A Song of Ice and Fire - A Chapter a day discussion

. I really liked the introduction to this chapter. The story of Alyssa Arryn was so interesting to read, she had a really hard life and saw a lot of people she loved died. Yet she never cried, and I think it's beautiful how the statue of hers, even if it has tears, never got to the valley floor far below.

. So, Jaime is gathering a host, Edmure is willing to fight and Ser Rodrik's whiskers are almost fully back, and he looks so much like before.

. Catelyn wants to go, she thinks this whole trial is nonsense, and so do I. Again, she is smart and realised Tyrion played her sister, althought I believe it was not so hard to tell.

. I like how she defined Lysa as inconstant. I think it's a word appropiate for her. I would also add stupid.

. With this whole thing about Jaime rasing an army, her uncle asks her for swors, and she says no. So, The Blackfish says he will leave for Riverrun, and that she could find another Knight of the Gate. She thinks no one can hurt her or her son up in there.

. Interesting how they tried so many times, yet no godswood grow. I forgot about it.

. Maybe it's because Lysa is her sister and I assume she knows her better than most, so she realises Lysa won't marry any of the man she says she might. I wonder if Catelyn thinks her sister will ever marry again.

. Lysa isn't the sharpest mind around, so she didn't listen to her sister in any occasion about this topic. She doesn't realise, as Catelyn did how much of a good fighter Bronn is. She also knows she is alive in part of the fight he gave the mens of the clan.

. Catelyn believes the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn, but she's not so sure which one. Funny she thinks it might've been Tyrion just because he is there. I really liked Ser Rodrik's analysis of which Lannister did it.

. Now, Maester Colemon shows up and pretty drunk. He says Robert was meant to be fosteres in Dragonstone, where Stannis lives, and not in Casterly Rock, as it was mention before. He also says Jon wanted this, and wasn't settle after his death. A curious matter if you ask me.

. Ser Vardis is heavily armored, while Bronn is barely. Bronn is 15 years younger. He must be very confident in himself.

. The ceremony was really compelling to read about. It seems they all take it pretty seriously.

. So, Bronn refused the shiled he was offered, and Catelyn observes his sword is extremely sharp.

. The way Catelyn could tell Bronn¿s strategy while he was fighthing shows how smart she is. She hasn't been taught how to fight, yet she can tell how he is moving, and he's making Ser Vardis grow tired.

. She knows remember when Brandon and Petyr fought for her. She gave Brandon her favor, and refused to give it to Littlefinger. She said to Brandon how much Petyr meant for her, so he said he would spare his life. He seems like a good man. So sad we know almost nothing about him. After this fight, she never saw Littlefinger again, until they meet again in King's Landing.

. Again, Lysa is so stupid. Telling Ser Vardis to finish the fight when he is dying. Is she blind to everything?

. Alyssa's statue crushed Ser Vardis. I think you could say she killed him in a way. Bronn finished it, but she started.

. Catelyn knows this won't end her, the Lannisters won't forget about it like it was nothing.

. I have to say, it was kinda (just kinda) smart of Lysa sending Tyrion and Bronn through the high road, where they will probably meet again with the clans.

You know, I haven't thought about the fact that Catelyn is a lady and wouldn't know much about fighting, but despite this she can still tell what's going on just by observing. You are right. Cat is very perceptive!

1. Alyssa's Tears is the name of the great waterfall in the Vale, it tumbles down the Giant's Lance and I believe it is the tallest waterfall in Westeros, if not the world. It sounds so beautiful!

2. Alyssa was an Arryn, been dead for 6,000 years now. The Arryns were Andals and worshipped the Seven. Didn't realize they've been around that long. It's pretty amazing how not a single drop of the falls has ever touched the valley floor far below, it's so high up. The elevation sickness must be terrific.

3. Interesting to note Catelyn says her father would not have given the defense of Riverrun over to Edmure, her brother, unless he was very sick. Why? We will find out in future chapters!

4. Cat wants to go to Winterfell straight away, right as soon as the trial by combat is over, to be with her sons again. And because he's tired of her sister's stupidity, I imagine.

