Reading with Style discussion

20.5 - Othello: In honor of Othello, read a book where the narrator or protagonist is a member of a minority ethnic/racial group of the country in which the book is set. If a work has multiple protagonists all must qualify.

If anyone is looking for something offbeat (and non-fiction!) for this task there's Tokyo Vice: An American Reporter on the Police Beat in Japan.

so, gender minority doesn't count? just making sure.

Heather wrote: "so, gender minority doesn't count? just making sure."

For this task, we'll keep to ethnic/racial minority.

In order to be a member of an ethnic/racial minority of a country, the protagonist must be a citizen or long-term resident of the country. So, foreigners, visitors and other newly arrived or temporary residents of a country do not qualify for this task.

These books DO NOT work:
A Bell for Adano
The Book Thief
The Dew Breaker
Empire of the Sun
How the Light Gets In
How the García Girls Lost Their Accents
The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks
In the Heat of the Night
The Merchant of Venice
Othello
Shogun
The Things They Carried
The Thousand Aumunts of Jacob de Zoet
A Thread of Grace
Tokyo Vice: An American Reporter on the Police Beat in Japan
Uncle Tom's Cabin
White Teeth
Woman Hollering Creek and Other Stories

These books work:
The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian
The Autobiography of Malcolm X
Benang: From the Heart
The Bluest Eye
Brick Lane
The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao
The Buddha of Suburbia
Blackening Song
Blanche on the Lam
Bloody Waters
Ceremony
A Cold Day For Murder
The Color Purple
Curiosity Didn't Kill the Cat
Dead Time
Dear Junia
Does My Head Look Big In This?
Everything Begins and Ends at the Kentucky Club
Funny in Farsi: A Memoir of Growing Up Iranian in America
Fire in the Streets
Fools Crow
Girl in Translation
Good Morning, Mr Sarra: My life working for a stronger, smarter future for our children
The Grass Dancer
Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet
House Made of Dawn
The House on Mango Street
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings
I Love Yous Are for White People
In the Game
The In-Between World of Vikram Lall
Inner City Blues
The Intuitionist
Invisible Man
It Is No Secret
The Joy Luck Club
King's Passion
Kindred
Last Standing Woman
Laughing Boy
Liar
A Life Apart
The Lonely Londoners
Love Medicine
Marcelo in the Real World
Mañana Means Heaven
Mean Spirit
Memories of Rain
Monkey Beach
My Best Friend's Girl
My Place
The Namesake
Native Son
Native Speaker
Night Broken
Passing
Penny Black
The Polished Hoe
Rabbit-Proof Fence: The True Story of One of the Greatest Escapes of All Time
A Raisin in the Sun
The Revolt of the Cockroach People
Sag Harbor
Sammy and Juliana in Hollywood
Silver Sparrow
So Far from God
Songs of Willow Frost
Staying On
Sula
Their Eyes Were Watching God
Three Day Road
Through Black Spruce
The Tree of Death
Two Old Women: An Alaska Legend of Betrayal, Courage and Survival
Waterlily
When the Emperor Was Divine
The Woman Warrior
The Women of Brewster Place
A Yellow Raft in Blue Water

I love the premise of this task. I have a few ideas for what I want to read, but I was wondering about the multiple protagonists part. Can you clarify that a bit for me? I am reading it that if it is a book about two equally strong characters, one a minority and one not, that it wouldn't work. Is that correct? Are there any other considerations to keep in mind?

Also, for those looking for books for this one, most of Toni Morrison and Sherman Alexie's books will work.

Karen GHHS wrote: "I am reading it that if it is a book about two equally strong characters, one a minority and one not, that it wouldn't work. Is that correct?..."

Correct. If the story is told from more than one point of view (narrator or protagnist), all the points of view should be from a minority's perspective. Small Island doesn't work because one of the narrators, Queenie, is not a minority.

Would The Intuitionist work for this task?

Sam wrote: "Would The Intuitionist work for this task?"

I'd accept it.

Great, thanks Liz! :)

Can a religion be a minority like Christians in India or Jews anywhere but Israel or the Amish in the USA, the Morman cult that believes in taking several wives?

