouble finding time to catch up with this reading, that’s why I almost had to read the last two sections in a gulp…But it does not matter, for it was really interesting. However, something is curious happened…As I went on reading, I started to be more worried about Lydia getting caught than Allan getting killed. I mean, in the previous section of the book, to know that she would be the means of hurting Allan made me keep reading and my main concern was Allan’s and Midwinter’s safety….So weird!
I liked Lydia in the end. And I enjoyed all the chapters about her diary…
Armadale, my first Collins novel, quite a journey!