Support for Indie Authors discussion

I'm writing about a 21 year old male in the early 70's, and though it's a fun journey I sometimes feel way, way, way too old for this, so I have a question to all of you to get my inspiration going and get some new angles and get out of my box:

Think back to when you were 21 years old. What was the best with you back then? What was the worst? Would you have liked yourself if you could go back in time and meet yourself?

Doesn't matter if you're a woman. All answers are welcome. It's for fun, remember... :-D

My 21 year old self was so naive. She cared way too much about what other people thought (come to think of it she still does) . She was too nervous to try anything or do anything. I don't think I would like her much if I went back. I would probably slap her upside her head and tell her to live a little.
This probably won't help since you are writing about a guy. I do like to think I would have had way more fun as a 21 year old guy. No reputation to concern yourself with. (Just my opinion here - I may be way off). I also like to think my inner guy would have been kickass and confident. Who knows lol.

I was a teenager in the early 70s. I was inspired by the apollo programme, believed that I'd get into space, and was certain about all the wrong things. OTOH I was right about open source software. I wish I'd kept a school essay in which I predicted the end of the Soviet Union and got marked down heavily for it.

The best: I was charming and witty. I made friends easily. I read a lot. I was faithful to my wife. I was learning a lot about cooking.

The worst: I drank too much. I was angry all the time. I knew it all. I was not challenging myself, pushing myself or expecting more of myself.

I was 21 in 1973, had a one year old, with another on the way. I thought my life was over. lol

At 21, I was on a warship cruising the Pacific and Indian Oceans, and the Persian Gulf. The Cold War was still in full swing, so facing off with the Russians and hoping neither side was going to start shooting was fairly routine. Having a Russian cruiser literally pull up beside you and point a battery of 8" guns in your face really changes your perspective on what's important.

What I remember about coming home is feeling tremendously awkward. I couldn't understand why people my age had such petty concerns, being able to afford a new leather jacket, etc. I just wasn't able to get excited about such things anymore.

I was the worst smart ass when I was 21 and I was going to save the world.

The best: I was in college getting better grades than I'd ever dreamed possible in high school.

The worst: I was a pretentious lit major that drank too much, smoked too much, probably pissed off the waitstaff at my local diners by sitting around for hours with my bottomless cup of coffee and condescending attitude, lived off minimum wage, had roommates which meant arguments and dirty kitchens constantly, I was constantly 'in love' with some undeserving idiot, had an unreliable vehicle, was an insomniac, and had constant panic attacks and thought everyone was going to find out I wasn't as cool as I pretended to be.

Would I have liked myself? Good god, no! But I'd probably feel bad for 21 year old me. :/

A.E. wrote: "Think back to when you were 21 years old. What was the best with you back then? What was the worst? Would you have liked yourself if you could go back in time and meet yourself?..."

21. 1979. Attending college. Had flunked out of Engineering the year before and switched to Liberal Arts before deciding on Art. My first sexual experience: disturbingly mechanical and un-erotic.

I was immature, naïve, and terrified. University confused and scared the shit out of me. I didn't grok (a popular word, which I actually did not use) large institutions. I was suffering from the Imposter Syndrome: felt like I was faking it. Pretty sure I had some amount of ADHD.

My social life, though, did start picking up then. But it was the '70s, which meant certain substances might have been involved. On the surface I was having a great time; inside I was depressed and worried. I chose to ignore problems hoping they would go away, rather than face them head on.

Other good stuff: I started doing college radio DJing (faking it again; I never got a proper broadcasting license because I started in summer school and no one told me I had to, and no one ever checked that I had taken the test). Found a steady girlfriend. Doing art was exciting, and the music I was discovering was amazing. Plenty of bright memorable moments.

It all came apart after that, of course. The good old days didn't start until 8 years later.

Would I have liked me? Yeah. Or at least be sympathetic to me. I know where it all led and things turned out OK. I'm not even sure I would have given him the advice he needed: change schools; VA Tech's not the place to study art; move to NYC.

