The Challenge Factory discussion

Jennifer C & Leo - Oryx and Crake

Hey Jennifer,
have you already started? I'm at chapter 3 and the book really sucks me in :) It's a pity that I don't have much time to read

I haven't started yet. I'm still waiting for it from my library. I should have it soon. I'm glad it's really good though.

Stop in every once in a while and post your thoughts. Just use spoilers and I'll catch up as soon as I get the book. I'm hoping I get it early next week.

Ok :) I already read the second book of the MaddAdam-trilogy, The Year of the Flood which is basically the same story from a very different perspective. That's why I started Oryx and Crake with some spoilers and some background knowledge ;)

Thoughts on chapter 3
(view spoiler)[I find the relationship between Jimmy and his mother interesting.

It feels pretty real to me (just read an article in the newspaper about a children growing up with mentally disordered parents, but wouldn't know first hand), but also reminds me of other fictional stories which incorporate the same element. (hide spoiler)]

Thoughts on chapter 6
(view spoiler)[I don't know what I think about Oryx backstory... I kind of sympathize with Jimmy's baffled reaction to her unaffected way of telling her story, but he also seems kind of selfish, as if he wants her to be a victim. (hide spoiler)]

Finished :-)

(view spoiler)[Well, the ending is pretty open and abrupt and I was shocked about Jimmy's actions at the end, for example that he left the Paradice scientists to die and shot people who asked for help. I understand that he did it for his own survival, but it seemed pretty inhumane.

Its also ironic in the context that he feels so alone and goes crazy because he has no other human being to talk to.

What did you think? If you would like to read the second book, I would be in for a reread. :-) (hide spoiler)]

I finally just got this from the library today. I'm in the middle of a few books and I'll probably start this around Friday. I'll post as I go, so please check back and discuss!

I guess you liked it, though. You gave it 5 stars! That makes me excited to start it.

Yes, I liked it very much, even if it's hard to put in words what I liked about it ;-) I hope you'll like too :D

I finally got this a couple days ago and I started it last night. I just finished Chapter 3.

I'm liking it so far. I read your spoiler up to chapter 3 and I agree. Their relationship is interesting. I'm wondering what exactly is wrong with his mother. Did she just have a breakdown because of the pressure of being a scientist at such a crucial time? Neither of his parents seem to be very good with kids. They say things that scare him constantly. I do like that the book is written from his point of view as an adult and he is remembering his childhood. You get to find out things that happened to him as a child, but also his take on his life thinking back on it as an adult. For instance when he was a kid and his mother told him that she quit her job to be with him more he didn't question it, but as an adult he's wondering why she would wait until he's going to school to quit and be with him when he needed her more in the years leading up to that point.

This line seemed very ominous. It's when he was thinking about his nanny Dolores...

...nobody needed two mummies, did they? Oh yes they did, thinks Snowman. Oh yes, they really did.

It makes me wonder if he is just saying that because he missed his nanny and felt like he still needed her because his mother wasn't a very good one, or if something more serious is going to happen that could have been prevented with another adult around the house.

Oh, and I'm trying to decide if he has his mothers crazy tendencies, or if the way he is was caused by being alone for so long.

And where did those kids come from? If there is a group of people around somewhere, why isn't he a part of the group? Why is he all alone? There must be some adults somewhere, right?

Later on there is a bit more information about the reason for his mother's depression. That she is not leaving the house and can not find any motivation for doing something also indicates a depression to me. Her inability to create emotional contact to her son and her paradoxical actions (not taking care of him at all, then suddenly preparing a elaborate meal for him) reminds me of things I read about borderline syndrome.

That his parents are not good with kids, is a very important point, I think. It challenges the view that parenting is something natural which everyone is able to do without help from the outside.

In the comment above, are you referring to the kids in school? He does seem to have some part in their group, the part of the class clown. He's trying to earn attention, at home and at school. It's becoming clearer later that he is creating a Jimmy persona which gets him attention, but also isolates him.

I guess there are adults, but when you are so young, are you interested in them or would you remember them?

No. I was referring to the kids that he ran into as an adult. He must come across them often because they seemed to know who he was but he wasn't part of their group. They were asking him if the things that they found were dangerous.

oh, the Crakers :) there is more about them later on, and why he is separating himself from them. There are adults around ;)

Oh, OK. I have a long drive today, so I'll probably get to listen to about 2 hours. I'll have more updates later today. It's really interesting so far though. I'm reading and listening and the narrator on the audio is really good.

I finished chapter 4. That was a long chapter. I thought I would've gotten through more than that today. Anyway...

