THE Group for Authors! discussion
General Discussion
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Option to accept review requests
Gita,Even if Goodreads were to revise its current policy, a Federal Trade Commission (FTC) regulation still requires that any review that has been solicited, purchased or swapped include a disclaimer stating so.
Jim wrote: "Gita,Even if Goodreads were to revise its current policy, a Federal Trade Commission (FTC) regulation still requires that any review that has been solicited, purchased or swapped include a discla..."
I am not suggesting that the disclaimer should go. What I'm saying is that a writer should be able to contact a member who is interested in reviewing books. It should be transparent. Spam is unwanted mail, and is unpleasant and annoying. But if a member says he welcomes review requests, and a writer sends him one, it is not spam. It doesn't,t violate FTC regulations either.
That's a fantastic idea. I could definitely use something like that. Lots of new authors could.
I think it’s a great idea! The Goodreads community sometimes suffers from miscommunication about expectations. Some people want one experience here, and others want another kind of experience, but they have no way of saying what it is exactly that they want. Some readers feel that any mention by an author of his/her work is intrusive, but others like to be supportive of authors’ efforts in a variety of ways. Some feel Goodreads is only for readers, while others feel it should serve the needs of both readers and writers. Transparency, as Gita says, is key.
1) A member is already free to include this sort of info in their profile, and some do. I've come across it many times.2) Groups created for such purposes are a much better way of finding eager reviewers.
3) It won't cut down on authors spamming (inadvertently or otherwise) members because the most egregious offenders have already shown that they don't read things like rules and profiles.
Christa wrote: "1) A member is already free to include this sort of info in their profile, and some do. I've come across it many times.2) Groups created for such purposes are a much better way of finding eager r..."
Members being free to include information in their profile and having a mandatory field / flag are, in my opinion, different things.
Two years ago, when GR authors had 'friends' and not 'followers', and GR encouraged authors to invite their 'friends' to review their books, I sent out a few review requests.
Some members did not respond, a few expressed their inability to find a review slot, a minority accepted and went on to review a few more books, and one got offended. She felt my request was spam mail until I explained to her that I had followed the GR suggestion on my book page.
All the members whom I had contacted did not have anything about accepting/refusing review requests in their profiles. But they reacted differently. And the one who was offended made me wary of sending a review request again.
I think it will be a useful feature. Perhaps it could be linked to a spam alert :)
Gita wrote: "Members being free to include information in their profile and having a mandatory field / flag are, in my opinion, different things."Mandatory? No way would I be in favor of such a thing being mandatory. In your original post, you stated, "If a member profile has the option...", nothing about it being a mandatory field.
It probably doesn't seem like a big deal from your point of view, but from a non-author's point of view, one is being forced to decide whether or not to participate in something that isn't even a primary function of the site.
I stand by my assertion that there are better ways to find potential reviewers.
Christa wrote: "Gita wrote: "Members being free to include information in their profile and having a mandatory field / flag are, in my opinion, different things."Mandatory? No way would I be in favor of such a t..."
Christa is 100% right. I did well with accruing reviews by including a hand written note with my giveaway copies.
Christa wrote: "Gita wrote: "Members being free to include information in their profile and having a mandatory field / flag are, in my opinion, different things."Mandatory? No way would I be in favor of such a t..."
Sorry, needn't be mandatory...that's my banking background creeping in :0
I wouldn't mind something on my profile that would allow me to opt in to receiving review requests (with opt out being the default setting), especially if GR put into place a mandatory review request process for authors to follow that wouldn't allow them to send a review request to anyone who hadn't opted in to the program. This would kill two birds with one stone - people who are opted out wouldn't receive requests that they consider spam, and authors could be certain that if a review request went through, the recipient wouldn't complain that it was spam. It might actually smooth off one of the rough edges between authors and readers.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "I wouldn't mind something on my profile that would allow me to opt in to receiving review requests (with opt out being the default setting), especially if GR put into place a mandatory review reque..."Actually, I could see this being a completely separate "program", rather than it even being profile-related. A completely opt-in reviewer program. Bonus points if, as you suggest, it became the only way authors were allowed to solicit reviews on the site.
I can still see ways that it would be misused on both ends, but it solves the problem of it being in the "reader space", so to speak, which was honestly the basis for my objections. (I react badly to readers being seen as just "potential reviewers".)
Moonlight Reader’s description is exactly how I understood Gita’s idea, and I think it would be wonderful!