Thing is, if I did that, would I have ever met my wife? I don't like to think of that scenario.

A.E. wrote: "Would you have liked yourself if you could go back in time and meet yourself?"

I forgot to answer this part. Umm... I'm not sure. I probably would find my younger self to be an annoying, drunken jerk.

Charles wrote: "I was the worst smart ass when I was 21 and I was going to save the world."

I was a smart as too but I didn't think the world had a chance in hell of being saved.

Hmm...Not much has changed since then. ];P

Dwayne wrote: "I'm not sure. I probably would find my younger self to be an annoying, drunken jerk."

We would have definitely been friends. Loud, obnoxious, drunken friends that probably would have thought nothing of stealing road signs while arguing the literary merit of Vonnegut's work.

Christina wrote: "We would have definitely been friends. Loud, obnoxious, drunken friends that probably would have thought nothing of stealing road signs while arguing the literary merit of Vonnegut's work. "

Ha ha! I don't think I'd discovered Vonnegut, yet. I was aware of him, but had not read him, yet. At that age I was just starting to transition from Stephen King* to real writers -- starting with John Irving. But, we could have hung out in the redneck bar I got drunk in every night and pissed people off by badmouthing Elvis.

*I will never, ever forgive Stephen King for "It". I loved him until that "book". That was the worst ending of all time. Bleh.

Dwayne wrote: "I was just starting to transition from Stephen King* to real writers -- starting with John Irving. But, we could have hung out in the redneck bar I got drunk in every night and pissed people off by badmouthing Elvis...."

Let's not badmouth Elvis. I saw him in Walmart yesterday, and he was looking well for his age. And given that he's been dead for these last 40 or so years...

Dwayne wrote: "*I will never, ever forgive Stephen King for "It". I loved him until that "book". That was the worst ending of all time. Bleh..."

Now it makes me glad I never finished reading it (or should it be It?). One of the rare books I could not finish. When I was younger I read anything and thought it was a waste not to finish what I started. So it says a lot about how I felt about that book.

Ok to answer the question.
Good: I wasn't afraid of making a fool of myself and would try about any sport. I was outgoing and speaking to everyone, making friends easily. I became a mom at 21 but it didn't change me. Slowed me down a tiny bit but not much. It just turned my son into a mascot. :P

Bad: I said everything that came through my mind. If something bugged me, I would let people know. I would not weigh my words before I spoke or try to soften the blow. I was all 'bang'; it's out. (Funny thing is that it never ruined any friendship so maybe it wasn't all that bad.)

Ken wrote: "Let's not badmouth Elvis. I saw him in Walmart yesterday, and he was looking well for his age."

Oh, I don't anymore. I love Elvis now. I went from being a Beatles man to being an Elvis man when I was in my late thirties. My 21 year old self hated Elvis.

Elvis hit when I was a preteen, so of course I was into the music and the attitude. The Beatles not so much at first, but they grew on me. Eventually became a big Steppenwolf/Led Zeppelin fan. Still am.

Okay drinking in a redneck bar I could do, but 21 year old me was definitely a precursor to the modern hipster, so she would have liked Elvis because everyone else was way more Beatles. She still would have thought stealing road signs was a good idea. Especially the one for Christina Ct. that she never managed to unbolt... O_o

A.E. wrote: "Would you have liked yourself if you could go back in time and meet yourself?"

Yes, I would say NO! NO! NO! Don't do it!

Christina wrote: "Especially the one for Christina Ct. that she never managed to unbolt... O_o "

LOL That would have been a priceless artifact to possess and exhibit!

Christina wrote: "Okay drinking in a redneck bar I could do, but 21 year old me was definitely a precursor to the modern hipster, so she would have liked Elvis because everyone else was way more Beatles. She still w..."

Actually, I think you would've been way more into Dylan.