Here are other groups in USA I want to check on
American Indians
Cajuns
mentally insane
People of Appalachia

Would you accept The Book Thief?

Rachelccameron wrote: "Would you accept The Book Thief?"

No, the narrator is not a a member of a German minority.

Rebekah wrote: "Can a religion be a minority like Christians in India or Jews anywhere but Israel or the Amish in the USA, the Morman cult that believes in taking several wives?..."

While there are religious minorities, this task is specifically asking for an ethnic/racial minority group within a larger society.

Rebekah wrote: "Here are other groups in USA I want to check on:
American Indians -- Yes
Cajuns -- No
mentally insane -- No
People of Appalachia -- No

"The US census officially recognizes six ethnic and racial categories: White American, Native American and Alaska Native, Asian American, African American, Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, and people of two or more races; a race called "Some other race" is also used in the census and other surveys, but is not official. The United States Census Bureau also classifies Americans as "Hispanic or Latino" and "Not Hispanic or Latino", which identifies Hispanic and Latino Americans as a racially diverse ethnicity that composes the largest minority group in the nation."

Would either of these work?

The Color Purple
Uncle Tom's Cabin

Can I check which of these work please:

Marcelo in the Real World - assuming Marcelo is Hispanic or Latino, I think he is

Empire of the Sun - White British boy in China and Japan

Memories of Rain - I don't know if the man or the woman is the protagonist and which country the book is set in, but I see you've read it Liz so you may remember?

My Best Friend's Girl - narrator is Black British, I've linked to an edition where you can just see her arm on the cover, and I know it's an important aspect of the book, she is a Black woman adopting a White child

These are the UK census ethnic groupings: majority White, minorities Asian and Asian British of various different origins, Black and Black British, Gypsy/Traveller, Mixed/Multiple.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_g...

Isabell wrote: "Would either of these work?"

The Color Purple -- Yes
Uncle Tom's Cabin -- No

Rosemary wrote: "Can I check which of these work please:"


Marcelo in the Real World - yes, narrator's father is Mexican-American, so i will take it

Memories of Rain - yes, narrator is an Indian woman in Britian

My Best Friend's Girl -yes

Would either of these work:

(I'm not sure how to predict how many protagonists there are.)

In the Heat of the Night by John Dudley Ball

White Teeth by Zadie Smith

Would you approve Shōgun by James Clavell? In 1600 a shipwrecked Englishman is captured by the Japanese, becomes immersed in their culture, and ultimately becomes a Samurai. I loved the mini-series that aired quite a while back, but never have read the 1100+ page book.

Liz M wrote: "Isabell wrote: "Would either of these work?"

The Color Purple -- Yes
Uncle Tom's Cabin -- No"

Thanks for checking on these!

D wrote: "Would either of these work:

(I'm not sure how to predict how many protagonists there are.)

In the Heat of the Night by John Dudley Ball

White Teeth by ..."

I read White Teeth recently. Things are told from many different points of view. I'd say the main characters are the two men, Archie and Samad, who are friends. Archie is White and Samad is Asian. The other main points of view are their wives (one Black and one Asian) and their children (Mixed and Asian British), but there are others.

What about Funny in Farsi: A Memoir of Growing Up Iranian in America?

Just curious, why wouldn't Uncle Tom's Cabin work? The protagonist is a black slave.

You've clarified that religious groups do not qualify, but there are a number of groups of people whose ties are both ethnic and religious, and Jews are one of them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnorel.... We can't argue that in 21st century America they are an ethnic minority, since we group all "white americans" together, but throughout most of history (including but not limited to 1949s Germany) Jews were being persecuted as an ethnic minority without regard to actual faith. Does the focus of the task (and the fact that we had a Jewish task recently) negate that experience because of the religious ties, or would the groups in the Wikipedia article qualify?

Also, does the time period in which the book is set change the rules? Even in America our views of ethnicity and race have changed in the last century. For example, today in the USA a person of Hungarian descent is simply one of the majority white, but in the 1890s that person would not have been seen as part of the majority and been called derogatory names.