I don't see any way this could possibly work out well. Anyone who opts in would be flooded with requests and it would overwhelm everyone. There are far better ways to reach potential reviewers. Google is your friend. Search for book bloggers who are open to review requests and follow their request guidelines TO THE LETTER.If a GR user doesn't have a blog, they are free to put their review guidelines in their profile, but it requires authors to do some legwork. But you should be doing that anyway. Don't request reviews from someone simply because they're open to requests if they don't even review your genre.
T.H. wrote: "I don't see any way this could possibly work out well. Anyone who opts in would be flooded with requests and it would overwhelm everyone. There are far better ways to reach potential reviewers. Goo..."I think it could work out extremely well for readers. It would raise author awareness that they aren't the only author looking for reviews, which seems to be part of the problem at this point (how many times have I seen an author get mad because they are convinced that their review request isn't spam since they are offering a "free book" and they can't understand why not everyone sees this as something desirable? Answer: dozens if not hundreds). It would limit spam because review requests not going through the review request system would be clearly identified as inappropriate and spammy and GR could take action against offending authors who refuse to play by the rules of engagement.
With regard to your second paragraph, the problem is that brand new authors often don't do their legwork. They ignore the review guidelines that readers put in their profile because they can't be bothered to understand that authors, review requests and free books are a dime a dozen these days and they are convinced that everyone is waiting with bated breath to get their book for free. A process that assists them in coming to a clearer understanding of their market and how saturated it actually is would be helpful to everyone.
So, you might be right. The people opting in to review requests might collapse under the weight of the requests, which would cause them to opt out. But, ultimately, I'm OK with a system that matches up reviewers who want to receive review requests with authors who want to make them, even if it turns out that there are far more of the latter than the former and therefore the system fails. There would be something valuable to learn from the failure of such a system as much as there would be something valuable to learn from its success.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "T.H. wrote: "I don't see any way this could possibly work out well. Anyone who opts in would be flooded with requests and it would overwhelm everyone. There are far better ways to reach potential r..."Hmmm, if it was an intelligent system that could match readers and authors by genre, it could work. I see your point. I hadn't thought about it that way. There are sites out there that specialize in this already, but don't have anywhere near the reader membership that GR does.
I could see it done the way they do with recommendations. However, to limit the requests, it'd be nice to let the readers mark what genres they accept, so zealous authors who don't fit the bill wouldn't be able to swarm them. Another thing that'd be nice is if once the recommendation is ignored, the person shouldn't receive another request for the same book ever. A button to ignore the author could also be useful.
It could be toggle-able, so that members who are getting too many review requests could turn it off and say "not accepting reviews at this time" or whatever. Then they could turn it back on once they had finished the reviews.
A potentially better way is to provide a way for authors to offer free eBook giveaways (with review requested) on Goodreads. LibraryThing does this and it seems to work well - I offered one a few weeks ago and have several reviews from it.This way, potential reviewers won't get swarmed, they can just peruse the eBook giveaways.
The cost threshold is much lower for authors than the existing print book giveaways, and people could also get their review copy more quickly.
It is important to remember that the vast majority of readers may occasionally recommend a book to an acquaintance, but choose never to formally rate or review any book. Those that do occasionally post reviews do so to share their opinion with other readers, not the author.
Opt into all review requests just sounds unmanageable. Who wants to wade through requests to review books that they would never want to read? Too many authors seeking reviews to do an all or none opt-into feature.I don't think commercial contact should ever be made to member inboxes unless member initiates. Opt-ing into receiving even review requests just asks for requests from authors not even checking to see what you like to read. The big problem being the overwhelming volume of authors wanting to request reviews -- a volume not suited even to opt-in inbox settings/feature.
Better off giving authors a feature where they can post read-for-review offers right on book pages, on author pages, on explore-by-genre genre pages, an official group where moderator insists requests go in correct genre folders (with a nonfiction and fiction "other" folders of course) that interested readers can join, using the hundreds of already existing groups and group threads, etc. Even an official set of threads/folders in this or the author feedback group could work if they kept up with archiving old requests and keeping things by genre/interest.
Better off creating a feature like the giveaways. Where authors specify what book/genre they are offering, interested readers peruse the offerings, interested readers contact the authors for ebook or just get an ebook with a review-required agreement.
Better off creating a section on member profile where they state interests and guidelines for submitting a book for review. Then give authors a way to search the interests and comment on appropriate ones to arrange read-4-review without allowing them to stuff inboxes with review requests.