Ken wrote: "Okay drinking in a redneck bar I could do, but 21 year old me was definitely a precursor to the modern hipster, so she would have liked Elvis because everyone else was way more Beatles. She still w..."

Actually, I think you would've been way more into Dylan. "

Whereas 21 year old wasn't into any of those. Elvis (as Bobcat Goldthwait put it) was "a fat dink." The Beatles were over hyped commercial pop (even though I secretly liked a few of their songs). And Dylan was a poser and a one of the chief perpetrators of the Folk Scare of the '60s.

German electronic music was where it was at, that and the New Wave/RIO/Art Rock. Though I was still hanging on to my prog rock at the same time.

Redneck bars? Never. **shudder**

Okay never mind what I said about being the precursor to a hipster. That was Micah. ;p

(Is it okay to admit that I'm not a fan of Dylan or any folk rock really?)

Christina wrote: "Okay never mind what I said about being the precursor to a hipster. That was Micah. ;p

(Is it okay to admit that I'm not a fan of Dylan or any folk rock really?)"

Nah, I was never trendy enough to be a hipster. They're very much into being in their scene, just like the Disco crowd was back in '79. And they were just silly.

I've never been a joiner. Ever since I was about 10 I rejected any music that aired on commercial radio as fundamentally suspect (I've changed my mind many times about specific bands, but still have that mindset). But I also mistrusted "movements" like the hippie/flower children of the '60s, Goths, Metal heads, Punks, New Agers, Grunge, Hipsters, etc. It's all just trying to fit into self-styled cliques. "We're not like the Norms out there; we're different. So we dress alike and listen to the same bands and hang out together."

Wouldn't you like to be a Pepper, too?

Pssst! Micah!
...

...

...

(That's what hipsters say too!)

Rides away on an ironic unicorn

Except they do all dress alike.

And I've had my (very short) beard since about...oh...1979.

Micah wrote: "Elvis (as Bobcat Goldthwait put it) was "a fat dink." The Beatles were over hyped commercial pop (even though I secretly liked a few of their songs). And Dylan was a poser and a one of the chief perpetrators of the Folk Scare of the '60s....."

So, no Elvis, Beatles, or Dylan...pretty odd things to say about six people who revolutionized music.

Maybe you'd like one of the Bubblegum bands?...

Pretty much anything on the American Graffiti soundtrack was my jam when I was 21.

And the Ramones. The Ramones will always be my jam.

Things being my jam will always be my jam too.

Mmm...jam.

Ken wrote: "Maybe one of the Bubblegum bands?..."

Those all predate my "no commercial radio" days.

In '79 I was listening to:

Klaus Schulze
Tangerine Dream
Kraftwerk
Vangelis
Jean Michel Jarre
Heldon
Sensation's Fix
Talking Heads
Devo
The Stranglers
The Residents
Camel
Yes (they didn't get much airplay where I lived)
Brian Eno
Philip Glass
Terry Riley
Steve Reich
...and just starting to realize that Hendrix, The Doors, and some other older music really did have merit. Not that I ever really got into them totally.

Oh, '79 was also the year that I realized Pink Floyd had gone sour after their 1975 Wish You Were Here album.

Christina wrote: "And the Ramones. The Ramones will always be my jam."

Yes. Yes. Many times yes.

And I do like Dylan, Elvis and the Beatles. I've always just liked what I like and never really gave a shoestring what people thought or if it made me a Norm or a poser or whatever.

Got laughed at in high school for liking Boy George.
Got laughed at in college for liking Herbie Hancock.
Got laughed at later in life for liking Public Enemy.

Whatever. It's just music. If it speaks to me, I listen to it.

As far as I know, of those you listed I've heard only two and didn't like either of them. In '79 I hated music generally, and listened mostly to Southern Rock. And, oddly enough, Donna Summer. I like me some outlaw music. And Johnny Cash. As Sly Stone said, different strokes for different folks.