5. Like this: "Lysa's policies varied with her moods, and her moods changed hourly." What hellhole to be in, living under the same roof as her! How did Jon Arryn stay sane for so long? She even pisses off their Uncle Brynden! He's had it up to here with her. He plans to go back to Riverrun to help protect it from the Lannisters, because he's still a Tully, and he refuses to hide in the Vale. I really like the Blackfish. :)

6. Interesting to note they have tried for eons to get a weirwood to grow in the Eyrie's godswood, but no matter how much soil they cart up they could never get a weirwood to take root. Perhaps it's just the altitude. Instead, their godswood is full of shrubs. This is where they're going to combat, too.

7. It's so nice to see everyone enjoying themselves just as they're about to watch a trial by combat! It's like entertainment to them...sort of reminds me of Hunger Games. Brynden calls this "the fool's festival." Small wonder.

8. Lysa's two favored suitors couldn't be further from what she'd want. One is rumored to be gay, another really, really old.

9. Catelyn doesn't want Tyrion harmed because he's worth more alive than dead at this point. She knows a war is about to start over this, and it will go very badly if he's dead, and if he lives, he goes free, so they lose their advantage of having a hostage on the playfield. Lysa just wants to see the bad man fly...ugh. More like he's the scapegoat.

10. I strongly dislike when men say women understand little of something. In this case, whether the knight or sellsword prevails. They are all so sure the knight will win, but Cat saaw Bronn fighting... Who knows little in the arts of fighting, gentlemen?

11. I like how once again, Cat warns her Tyrion is her prisoner.

12. Cat admits she believes the Lannisters murdered Lord Arryn, but isn't sure if Tyrion did it any more or less than his brother or sister. And Cat knows Lysa's mentioned Cersei in the letter -- now she seems to have totally forgotten about her, and blames Tyrion all too eagerly. Suspicious!

13. Catelyn can tell Robert will never be strong enough to rule without discipline, and he can't get that with his mother hanging around him. Even Cat knows he needs to get away from her. Apparently, Lord Jon wanted to send his son to Dragonstone for fostering. That would be with Stannis and his daughter! Cat was sure it was Casterly Rock he was rumored to go to, not Dragonstone, and that it was arranged only after Jon Arryn's passing. But she doesn't know Lord Jon had already made plans with Stannis. (Of course, Lysa would not want either to happen...)

14. Ser Vardis Egen wears Arryn colors and even the sigil, heavily armored like a good knight. Whereas Bronn wears light armor. The better to move around, my dear. What's worse, Lysa makes the knight fight with Lord Jon's sword, to avenge him by. This only makes the knight more uncomfortable, with a sword he's never used before.

15. Seems odd Lord Hunter thinks Bronn's quick movements are cowardly while Ser Rodrik states what he's doing is actually pretty smart. Ser Rodrik being a master-at-arms, so he'd know these things. This confirms Cat's initial thinking.

16. Cat flashbacks to Brandon Stark and Petyr Baelish's fight. Poor Petyr had asked for a favor to wear but she ignored him and gave one to Brandon instead. Ouch. I wonder how long and well she knew her betrothed at this time, if he'd be a dick about it...like James Potter to Severus Snape, lol. *SPECULATION ON PETYR BAELISH* (view spoiler)[Except I don't think Petyr is going to redeem himself in the end, lol (hide spoiler)].

17. The only reason Littlefinger is alive is because Cat begged Brandon not to kill him, because he's like a brother to her, ugh. Poor Petyr refused to yield, despite Branding urging him to yield, that's nice of him at least. Cat is surprised she'd forgotten the look of Petyr's eyes as he got hurt. Interesting she's thinking about it now. Even Edmure was Brandon's quire during the duel...ouch. Their lord father banished him back to the fingers, where he'd been born. How much Littlefinger has grown since then...

18. Bronn fights dirty, not like a knight, but in the end it's wit, street smarts, that saves him.

19. It's kind of funny that the stone statue of Alyssa Arryn helped Bronn win.

20. It's truly sad how little Robert Arryn understands what's going on. Though I suppose many 6-year-olds might not understand.

