The Reading Challenge Group discussion

A couple of us were talking about starting a general author read for Thomas Hardy having not got round to reading a lot of his stuff.

Just wondering if other people would be interested in joining in?

Perhaps, we could even start one of his books as February turns to March if we get organised within the next week (:

What should we read first?

I'd definitely be up for this.

I'd like to do Tess of the d'Urbervilles, but I know that many people have probably read this. If not, Far from the Madding Crowd. Honestly, I'll happily do anything.

We don't all have to read the same Hardy book? We could just do a collective 'Hardy read' this month, where we can pick whichever novel we want by him? That way it frees up people who may have read some of his best known works?

Just an idea :)

Holly wrote: "We don't all have to read the same Hardy book? We could just do a collective 'Hardy read' this month, where we can pick whichever novel we want by him? That way it frees up people who may have read..."

Perhaps if/when more people are interested they'll be a clear consensus? So far, it seems that starting with Far from the Madding Crowd might be nice for everyone (:

As I said in the March reads thread, I will be pretty busy next month. That said, if/when I get through my backlog, I will join in to read Far from the Madding Crowd. It might take a while yet, though.

I'm fine to start later in the month, if thats easier for others.

Might be nice to have a read that starts midway through the month instead of at the beginning - good shout, Sandy!

I LOVE Hardy. I'm already planning to read The Trumpet Major in March, but I'd have no problem adding Far From the Madding Crowd to my list as well.

Looks like Far From the Madding Crowd it is then! :D

Great! Is everyone alright to start this one in the middle of the oncoming month, say around the 15th? (:

Definitely!

Cool. I'll bump this topic up closer to the date, as a reminder!

I will try and join in on this read. I'm currently in the middle of reading Tess of the d'Urbevilles, so hopefully I can finish that and them start up on this one by the 15th.

Tara, you'll be all Hardy'd out this month!

I'll try to get to Far From the Madding Crowd next month, too.

How are we feeling about starting this in a couple days? (:

I'm quite excited! Dying to crack the spine on my copy! (ooh, controversial)

I'm afraid I couldn't wait - I've already finished! (It's excellent, btw, but then I'm a Thomas Hardy fan, so I'm biased.)

Lorah wrote: "I still haven't managed to get a copy so I'll have to wait a bit longer :-("

Lorah, if you don't care about reading ebooks, all of Hardy's works are on the Gutenberg Project. :)

I'm used to doing that too, Sandy. I often go simple and turn to Wikipedia first:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_from...

Wikipedia is reviled by scholars, but in truth it's often a great place to start with one's research. I notice that the related links go to a map of FFTMC's England -- i.e. it points to the towns/cities mentioned in the novel.

When it comes to certain novels, I enjoy using Google Maps to supplement my reading. Take Ulysses, for instance. Joyce wrote it so you can follow the characters' routes through Dublin. It'll be interesting to see if Hardy mentions any streets or places that still exist.

Aitziber wrote: "When it comes to certain novels, I enjoy using Google Maps to supplement my reading. Take Ulysses, for instance. Joyce wrote it so you can follow the characters' routes through Dublin. It'll be interesting to see if Hardy mentions any streets or places that still exist"

That's really interesting, I've never thought to do that!

I haven't actually managed to start it yet, my thesis is due on Monday - so, pretty much everything is being abandoned until then!

hey guys, are we actually posting our FFTMC comments on this thread? I'm about halfway through and it's definitely growing on me (although I do have a few things to get off my chest when I'm done!!) I can't wait to hear what everybody though of it :o) are you all enjoying it?

Jude wrote: "hey guys, are we actually posting our FFTMC comments on this thread?"

Yes, Jude. :) I haven't started reading yet, I'll probably start right now. I'd love to read your comments!

Brilliant! I will try and finish within the next day or two (I'm making notes as we speak) although I must warn you in advance I think my first post will be a bit of a rant ;o)

The term cliffhanger is considered to have originated with Thomas Hardy's serial novel A Pair of Blue Eyes in 1873. In the novel, Hardy chose to leave one of his protagonists, Knight, literally hanging off a cliff staring into the stony eyes of a trilobite embedded in the rock that has been dead for millions of years. This became the archetypal — and literal — cliff-hanger of Victorian prose.

This comes from the Hardy author page here on Goodreads. Interesting! I feel like I knew about this, but had forgotten.

Mayme, I wish you luck with your thesis! I want to write one of my own someday.

Jude, please. I love your rants. ;) We just need to make sure we don't veer wildly offtopic.

Sandy, when it comes to Wikipedia, the jury's definitely still out. It really depends on how much the scholar in question knows and understands about the internet, and Wikipedia specifically. It also depends on the version. I hear German wikipedia is consistently more technical than the English version, but I don't understand enough German yet to say.