Micah wrote: "In '79 I was listening to..."

Good stuff in there. I've always been a fan of Talking Heads and Devo. I like Kraftwerk quite a bit, too. Oh and a big yes to Yes.

Micah wrote: "Oh, '79 was also the year that I realized Pink Floyd had gone sour after their 1975 Wish You Were Here album."

I might then be the only person on the planet that liked The Final Cut.

Being 21 sucked. I graduated from college, was living off the change I could find in the street (I averaged ~$1.50 per day), and this guy was trying kill me. (I slept with a rifle.)

Overall, that's a year I'd like to forget.

Would I have liked myself? Yeah, I would. That kid learned a lot, survived, kept it (mostly) together, helped someone at considerable cost who wasn't ultimately worth it, bought a house three years later, got married and went on to make a whole raft of new and different mistakes.

I still do. Maybe he and I are closer than I sometimes think.

Ken wrote: "As far as I know, of those you listed I've heard only two and didn't like either of them. In '79 I hated music generally, and listened mostly to Southern Rock. And, oddly enough, Donna Summer. I..."

I'd usually put on The Residents whenever someone in my dorm blasted Southern Rock. It taught them to stay away from me. Not because I was threatening, but because they simply couldn't process what I was about.

Donna Summer became famous on the electronic music of Giorgio Moroder. Strip away the vocals and and you'd have something very similar to things I would have liked. But if you look up the bands I listed, there's a wide range of sound and emotion. Everything from academic minimalism to proto-techno to post-punk to ambient and some stuff that later got (mis)labeled as New Age, and some that was just plain weird avant garde rock.

Christina wrote: "I might then be the only person on the planet that liked The Final Cut."

Ha! No, actually my long-term music collaborator liked it...but, then he likes Disney and almost all pop music.

So...sorry for the big derailment.

Lesson learned: Everyone is REALLY into music when they're 21.

Owen wrote: "...and this guy was trying kill me. (I slept with a rifle.) "

Okay come on, Owen,you KNOW BETTER than to leave us with a breadcrumb like that! We demand a story!

Okay, this is so awesome. Love all your stories. Got to put my own story in here too.

At 21 (this was 1992) I had just met the young man who would become my boyfriend for eight years. I had realized that no one took a young woman seriously if she didn't have any education, so I had started taken adult student classes to get my high school degree. Regarding all damn shit I'd been through in my life at that point, I was a very damaged person, with one bright goal before me: I was never ever going to let life crush me. And no, I would not like myself if I could go back, but I have a lot of understanding and sympathy for the person I was back then.

And I second Christina: Owen, you can't just say something like that without giving us something more. :-D

And speaking of music, those were my hard rock and synth days... Depeche Mode, Iron Maiden, AC/DC, young Alice Cooper, Led Zeppelin, Kiss, The Mission UK, Queensrÿche..

The music I grew up with was the Rock and Roll of the late '50s. If you were a teen or a pre-teen then you listened to Elvis, Buddy Holly, Jackie Wilson, Fats Domino, Ricky Nelson, and Ray Charles. The second string was Brenda Lee, Richie Valens, Gene Vincent (Be-Bop-A-Lula was an anthem), Carl Perkins, Roy Orbison (who transitioned into a first-stringer by 1960), and Eddie Cochran. Brings back old, OLD memories. And I know some of the folks around my age will disagree on at least a few of these, and maybe add more.

Ken wrote: "The music I grew up with was the Rock and Roll of the late '50s. If you were a teen or a pre-teen then you listened to Elvis, Buddy Holly, Jackie Wilson, Fats Domino, Ricky Nelson, and Ray Charles..."

Well, yeah. In the '50s that was all very radical stuff. New and exciting. I learned to like Buddy Holly and some of that other stuff in the mid '80s. Early Elvis was actually good, I see that now.

But growing up in the '60s and '70s we didn't associate Elvis with that old stuff. He was the fat, sad Vegas act. The old guy trying desperately to stay relevant.