As to the FTC violations:
It's almost never an issue in consumer reviews of FTC violation or felony consumer fraud when everything is disclosed in the review. Some things disclosed may be against goodreads TOS or review guidelines (ditto for other sites) so review may not be permitted. Amazon and goodreads both allow free-for-unconditioned-review books provided disclosed book was received free for review (any conditions of review or even a blog tour or ARC conditions also have to be disclosed on all U.S. sites with consumer reviews).
Amazon requires commercial reviews to go in the editorial descriptions; goodreads doesn't allow at all. Goodreads allows authors to review (even their own books where goodreads discloses for them that review is from author); Amazon policies on authors reviewing books confuse me. Amazon policy/action on author review exchanges/swaps/assigns is also murky to me. Goodreads, provided properly disclosing the service received (a review of your own book), used to allow author review swap/exchange/assigns -- no longer does (see official staff posts on the subject -- never really explained why but I just assumed was because despite being felony consumer fraud almost none of the review programs/swaps ever disclosed they received payment by service of a review of their own book; no idea if change came because of FTC complaints filed but hundreds of public review exchange groups and programs generating reviews were clearly not disclosing ...).
ETA: Hopefully for clarity. Bottom line for me as a reader: the last thing I am looking for is another inbox to clean out, even if it's free book offers.
Many authors don't spam, wouldn't dream of it and would correctly use any of the proposed read-for-review features. The authors who do spam, try to make commercial use of goodreads and otherwise annoy the goodreads community including fellow authors already make outrageous claims like how it's not unasked commercial content because clearly readers are only here to hear from them about their book (or it's not spam because they, like that much maligned Nigerian Prince and vi*gra salesmen, only sent you one message just like the other 50,237 unfairly spam-tagged authors did) ... some really ridiculous stuff said to justify unasked commercial conactt where I doubt there's any review or other features that will stop them. I really think giving the spamming authors any more encouragement to use our inboxes isn't a good feature nor will they pay any attention to options set like genres/interests because they seem seriously convinced they can do whatever they want to promote their books and bedamned being flagged for spam or violating goodreads no-commercial-use TOS — they're the ones who could ruin it for other authors if read-for-review features are implemented if not carefully done.
D.A.—currently in Readathon mode wrote: "Opt into all review requests just sounds unmanageable. Who wants to wade through requests to review books that they would never want to read? Too many authors seeking reviews to do an all or non..."D.A.
Well done! Your detailed response literally puts forth every reasonable option available to authors and readers pertaining to review requests and clearly explains the potential ramifications associated with aggressively soliciting and purchasing reviews. Regrettably, the very ones who could benefit most from the information provided and should heed the advice included in your comment will probably choose to ignore it.
I absolutely do sympathize that currently it's clunky for authors to try and wade through all the different group stuff to find the read-for-review parts. Spamming isn't the answer; but, another way of connecting willing reviewers to authors would help. I'm for anything other than crap in inboxes and wholesale anything without respect to what types of books reader likes. Until I hear a better idea, I think the best reviews are likely to come from a feature on individual book pages (or an ebook-for-review version of giveaways) where someone could volunteer (most likely to have wanted to read the book and to have friends/followers with similar tastes who would want it read the review/book) or some official group like the Making Connections group or threads like https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group... .
No matter what gets done, the spammers and jerks will find a way to annoy potential readers; that's no reason not to try something. Just a reason to be careful on how implemented and to try at least to stem a deluge of unwanted review requests by trying to categorize/genre/interest/other...
ETA: I don't personally care to read for review, beta read or even ARC via Netgalley/Edelweiss/etc. just because the read gets spoiled for me because I let myself feel pressured (no author has ever pressured me). But, many readers I know do enjoy it. Easier connections would be nice.
Better off creating a feature like the giveaways. Where authors specify what book/genre they are offering, interested readers peruse the offerings, interested readers contact the authors for ebook or just get an ebook with a review-required agreement.D.A., At the risk of exposing my gross ignorance of all things technological, could you maybe tell me how you can put your work up for free on kindle, etc.? Do you have to contact Amazon, or others?
To offer free on Amazon, you either have to be with KDP Select. (This gives you the option to set your book free for 5 days, five consecutive or different occasions. The enrollment is for 3 months.) Or you have to have it free somewhere and have people click the 'seen it cheaper somewhere else' thing so they might match the price.