I understand that there have to be some kind of guidelines in order to determine whether or not books qualify, but this is a complex issue and it's one that the task seems to be directly attempting to address. I'd just hate for us to miss out on books that would absolutely fit the spirit of the task because of a narrow definition.

*I edited this post a number of times because my husband kept asking me to add things. We're both clearly passionate about it :)

Rosemary wrote: "I read White Teeth recently. Things are told from several different points of view. I'd say the main characters are the two men, Archie and Samad, who are friends. Archie is White and S..."

Thanks, Rosemary. That's what I was afraid of.

Maybe I'll have better luck with In the Heat of the Night when Liz rules on it.

Rebekah wrote: "Just curious, why wouldn't Uncle Tom's Cabin work? The protagonist is a black slave."

"The narrator in Uncle Tom’s Cabin is able to present the inner thoughts of all characters and does so frequently. We also follow the adventures of multiple characters: Eliza and her son, Uncle Tom, Augustine St. Clare, and Cassy."

Not all of the protagonists are slaves.

D wrote: "Would either of these work:

(I'm not sure how to predict how many protagonists there are.)

In the Heat of the Night by John Dudley Ball ..."

I can't tell for this mystery novel. The wiki summary seems to have a lot of story happening with Sam Wood as the focus, rather than Virgil Tibbs. I'm inclined to say no.

Theresa~OctoberLace wrote: "Would you approve Shōgun by James Clavell? In 1600 a shipwrecked Englishman is captured by the Japanese, becomes immersed in their culture, and ultimately becomes a Sam..."

It sounds as if the main character becomes a long-term resident of Japan. I'd accept it.

Rebekah wrote: "What about Funny in Farsi: A Memoir of Growing Up Iranian in America?"

Yes

Liz M wrote: "D wrote: "Would either of these work:

(I'm not sure how to predict how many protagonists there are.)

In the Heat of the Night by John Dudley Ball ..."

I can't tell..."

I didn't watch the entire movie, but I know it was on TV, and saw snippets of it. Lots of Rod Steiger. I have no idea if the movie was faithful to the book, but I would think it couldn't be that far off.

Cory (Bigler) '00-'05 wrote: "You've clarified that religious groups do not qualify, but there are a number of groups of people whose ties are both ethnic and religious, and Jews are one of them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et..."

Thank you, these are very good questions! I, unfortunately, have to run and don't have time to sort out my thoughts and give a considered response right now. I just wanted to let you know I am not ignoring this post.

How do you feel about these options?

The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks
She is african american

Liar again African American. It was on a list about books with Minority protagonists

The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao
He is Dominican living in USA

thanks!

Liz M wrote: "Cory (Bigler) '00-'05 wrote: "You've clarified that religious groups do not qualify, but there are a number of groups of people whose ties are both ethnic and religious, and Jews are one of them: h..."

I am curious about the answer, too, because I tend to be a perfectionist and I then have to find every book on my TBR that qualifies ;)

For those who haven't read or seen the movie of The Book Thief I wanted to also let you know that it is not going to qualify here regardless of Liz's answer because the bulk of the protagonists are not Jewish. There is an important Jewish character, but only one.

Actually, I forgot to check Shogun to see if the story is also told from view points of the Japanese warlords or the love interest. Hold that thought.

Liz M wrote: "Actually, I forgot to check Shogun to see if the story is also told from view points of the Japanese warlords or the love interest. Hold that thought."

When you have time, here's a link to a synopsis of the book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8D...

Liz M wrote: "Thank you, these are very good questions! I, unfortunately, have to run and don't have time to sort out my thoughts and give a considered response right now. I just wanted to let you know I am not ignoring this post."

Thanks Liz!

Cory (Bigler) '00-'05 wrote: "You've clarified that religious groups do not qualify, but there are a number of groups of people whose ties are both ethnic and religious, and Jews are one of them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et..."

I am going to use a country's current definition of ethnic/racial minority for this task, so Hungarians in a book set in 1890's US would not qualify.