Everyone's perspective is tainted by the environment they grew up in. We tend to see things in relation to where things were when we were in our formative years. It's only later if we take the time to investigate and learn that we come to appreciate things as they were before our times.

I fell in love with '30s swing music in the '90s, when the modern music world seemed really boring and derivative. Learning about swing and jazz's evolution when other forms of pop music became insurgent (like the whole rockabilly and rock genres) made me understand and appreciate the be bop movement.

Christina wrote: "Owen wrote: "...and this guy was trying kill me. (I slept with a rifle.) "

Okay come on, Owen,you KNOW BETTER than to leave us with a breadcrumb like that! We demand a story!"

Good hook, huh?

I met an couple thru some mutual friends when I was 20. We hung out in the same social circle and were friendly. They both tended to drink too much. Then the husband started doing coke and got fired. Then he started roughing his wife. After he popped a couple of floating ribs, she fled and went stay with girlfriend of hers, who also a friend of mine.

The husband started sniffing around, calling people, making up stories in an attempt to get an idea of where his wife was. He was a salesman and capable of considerable charm when he wanted to be.

Some mutual friend called the wife's GF and warned her the husband was sniffing around. The GF called me and said she was afraid to have the wife staying with her -- could I help? I went, picked up the wife, and brought back to my place.

Word got out, certain assumptions about our relationship were made. He started sabotaging her car at work and lying in wait. One night, he made a determined assault on my door, while (apparently) armed. The cops wandered by and took a report. (They made the same assumptions everyone else did.) I was in no position to move just then. He made a few more attempts to "settle the score", including one at a public event he followed me to.

After a few months of this, we were able to move and since no one would talk to him at this point, he efforts to track us down came to nothing. I believe past sins may have started to catch up with him (probably due to the ruckus he'd caused) and he split out to town. We spent a few tense months and things blew over.

"And that's how I spent my summer vacation."

Micah wrote: "But growing up in the '60s and '70s we didn't associate Elvis with that old stuff. He was the fat, sad Vegas act. The old guy trying desperately to stay relevant...."

Just one correction: Elvis didn't get fat until the mid-'70s, a couple of years before his death, and it was probably the drugs he had to take in order to deal with his isolation. Fame does that. I didn't really like much of what he did after the '50s. Like Johnny Cash and Jerry Lee Lewis, his best stuff was with Sun Records. He wanted to do better, and especially hated those stupid movies, but blame Colonel Parker for his failure. Elvis was a big spender, and generous, and Parker took advantage of his financial difficulties to keep him commercial and lucrative. Innovation was gone.

Can I just ask when forty anything became old???

Sheesh!

And may I add: Damn Owen! That's straight out of a country & western song!

Micah wrote: "Everyone's perspective is tainted by the environment they grew up in. We tend to see things in relation to where things were when we were in our formative years. It's only later if we take the time to investigate and learn that we come to appreciate things as they were before our times."

There's definitely some truth in there. Experience teaches, and appreciation often requires some distance.

The question is: If you could go back and give your younger self some advice, would your younger self have listened?

Jay I knew a guy who described that same confrontation with the Russian warships. He made it sound very intense.

I would love to have a saved game and restart at twenty. It all contributes to who you are today. Personally, I'm content with that, however not so much the conditions I'm working through.

G.G. ...It just turned my son into a mascot.

Maybe I’m twisted, but it made me laugh.

Christina wrote: "Can I just ask when forty anything became old???

Answer: When forty something is more than 20 years older than you.

Elvis was 23 years older than me. I think at every part of my life someone 23 years older was 'old.' I mean he'd be 80 today. That's old. ];P

Micah wrote: "Christina wrote: "Can I just ask when forty anything became old???

Answer: When forty something is more than 20 years older than you.

Elvis was 23 years older than me. I think at every part of my..."

I can be so mean here... ;p