@Jan, by "Kindle Select" that does mean your book has to go exclusive with Amazon (including any bundles/omnibuses containing.)A slower way not requiring exclusivity is to make free elsewhere then get someone to tell Amazon they need to price match.
https://kdp.amazon.com/select may help. Looks like when enrolling in KDP Select that Unlimited and other features are options automatically turned on for you (like the auto-renew) which you'll need to turn off if unwanted.
ETA: typos. And to clarify, Kindle Select KDP does more than just allow your book to go free for five days, including allowing it to be listed for borrow via Unlimited and Prime KOLL. So several things to think about before deciding to go exclusive; if only seeing sales from kindle edition anyway that could make your decision easier. Caution that Select can auto-renew on you so keep an eye on the settings if not wanting to do permanent. And works better to enter Select if you first remove book from other places for sale and give those sites time to catchup so Amazon doesn't question the exclusivity criterion.
The authors on this thread: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... also talk about some kindle settings, promotions, and even share some of their borrow/unlimited sales data. Need to weed thru just the publicity and promo opportunities but some good data and info to help you decide and more folk to talk to (I'm not an author and have zero KDP select experience).
I've said this on another thread. Many groups have threads/spots for authors to submit their work for review or to announce a book release or a sale, freebie, whatnot. I was impressed to see this, and it showed me that GR people are open to knowing what's going on their preferred genre and the reading world, and learning what new book they may want to read next. When authors join a group, they need to get familiar with it and look for places (if the group creator added one) to list your book. There really is no reason for spamming. As an author builds relationships, it may become a little easier to approach people. And authors forget that moderators are a big help if they don't understand the rules or have questions.
G.G. and D.S.: Can't thank you enough for the info. It is MOST helpful!
D.A.—currently in Readathon mode wrote: "@Jan, by "Kindle Select" that does mean your book has to go exclusive with Amazon (including any bundles/omnibuses containing.)A slower way not requiring exclusivity is to make free elsewhere the..."
Thanks for the link, D.A. Your absolutely right about the great (and copious) suggestions from other authors.
Like the idea of an organized way to find "read-for-review" people on Goodreads. Can this group put up such a thread?
Leonide wrote: "Like the idea of an organized way to find "read-for-review" people on Goodreads. Can this group put up such a thread?"I'd like if authors could set something on the book page itself, on their author page, and groups could set (with a link to relevant folder) for read-for-review, beta reads ... By "set" I mean easy to see and completely searchable for authors and readers who might be interested. Preferably also searchable by a selected genre setting.
That's a "connection" or "community" or "helpful" many would be willing to do without being invasive for anyone uninterested.
Might be fun to add a "care to help" or " random book by genre" tag on hime page in addition to discussions and updates. "Care to help" could show all kinds of book related "want ads" (with optional anonymity) like give an opinion on cover decisionmaking, what genre do you think this cover indicates, what do you think of my synopsis, does this paragraph translate strangely, what does this acronym mean in terms of book community .. "Random book" or "random book available free for review" that would randomly show books with less than a certain number of reviews in genres you read or that had read for review offers ...
Unless interrupting other group activities, spam, interrupting or overtaking update feeds from friends/followed, and overwhelming book data with "visibility" and "promotional" stuff -- I'm all for more optional author-reader connections. I know how many of my reader friends do enjoy read4review (unless has conditions on review), ARCs and even beta reading plus how many of those reviews I enjoy even though I don't participate myself.
I'd much rather more tabs (for book stuff, editorial content, promotions,msponsored ads, etc.) than this decreasing reader connection shrinking feed we currently have where it's hard to see activities you chose to follow with the shorter feed and all the proposed/testing/active other stuff and chains of liked, follows, q&As taking up,so much space.
Members should be able to find the content they want to see.
It is tough for authors to easily find group threads for read4review and such; it's even hard to find entire groups set up for that purpose.
Under the group, Making Connections, there is a place for authors to request reviews (ARR) and it is broken up by genre. For authors who want reviews, they can just post there and those interested reply to them personally.Is this what you mean by a place for authors to request reviews without bothering everyone?
Michelle wrote: "Under the group, Making Connections, there is a place for authors to request reviews (ARR) and it is broken up by genre. For authors who want reviews, they can just post there and those interested ..."No. That's just one of many groups to sort through looking for groups that are for that purpose (nevermind potentially thousands of threads in other groups that offer even though entire group not set up to do).