I realize this definition seems arbitrary and/or too narrow, but with such a nebulous task it is much much easier when the focus is narrow. As it is, Kate & Elizabeth spend more than 10 hours a week verifying book data and scores. I would prefer to not ask the scorekeepers to spend 20 minutes researching each book and its time period in order to determine if it fits this task.

I did not mean to imply Jewish experiences as a minority should be discounted because of the religious ties. I choose to not include them because (as you mentioned) we had a Jewish task recently and because it is too complex of an issue to determine quickly. With Othello as an inspiration, I wrote this tend intending to focus on unequivocal "racial" minorities that, like Othello, have been singled out due to the color of their skin.

Rosemary wrote: "Can I check which of these work please:
Empire of the Sun - White British boy in China..."

I'm going to say no to this one -- there seem to be a lot of references to the main character as British and, therefore, a foreigner rather than minority citizen/long-term resident.

Liz M wrote: "Cory (Bigler) '00-'05 wrote: "You've clarified that religious groups do not qualify, but there are a number of groups of people whose ties are both ethnic and religious, and Jews are one of them: h..."

Totally understood - the clarifications help a lot. Thanks!

Theresa~OctoberLace wrote: "Liz M wrote: "Actually, I forgot to check Shogun to see if the story is also told from view points of the Japanese warlords or the love interest. Hold that thought."

When you have time, here's a ..."

From the wiki page: "In parallel with this plot, the novel also details the intense power struggle between Toranaga and Ishido".

Unfortunately, it looks like Shogun does not qualify.

Rachelccameron wrote: "How do you feel about these options?"

The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks - She is african american
-No, the book's focus is as much about cancer and disease as it is about Henrietta.

Liar again African American. It was on a list about books with Minority protagonists
-Yes, it's told from 1st person perspective by a a seventeen-year-old biracial girl.

The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao - He is Dominican living in USA
-Yes. This one is tricky, but it appears that all the narrators are Dominican-American.

Liz, would it be okay to read Shakespeare's Othello for this task?

Wondering if Mañana Means Heaven would work? As far as I can tell, it's the story of Bea Franco, a Mexican migrant farm worker in California who ends up having an affair with Jack Kerouac. While Kerouac isn't racial/ethnic minority, it looks like the book's protagonist is Bea, since it looks like Kerouac is only in it for about half the book...

Would How the Light Gets In work? The main protagonist, Armand Gamache, is from Quebec.

Anika wrote: "Wondering if Mañana Means Heaven would work? As far as I can tell, it's the story of Bea Franco, a Mexican migrant farm worker in California who ends up having an affair with Jack K..."

It looks like this story is told from Bea's point of view. I'd accept it.

Marie wrote: "Would How the Light Gets In work? The main protagonist, Armand Gamache, is from Quebec."

No. The protagonist may be from Quebec, but as far as I can tell he is not a member of a visible minority group in Canada (defined as "persons, other than Aboriginal people, who are non-Caucasian in race or non-white in colour.")

Theresa~OctoberLace wrote: "Liz, would it be okay to read Shakespeare's Othello for this task?"

This was a difficult decision to make. While Othello was the inspiration for this task, the necessary refinements to clarify the task unfortunately resulted in disqualifying it. I debated allowing an exception, but as this seems to be the most nebulous task I didn't want to create further confusion.

Due to multiple, non-minority narrators, Othello does not qualify for this task.

This is a tricky task. I have read both Shogun and The Joy Luck Club. Although the description of joy luck starts by saying they are recent immigrants, that is just when they start the joy luck club. The book takes place 40 years or so later when their daughters are grown. They are all Chinese. In Shogun, the Japanese protagonists are a huge part of the story and so a lot of it is told from their point of view. One that I think would work that is set in Japan is:

The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet

The other characters are secondary and he lives in Japan for a long while, but It would depend on what the mods think.

I'm planning on
Ceremony
Fire in the Streets (YA)
Boy, Snow, Bird brand new and about "passing" as white and a retelling of Snow White.
Another I'm looking at is:
A Life Apart
The protagonist is a recent immigrant and writes a story about a white woman in India, so it's a complicated one. What do you think, Liz?

Would you accept Sag Harbor?