Jimmy/Snowman and Glenn/Crake's relationship is definitely strange. They watch an awful lot of porn together. I didn't expect Oryx to be a girl that they saw on one of the porn sites.

I can't believe his mother just left him. I'm actually more surprised that she even bothered to send him the post cards though. It would have been nice if the story had started out when Jimmy's parents still worked together because I'm assuming that at that point they still liked each other. All of their interactions have been so cold and uncomfortable. I do think that his mother was depressed, but I think that her job had a lot to do with her depression. I think that when she started she had intentions of really helping people, but things just got out of control and she didn't like the direction things were headed, but her husband didn't agree and it created this huge chasm between them. She was obviously upset that only the rich could benefit from the work that they were doing, but it really just pushed her off the deep end.

Yes, Jimmy and Glenn watch way too much porn. But maybe that's what teenage boys are actually doing? Bonding over porn? I found this part also a bit disgusting.

I agree that it would have been interesting to see the gradual alienation of his parents instead of being presented with the already screwed up state of affairs. I wonder why his mother didn't try to get him out of the compound too.

I just finished this. I honestly don't even know what to say. This book was so hard to do as a buddy read because it was so all over the place. I don't even know what to rate it. I'm probably going to go with 4 stars, but I might change it after I think about things. I just think that there were too many things thrown together. It's a real kitchen sink of a book. I don't know if all that was necessary. I didn't feel a depth or connection to the characters that could have been possible if there weren't so many things going on. Even the tense changes were kinda choppy. I don't know what else to call it. It was just very abrupt when changing from Jimmy to Snowman and back.

I also did not understand the motivations of Oryx or Crake/Glenn. I guess I rated the book so high in the context of the sequel, which is really really different from this book.

I'm glad you guys got to the end of this one. I got to about 30/40% and got to the bit with the children being filmed for sex and DNF it made me too uncomfortable reading it. Does it get any better? it was a little bit weird for me.!

It definitely is a weird book and the main character is not exactly likeable or at all times comprehensible... I liked the way the book was about language itself and I could identify with Jimmy in some ways, (view spoiler)[for example his drifting through his life without direction and his resulting depression. (hide spoiler)]

There were also a lot of things that shocked me and disgusted me, like the child pornography. Or (view spoiler)[the way he just killed of people in the end. I just couldn't relate to that. I understand in some way that he had reasons for doing this, but it seemed so inhumane. (hide spoiler)]

There is one game they are playing, Blood&Roses, which really unsettled me. One side is producing great cultural works and the other side can render them useless through crimes against humanity.

Jennifer, I agree with your statement that this is a real kitchen sink of book. It's really more a collection then a coherent story.

Leo wrote: "I also did not understand the motivations of Oryx or Crake/Glenn. I guess I rated the book so high in the context of the sequel, which is really really different from this book."

You said that the second one is the same story from someone else's POV? Is it one of the people on the beach at the end? Or who? Is the person even in this book at all? I'm just curious. I'll probably read it, but not soon.

Vicci Audio Nerd wrote: "I'm glad you guys got to the end of this one. I got to about 30/40% and got to the bit with the children being filmed for sex and DNF it made me too uncomfortable reading it. Does it get any better..."

Yeah, I agree. It was a really dark book and I felt like I was wandering around in the mind of a crazy person. It was so scattered. I guess it makes sense that it was written that way because he did have reasons to be crazy and if a crazy person is thinking back on his childhood, things are coming from his perspective as said crazy person. LOL I had to take A LOT of breaks and go to different books while reading it, but I plowed through. I don't ever DNF books. I always have that hope that it's going to get better. Usually not the case.

Jennifer C. wrote: "Leo wrote: "I also did not understand the motivations of Oryx or Crake/Glenn. I guess I rated the book so high in the context of the sequel, which is really really different from this book."

You s..."

The second book is written from the point of view of two women who also survived the pandemic. It describes how they survive and tells us their back story. But it is also really violent at some points ^^

One of the women, Brenda, actually went to school with Jimmy, and the other woman was part of God's Gardeners (an environmentalist group which is mentioned sometimes in the book).

Oh, I thought maybe the two books would converge with them running into Jimmy at the end. Because we don't know how he handles that situation. If he attacks, or tries to talk to them. He's just some crazy naked guy strolling down the beach. LOL

That's actually what happens, good guess :) I just omitted it for surprise's sake ;)

LOL That's okay. I don't think it ruins anything. I just kinda figured that the two books should have SOMETHING that ties the two together, and that's the thing that made the most sense to me.