We were suggesting that there be a way for authors and others to search to see read-for-review offerings. For group moderators,, including groups like the one you promoted, to click option to show their group offers or a thread offers so that would show in search results. For authors to have non-group options like setting on book and author pages. All with the intent that readers and authors could locate/offer the read-for-review opportunities by searching other than how it is now where there are many group offerings and likely many readers not even part of groups willing to do -- but no way to search.
Christa wrote: "1) A member is already free to include this sort of info in their profile, and some do. I've come across it many times.2) Groups created for such purposes are a much better way of finding eager r..."
I agree.
Yes, readers can include in their profiles. Yes, groups can be set up for that purpose and say so in group description. Yes, groups can set up threads for that purpose. Yes, authors can put that on their profiles and make a general update about it to their followers. Yes, goodreads members can make general updates saying they will do read-for-review.No, authors and readers cannot currently search for any of those easily.
I mean, sure, you can look through millions of reader profiles to see if someone mentions and sort through probably that many group threads ... (many groups are genre specific so that helps narrow it down).
James wrote: "Christa wrote: "Gita wrote: "Members being free to include information in their profile and having a mandatory field / flag are, in my opinion, different things."Mandatory? No way would I be in f..."
James, can you share more about your handwritten note and the give away. How many books did you give away. Busy preparing to do one, needing some tips to make it work effectively.
Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) wrote: "Yes, readers can include in their profiles. Yes, groups can be set up for that purpose and say so in group description. Yes, groups can set up threads for that purpose. Yes, authors can put that on..."How do you find the genre specific groups?
I'm finding so much related to novels, fantasy, mystery, Sci-fi, thrillers, but not much of the types of books I like to read or that I write.
Shoshana: in groups, use the search field to enter the keywords that you want to find in the description or name of the group
Shoshanah wrote: "James wrote: "Christa wrote: "Gita wrote: "Members being free to include information in their profile and having a mandatory field / flag are, in my opinion, different things."Mandatory? No way w..."
Shoshanah:
Here are two articles about giveaways that will expand your knowledge base:
a) https://onefourkidlit.wordpress.com/2...
b) http://www.novelpublicity.com/2012/02...
Best of Luck.
HelloCan't find where to add tags Wished I saw this before i created my gift giveaway would have done it shorter and fewer copies.
Can you check it out and offer any suggestions. thanks so much
I'm having trouble finding the giveaway.
here is the link. https://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/sh...That is not a good sign! I had a pretty good initial response but it has slowed way down. Probably because I initially had it scheduled for a month. After reading your article changed the finish date and quantity.
I think you're correct in only scheduling the giveaway for 3-5 and 1-3 books, then rerun it again later on. Generate more interest and keeps your link more visible since it would expire quicker.
I wish I would've taken my own advice....lol I scheduled mine for a month before I figured out what was going on.Anyway, I looked at your giveaway. The only thing I would change is the amount of description you have about the book. Instead I would concentrate more on the benefits of reading the book and any milestones your work has achieved (Top ten kindle eStore performer, 2000 downloads, endorsed by etc....). These two things communicate value.
People can look up descriptions and reviews of the work. They want to know what's in it for them beyond the free signed book.
Excellent job with the BONUSES. That's exactly what you need to be comunicating.
I hope this helps.
what about adding the tags I couldn't find where and how to do that??? can i add with the campaign still going?By the way I did state #1 Amazon Best seller (actually in 3 categories when ebook first released)
I don't see anywhere to do the tags. The only thing I can think of is to go back to your giveaway page, select edit, and then at the very bottom separated from everything else in your description, enter your tag words there.
tried it can't find them most have to do it on the first run through.
I guess we can both chalk this one up to a "learning experience"...lol
Matt wrote: "Shoshanah wrote: "James wrote: "Christa wrote: "Gita wrote: "Members being free to include information in their profile and having a mandatory field / flag are, in my opinion, different things."M..."
Thanks Matt
It is kind of you to share these links. I'll take a look
Shoshanah
Shoshanah wrote: "Matt wrote: "Shoshanah wrote: "James wrote: "Christa wrote: "Gita wrote: "Members being free to include information in their profile and having a mandatory field / flag are, in my opinion, differen..."No problem.
If a member profile has the option to indicate whether review requests are welcome, along with the genre, writers can message them, and both readers and writers will get what they want.
I don't think any other site has this feature. It will be unique to goodreads.