When it comes to modernist novels, reading along with Google Maps greatly enhances the text, in my opinion. We shall see about Hardy, though.

Am I the only one who can't pronounce Bathsheba?

I'm less than 100 pages into it, but so far I am enjoying it greatly. I am partial to a novel with a strong willed woman.

I feel like that would have been revolutionary for the time period? unfortunately, i'm quite ignorant of context.

Aitziber, thanks! I managed to hand it in. I'm now just terrified that it's rubbish!

Mayme wrote: "Am I the only one who can't pronounce Bathsheba?"

I grew up hearing the David and Bathsheba story from the Bible a million times, so I never even thought about it being a difficult name to figure out! It's pronounced Bath-SHEE-bah.

I've got about 100 pages to go... I'm hoping Bathsheba's a happy ending. I'm not usually one to champion unrelistic happy endings but she's such a strong-willed character, I really hope she gets it! First thoughts shall be posted soon :o)

RE: Bathsheba's name. I was pronouncing it Bath-shee-ba, but apparently it's more like Bath-shi-ba. Hope that helps Mayme?

Jude wrote: "RE: Bathsheba's name. I was pronouncing it Bath-shee-ba, but apparently it's more like Bath-shi-ba. Hope that helps Mayme? "

Some people do put the stress on the first syllable, yeah.

Man, Faye, I'll be very annoyed if I was incorrectly corrected and I was right the first time! Has anybody finished the novel yet?

Jude wrote: "Man, Faye, I'll be very annoyed if I was incorrectly corrected and I was right the first time! Has anybody finished the novel yet?"

I think either way is correct. Actually, it would be correct to say it in a Hebrew accent, I guess. ;)

I'm finished! I loved it.

Ok I'm finished! And as promised, or forewarned as the case may be, here's my little rant about things I need to get off my chest (I'm doing this purely so I can then focus on more positive aspects of the novel and perhaps start some fierce debates - my favourite).

1. (This was probably my biggest pet peeve). THE NARRATOR'S ABSURD INTERJECTIONS THROUGHOUT THE NOVEL ON THE NATURE OF WOMEN. All delivered in such a fashion as to believe the narrator was God Himself. My fav: 'There are occassions when girls like Bathsheba will put up with a great deal of unconventional behaviour. When they want to be praised, which is often; when they want to be mastered, which is sometimes; and when they want no nonsense, which is seldom'. There are so many examples like this in the book, and I couldn't quite work out whether he was creating this narrative voice as witty and ironic to rival the best of Austen or not. The lack of true psychological depth and philosophical understanding in other areas of the book suggest to me not.

2. IT IS THE SINGLE MOST PREDICTABLE NOVEL OUTSIDE THE REALMS OF PULP FICTION I HAVE READ. When you guess the precise nature of the denoument hundreds of pages before they occur it is difficult not to question the authenticity of a writer. And the key word is precise here. We all know when we read an Austen it will end in a fairytale-like wedding (duh!) but it is the process to which we arrive at that which keeps us on tenterhooks. In fact it's the 'how'of any great book that truly keeps us reading to the end even when we know the ultimate outcome. With Hardy, we guess the how, often down to smallest detail, which leaves me with the impression that, far from being a cerebral chronicler of the intricateness of pastoral life, he ultimately functions as something of a puppeteer, and a not very imaginative one at that.

3. AWFUL DEPICTION OF RURAL WORKERS: The scenes where he depicts the farmers talking and drinking are some of the most cliched, inauthentic, patronizing and BORING passages I've ever had the displeasure to read in all of literature (Dicken's woeful charicatures included).

$. BOLDWOOD: I'm not actually sure if this is a criticsm or not but - Boldwood is the single most ridiculous character ever created in literature (worse than Mr Collins, worse than Rosamond Vincy, worse than Heathcliffe). If this was Hardy's deliberate intention, then I applaud him, he has succeeded admirably. Are we genuinely meant to believe that Bathsheba deserves the treatment he meshes out to her simply because she sends a single, thoughtless Valentine's? How utterly absurd, even by Victorian standards. If you're going to use a plot device such as this to stand for a larger point in the story (in this case a process for necessitating Bathsheba's self knowledge) at least make it plausible. Or. again, perhaps he is making a wider point about the absurdities of rural life... What do you guys think?

%. PUNISHING STRONG WOMEN: I'm not sure if it is an actual criticism of Hardy that he seems hell bent on punishing his strong, assertive heroine or whether he is making the point that it is society itself which is structured to punish them. I'm going to end on an optimistic note and suggest that he views female strength positively, albeit as something which is not without burden: 'When a strong woman recklessly throws away her strength she is worse than a weak woman who never had any strength to throw away'. In other words, don't act like a submissive airhead just cos that guy's super duper cute right?!