21. The Arryn House words: "As high as honor." Tyrion reminds Lysa this, in case she forgets and tries to kill or imprison him again. As much as she is furious, at least she is smart enough to let him go, despite her son's tantrum. *SPOILER FOR A STORM OF SWORDS* (view spoiler)[And because we know she knows he's innocent -- Tyrion had really meant for her to remember to be honorable in that regard, as well. This woman has so little honor... (hide spoiler)] But instead of being kind and letting Tyrion go home via Gulltown like Catelyn plans to do, she makes him go back the way they came -- another death sentence, Catelyn realizes. She can see Tyrion's internal rage, but he bows anyways and thanks her. Lysa is insufferable.

Lol at your point 4, I believe she is tired of Lysa as well. I mean, who wouldn't?
About your point 10, I understand what you mean. I also think like that, but the books are set in a time were being a woman only meant to be pretty and bring sons, not daughters to their husband. And get marry of course, because that was the point of life. But it's really interesting George wrote such powerful female characters who get away a lot of times with what they want despite being a woman. It's a really interesting point to discuss!
*SPECULATION ON PETYR BAELISH* (view spoiler)[After reading all the books I still think Petyr didn't love Catelyn in the books, I think he did when he was a boy, but I don't think he does anymore. And all the thing that happens with Sansa, him trying to marry her, I think it shows he didn't love her mother. Being as sick as he is, I thought he would marry Sansa, since she is just like Catelyn. But he doesn't. Anyway, I just think he loves himself and doesn't give a shit about anyone. (hide spoiler)]
And sorry for the language, but fuck Lysa. I can't stand her.

lol! I think somewhere in the beginning of our discussions Dani said not to swear on here so I try not to, but I completely agree with you. Lysa can go fuck herself.

I've heard that one of the criticisms of GRRM's world is that women get a bad rep in his books. However, I knew very early on in my readings that sexism was very common even in our own feudal history, so it doesn't totally make me outraged when I read about women getting raped, beaten, or screwed over in some way or other because that's just the harsh world they live in. One thing I really like about George, is how MANY female characters in his book series still manage to prevail, and like you said -- can get away with what they want despite being a woman, despite all of that sexism. But it isn't just hating on women. There's cripples, homosexuals, bastards, the poor, etc. who get just as much abuse, yet they also can prevail. Sure, there's quite a bit of what I would call "unnecessary sex scenes" in the show, like the sexy-Melissandre scenes was really weird...but I'm not here to criticize the show. I'm talking about the book series. Every sex scene in the book, at least, I felt was real and moved the story along. There's a bunch of people I want to recommend the book series to but they say they've seen or heard of the show and they're not interested in reading about women getting treated that way, sorry. It's annoying.

And about your point about Petyr Baelish...*SPOILERS ABOUT PETYR* (view spoiler)[I have to agree with you. Petyr definitely loved Catelyn when they were younger, but now I think she has humiliated him so much that he is not solely angry with the Starks but also with her. I agree with you, I think Littlefinger loves only Littlefinger, and he probably wants to watch the whole world burn. Sometimes I wonder if he has any feelings whatsoever for Sansa, any part of him that may have carried over from his childhood feelings for Cat, but I am starting to doubt it the more I reread about him in A Game of Thrones. I think he is using Sansa. (hide spoiler)]

Oh I don't remember if she did! But it's really hard for me, because I do swear a lot in my everyday life, so I have to erase most of the things I write. But Lysa is just too much, I can't even and she stresses me so much I have to insult her.

I do believe the show has way too much sex, but I have seen a lot of series of HBO, and most of them do, like out of nowhere of for no reason. But it annoys me too, a friend told me she didn't read the books because of the show, it was too much gore and sex. But even though the books are violent, I never had to stop reading because it was too much for me. One of Cersei's scenes in the fourth book that I'm pretty sure you know what is, was the worst to read for me. But I do appreciate George R R Martin treated the characters like they were treated at that time.

*SPOILERS ABOUT PETYR* (view spoiler)[I have a friend who always argues with me that he loves her, but I don't think he does anymore. All the things that he does to Ned, to her family in general directly or not so directly, shows he doesn't love her anymore. I think maybe at the beggining his idea was that maybe, because Sansa looks so much like her mother, he would try to wed her, since he couldn't wed her mother. But even if that was his plan, I don't think he really cares about her, and wants to take advantage from every single person. We know he thinks really far in time, like with the knife he said was Tyrion's. What did he want with that? If he had a purpose I forgot about it, but a part of me makes me think he just does it for fun, putting people against each other I mean. (hide spoiler)]