Jude wrote: "Ok I'm finished! And as promised, or forewarned as the case may be, here's my little rant about things I need to get off my chest (I'm doing this purely so I can then focus on more positive aspects..."

I definitely got the impression that he was showing the dangers of a strong woman throwing her strength away. He tended to write his books in such a way that they show us common mistakes that society or individuals make that cause severe repercussions for those around them. Like Dickens was trying to create a better world for orphans and the poor by showing people what life is like in their shoes, Hardy was constantly trying to show people what life is like in a woman's shoes when she does something or someone does something to her that society frowns on. Tess of the D'Urbervilles, for instance - a woman who, through no fault of her own, lost her virtue and was forced to fend for herself for the rest of her life because no other man would want her. I mean, seriously, how ridiculous is that?? And Hardy made a point of shoving it in the reader's face just how ridiculous that is.

As for predictability... actually, not so much, if you're a regular Thomas Hardy reader. (view spoiler)[His books usually end in tragedy, so the fact that this was a "happy" ending with the main female character and the nicest male character finally getting their act together in the end was a complete surprise to me! I was fully expecting Bathsheba and/or Gabriel to die or the farm to burn to the ground or some other horrendous thing to happen, or at the very least for Gabriel to get sick of waiting around and just take off and leave Bathsheba alone with her land for the rest of her life. (hide spoiler)]

In case anyone wants to mix things up with an audio version... Librivox has 2 of FFTMC, but the reader on Version 2 is Ty Hynes and he is fabulous, with his IrishWelsh (not sure which) accent. I listened to him read David Copperfield earlier this year and found him every bit as good as a professional recording.

Undoubtably by now I imagine everyone aside from me has finished this!

However, even unfinished, I must say I too am quite annoyed about Hardy's interjections on the nature of women, or particularly his insistence on trying to show what life was/is for a woman like Bathesheba in rural Victorian England when he clearly was not Bathesheba living in rural Victorian England. I can appreciate his sympathy toward women and how he wants to prove the ills of society's treatment of them... I guess I just find it a bit "off" that he's trying to speak on behalf of them?

Again, I guess, I can appreciate that there was probably no such thing as an autonomous liberation group in Victorian England, nonetheless it's important to acknowledge and highlight slightly misguided thinking even in the things we like! (:

I think that (at this risk of resorting to sexism myself) he achieves sympathy with women but clearly does not understand how to empathise with women, in the sense of actually understanding them as individuals. The idea that a woman as smart and sassy as Bathsheba would be remotely stupid enough to fall for Troy's laughably blundering attempts to manipulate her. And Oak was seriously boring. Decent, kind, supportive, yes. But boring. Are we genuinely meant to be convinced that a woman like Bathsheba would be genuinely happy with ANY of these men?

The real irony for me is that Hardy did show Bathsheba as a strong, independent woman who faced challenges normally reserved for men and she did so quite capably. She was also adamant that she was happy alone so in the end I was left with the sense that (1) she was 'punished' for stepping out of line of what was considered 'socially acceptable' for women at the time (thanks for that Hardy) and (2) she settled for less than she deserved romantically. I can't identify with a book where the heroine at the end is more diminished as a character that she was to begin with. When I think of the classic novels I love where there's a cliched happy ending (Pride and Prejudice, Jane Eyre, Middlemarch, etc) I feel like the couples make sense, that they are equals and somehow just work together. With Oak and Bathsheba it's more like an unhealthy dependency and zero spark, which just left me with a bad taste in my mouth :o/

holy old topic revival!

I dare say everyone has finished this book?

I'll be honest, I'm still on chapter 46, however I can't see myself finishing it. I just can't bring myself to do it. I've found it far too arduous, and it's just not for me. (Furthermore, looking over the discussion here I don't think the ending is going to turn out for me either, so I'm cutting my losses! However, having read almost 80% of it already, I feel that it's fair that I count it toward my challenge.)

Shall we brave another Hardy book?
I'm not sure I can quite bare it yet, but I don't mind sitting this one out as you all go ahead, and then catching up a little later.

Sandy wrote: "Mayme wrote: "holy old topic revival!

I dare say everyone has finished this book?

I'll be honest, I'm still on chapter 46, however I can't see myself finishing it. I just can't bring myself to d..."

That makes me feel less "bad" about it! I mean, it's such a cult classic that was recommended to me by everyone and their mum. Nevermind, I guess!

Honestly guys, no... I don't think I want to read Hardy for a long long time! Unless somebody can suggest a novel where he doesn't render such a wonderful female character into fodder for a boring, inadequate male then I simply have no interest. He nothing short of bound and gagged poor Bathsheba in the end :o/ awful!